Poll

Who would win?

Admiral Bosch and the Neo-Terran Front
31 (50%)
Admiral Thrawn and the Galactic Empire
31 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: March 08, 2003, 01:20:24 am

Author Topic: Thrawn VS. Bosch  (Read 12997 times)

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Offline Cannikin

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Quote
Originally posted by Bri_Dog
To those argueing the affects of a 200GT turbolaser blast:

The force of the weapon does not act like a bomb, it channels it's energy into one point. So the example of hitting Curscant with a stray shot and wiping out part of the city the size of Alaska is wrong :)


You know, I was hoping you would say that misconception. :p First of all the energy of a nuke propogates from a very small area. The energy released is almost entirely thermal energy (the rest being high energy radiation like gamma rays), similar to what a laser would do.

Now if anything, a turbolaser with the power of 200GT would do MORE damage than a 200GT nuke, because ALL of the energy would be converted to thermal energy. Oh wait, 200GT is the puny transport guns right? So, 800GT.

Just to illustrate how this works:

A nuke releases an unimaginable amount of thermal energy. This heats up the air immediately surrounding the release. This obviously heats the air up to hundreds of millions of degrees, turning all of it into plasma. This effect is seen as the "fireball." This ball expands incredibly rapidly. The air outside the fireball is also heated and expands at an insane rate, producing the subsequent shockwave and blast (overpressure front), which does by far the most damage.

Now, turbolaser (providing a conveniant 800GT output of energy) hitting the ground would be a disaster beyond human imagination. First of all, while burning through the atmosphere, it would heat up the air to billions of degrees (comparable to a supernova) would cause a sudden expansion of the air so rapid that first of all, it would create a sound shock that's basically thunder (caused by the air being heated up to 10,000 degrees by lightning) x 1,000,000, shattering virtually all non-flexible material for hundreds of miles. Then the wind would be so strong that you wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Imperial Palace fly by.

Next, after it hits the ground the rock on the surface would immediately expand into a plasma fireball, like a nuke, because if the footage is to be believed in Star Wars, the energy is absorbed very rapidly, so it would end up vaporizing everything anywhere close to it.

But most of all, the worst damage would occur from where the turbolaser bores into the ground. The rock is also heated to billions of degrees and expands at insane rates. But this is a solid material, rather than a gaseous substance, so the result is FAR more catastrophic. The expanding and superheated plasma expands and utterly shatters the surrounding rock. This would create both gigantic cracks bursting through the crust of the planet shooting out ultra high-speed, billion degree plasma throughout the area. Then after that, a huge seismic shockwave such that humans have never imagined occuring would propogate under the surface. This shockwave, being relatively shallow beneath the surface would create even more shattering of the crust (think taking a sandbox, and doing a whip motion). And since the wave moves through a solid material, it is transfered very far and quickly, ripping apart all foundations and structures, as well as natural landmarks (mountains etc.) for hundreds if not thousands of miles. Oh and I almost forgot that the shockwave would also cause any tension in the rocks to be released causing even MORE earthquakes.

And that's from ONE shot.

Quote
Originally posted by GrandAdmiralAbaht

Thats why Courssucant and almost every other planet has something called planetary shielding , it prevents such a disaster. And starships with massive 200 GT weapons have something called sensors and targeting systems. They prevent any stray shots from ever hitting planet in the first place.

And who ever said the insides of the Trader Federation freighter were made of Durasteel? Only the outer hull is made of it.

And we clearly see an example of SW capship acceleration when the Imperial Fleet comes out of hiding from behind the far side of Endor and cuts off the rebel fleet. This flet, made entirely of Star Destroyers, came so fast that rebel ships only detected them once they had already been cut off. And don't say that the fleet hyperspaced there cause the DS had gravity wells online and the mass shadow of Endor would prevent the fleet from jumping from once side of the moon to the other and the Emperor clearly states that the fleet went to the far side of the Endor. It takes a hell of alot of acceleration to wrap around a huge moon in less than ten seconds!


Next, as I was saying, no matter WHAT durasteel is, it WILL be vaporized. Not only would all materials in the universe be disociated into plasma, but even the EU would verify that as well. Take the book Dark Apprentice for proof (a book that incidentally refers to the Star Destroyer "planet slagging"). In the end, Admiral Daala's SD's got vaporized in a fraction of a second by the supernova. However, at the distance they are from the star, the temperature of the expanding shockwave has cooled to a mere few million, or even down to the hundreds of thousands of degrees. The surface area of the back of a fleeing SD is quite small so the total energy absorbed is most likely FAR less than the energy in ONE turbolaser shot (remember, a "primitive" 10MT nuke could form a fireball 3 miles in diameter, 3 times larger than a SD on its long side, inside which everything was vaporized). But of course turbolasers act on an exceeding small area (1-2 meters in diameter) yet the amazing shields and "durasteel" shrug them off like stinging flies.

So, in otherwords, if durasteel and shields were so amazingly powerful, the Imperials inside should've just sat on the bridge with sunglasses and a cool glass of lemonade during the supernova laughing at Kyp Durron's pitiful attempts to blow them up.

As for the whole 3500G's thing, see my above comments about inertia. Besides, even if there WAS such a mysterious material as to render inertia a moot point, the people INSIDE still have inertia and so are you gonna make them swallow that special material as a daily part of their diet? Otherwise SPLAT! Oh and whenever the people are punched in a fist fight, they also splatter into a gooey mass on the walls (as well as the puncher himself because of Newton's laws... oh wait, I forget, Newtonian laws don't apply).  And of course as I pointed out above, if inertia is virtually 0, then the slightest touch should've blown the ships away (space dust, solar wind, a frustrated stormtrooper beating on the walls because he was just demoted, etc.)

Oh and if they can accelerate to that high, why don't they "fly around in circles singing Can't Touch This." Obviously the enemy turrets can't possibly track you going at 16,000kph (which only takes half a second to reach accelerating at 3500G's) which would let you circle around the width of a SD about 2-3 times a second. See how slow turrets turn in ANH? Some of them are even human manned. That'll be quite a whiplash trying to keep up with em. But the people in the spinning ship could circle it so that one side's turrets always face the SD blasting away. But you see in RotJ, the Neb. B. Frigate going at a lazy pace along side the SD going at no more than 10kph...

[Starshiptroopers]

Would you like to know more?

[/Starshiptroopers]

:thepimp:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2003, 03:14:13 am by 783 »

 

Offline Warlock

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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Cannikin


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Offline Cannikin

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


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Offline Galemp

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:lol: It is a rant, but quite true.

Turbolasers are not that high powered. Superlaser on the Eclipse, yes, but not a mere turbolaser. Debate this any more, Abhat, and you're going to look even more ridiculous than Cannikin here.
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Offline Styxx

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You know, now I'm curious. What book is this where a Star Destroyer is vaporized by a supernova? Was the Star Destroyer fully shielded and undamaged? Did the supernova have any "special" properties or some such?

Just wondering... Seems like something warsies would want to forget about. :D
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
Just wondering... Seems like something warsies would want to forget about. :D


Heheh - matter of fact, it was my least favorite SW book (trilogy, actually) of them all so far. The Jedi Academy Trilogy, and the book is Dark Apprentice, I think.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Cannikin

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Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
You know, now I'm curious. What book is this where a Star Destroyer is vaporized by a supernova? Was the Star Destroyer fully shielded and undamaged? Did the supernova have any "special" properties or some such?

Just wondering... Seems like something warsies would want to forget about. :D


If you must know... it was at the very end of Dark Apprentice, second book in the Jedi Academy Trilogy. It was the Basilisk and had just left a battle over Calamari. As far as I see in the book, the SD was untouched in the battle, so it was at full hull strength and shields. And it went POOF! :)

Now, admittedly it was seven supernovae, but by calculation (according to the erroneous and vastly overpowered values of turbolaser power), that shouldn't have made a difference on the shields. Also the simultaneous explosions would have interfered with each other. And by geometry, no matter how the stars were arranged in relation to each other, each wave would hit the SD's seperately, each several minutes, if not hours apart, so it was one wave that reduced the SD to floating microscopic particles.

Meh, I'm tired. Anyone wanna take over ranting now? ;)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2003, 08:35:51 am by 783 »

 

Offline Styxx

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Is there any indication of the minimum distance the ISD was from the supernovae (let's assume they all hit at the same time to be conservative)?
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Offline Cannikin

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Um, there's no real indication, except that they were about to go to hyperspace when Kyp Durron stalled em. So, since they can't go in the gravity well of something large (even just a small planet) I assume they were VERY far away as 7 Blue Giants orbiting around each other would create a HUGE gravity well.

 

Offline Knight Templar

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Offline Sheepy

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Neither would win. A) Thrawn is long time dead and B) Bosch isnt born yet :D
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Offline TopAce

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Noghries would murder Bosch. Thrawn had a larger force.
Thrawn would win.
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Offline Liberator

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Bosch has beams and missiles and can trick the GTVA into deploying the Collosus to solve what should have been a short lived regional event.  This of course ignores the point that Bosch, for a short period of time anyway, had Alpha 1 under his command.
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Offline Galemp

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Nnnnnoooooooo! I forgot to give the poll a timeout!

Ah well. 'Tis a good poll.
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Offline Petrarch of the VBB

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'Tis a fine poll, but sure 't has run its course?

In other words, the next time I see such a heinous example of thread-exhuming (unless committed by me), I shall personally throw my boots out of the window, in the hope that they hit a passing optometrist.

 

Offline TopAce

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We are trying to compare two different universes once again. This is a problem in SW-C, too, when people ask: Which would win? The 17.6 km long SSD(which is only 8 km long, but somebody modelled it 17.6 km long, it's not an option now), or the 6 km long Colossus, which has beams?

Otherwise, if Bosch and Thrawn faced each other, Thrawn(ok, his spies ;)) would certainly stole the specifications of the beam cannons and arm his stardests with them.

As for fighters, I don't know which does more damage to the another side, the Prometheus S, or the very rapid fire imperial laser cannon. We cannot know it for sure.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
...which is only 8 km long, but somebody modelled it 17.6 km long...


It IS 17km long. That's the way the SSD was in TESB, so its proper size is 17.6km. West End Games created the 8km myth. Canon material always takes precedence over EU and the games.
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16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
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16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline TopAce

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OK, the SSD Executor is 12.6 km long, others are only 8 km. And always the official, canon info wins, and all know it as 8 km long.  :ha:

Have a visit at the 'Questions' thread at the SW-C forum.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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No, the MOVIES win, and since the SSD was 11 miles long in the MOVIE, it is 11 miles long becasue the supreme canon (the movie) says so.:ha:
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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