[Trivial Psychic]

Howdy All:

Ahead of time:

If this is already implimented in FRED2 Open (can't use it yet, long story, check my other thread), just disregard this thread.
If it can't be done or its way too difficult to impliment, thanks for telling me, don't concern yourself with it.
If it hasn't been done, and its rather easy to impliment, I think there's more than one person out there who would appreciate being able to use this... myself included obviously.

I've had difficulties when trying to dock 2 things to a ship with more than one dockpoint.  I never understood the problem until I remembered the list under the "Initial Status" tab in the ships editor... it only allows one object to be docked to a ship at any one time.  Is there a way to change this?  For example, the Mephisto freighter has four cargo dockpoints... why would you have so many cargo dockpoints on a ship if you could only use one of them at any opne time?  In FRED there would need to be a separate window for dockpoints for those ships that have five like that other Shivan freighter, not the Dis, I can't remember how to spell it... its got 4 upper dockpoints (though only one of them is flagged as a cargo dockpoint... someone should fix that) and one ventral.  There would also need to be a new "ai-undock-x" sexp because the current one is not item specific as it doesn't need to be.  It would also be helpful if said sexpression allowed for multiple entries so that two if say a Mephisto had 4 cargo modules and wanted to drop off 2 of them, you could both of them in the same command (I know that you could just repeat the order with the 2nd module, in the same event, but being able to keep the size down is always a nice touch.

Thanks!

Later!

[TrashMan]

Yeah... Excellent!

I would be cool for a freighter to have 4-8 cargo containers and you blow one by one, toying with the freighter!:devil:

[TopAce]

Just give the initial status for the CARGO to be docked with the FREIGHTER. I think that should work, or as I remember it worked at me.

[EDIT] All hopes for me have been collapsed: It doesn't work.

[FrancisA]

This is actually a long-standing bug which Volition found out about way back in FS1.

I think it was discovered in that mission where two transports evacuate a Faustus science vessel.  In any case, the mission designer mentioned a Faustus and trying to dock two things to it at once, reported a bug, and Adam (I think) tried for a few days to fix it before saying it was simply too messy to fix, and enforced the one-dock limit.  Some of the details may be wrong in my narrative here, as it was 4 or so years ago.  I think this info was originally posted to either the FDL or FUDL, so it might be floating around in their archives.

http://www.descent-freespace.com/ddn/ (see "Mailing Lists")

You'll notice that many of the models (fs1 models especially), especially some of the shivan freighters, have multiple dock ports.  When the models were originally designed, there was apparently no knowledge of this limit.

I do remember uncovering a very unusual bug (in FS1) involving these dock limits when trying some combination of docking multiple transports to a Fenris.  I think it involved having one transport initially docked, and then having another one dock and undock.  (I really don't remember the details...)  In any case, when some combination of docking-related things had occured, the fenris went FLYING OFF at THOUSANDS of m/s!  (The first time it ran over my ship, instantly killing me, and leaving me saying, "WTF?"  Took another try before I found out what happened.)  Switching the camera to the Fenris showed the sky absolutely thick with those little debris particles (apparently there is some linear relationship between speed and the number of particles you see.)

So, um, yeah, it'd be really nice to fix this, especially for those freighters that are designed to be docked to multiple cargo containers.

Another idea I had (back in the fs1 days) was to have a jump platform for fighters.  You see, in fs1 (before the last few missions, anyway), fighters didn't have jump drives capable of inter-system travel.  So I thought it'd be nice to have a ship that many fighters would be docked to (like a spine, or something), and would have an inter-system jump drive, so that an entire destroyer wouldn't have to jump in to a system just to deploy fighters.  It's not a carrier, exactly, because its far simpler than that.  I think I-War has some similar thing, but I never really played it, so I donno.

Of course, in fs2 time frame, this is all sorta moot.  All the ships can do inter-system jumps now.

(Hm, that's a whole lotta ramblin')

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by FrancisA
Another idea I had (back in the fs1 days) was to have a jump platform for fighters.  

Rather than a 'spine' like you mentioned, how about a detatchable inter-system jumpdrive module, like the nacelles on a Vulcan warp sled or the stardrive on Obi-Wan's fighter in Episode II? Prolly a bastard to code, but it might be fun:)

As for the multile dock thing, it would be awful nice to see it fixed - I mean an Arcadia or Ganymede really ought to have as many things docked to it as one can cram in to a mission. But to be honest I'd rather see the turret code overhauled first

[Trivial Psychic]

If the docking limitation was fixed, one could also create (or alter an older design) a capital ship with more dockpoints, to help out in missions where you have to invade and capture said ship.  Having marines storm in from multiple airlocks at the same time seems more logical than having several ships taking turns to dock at the same port.

On a similar note, I'd also like to see greater compatability between dockpoints, as in some situations it makes it difficult to perform a critical operation.  For example, we have a mission where you're supposed to intercept and capture a Shivan Mephisto freighter.  The Mephisto has 4 dockpoints, unfortunately they're all cargo-flagged.  How can an allied freighter or transport dock to this ship and tow it out of the area?  I am aware that by scripting a a docking event, you can sometimes evade this type of restriction (I remember Elysiums docking with Shivan and Vasudan cargo in FS original), but I haven't given this a try yet.  I do know however that in FRED, you can't get such a docking to occur as part of a ship's initial status.

Later!

[diamondgeezer]

The restrictions on docking compatibility were lifted, I think, so transports could dock with fighters and so forth.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by FrancisA
Another idea I had (back in the fs1 days) was to have a jump platform for fighters.  You see, in fs1 (before the last few missions, anyway), fighters didn't have jump drives capable of inter-system travel.  So I thought it'd be nice to have a ship that many fighters would be docked to (like a spine, or something), and would have an inter-system jump drive, so that an entire destroyer wouldn't have to jump in to a system just to deploy fighters.  It's not a carrier, exactly, because its far simpler than that.  I think I-War has some similar thing, but I never really played it, so I donno.

Yeah. I think about doing this every time I see the Black Omega transport in B5 (I think it was in Epiphanies) Unfortunatly I can't think of a way to make it work until multiple dockpoints are sorted out.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
.....On a similar note, I'd also like to see greater compatability between dockpoints, as in some situations it makes it difficult to perform a critical operation.  For example, we have a mission where you're supposed to intercept and capture a Shivan Mephisto freighter.  The Mephisto has 4 dockpoints, unfortunately they're all cargo-flagged.  How can an allied freighter or transport dock to this ship and tow it out of the area?  .....

In PCS, you can easily make new dock points.

What I mean in greater compatiblity is that is one of the stupid things in FS, that for example a freighter cannot dock a fighter. Why? I could solve the 'capture a fighter' in RR a quite stupid way, but the details are classified Level Xi. I think this would be good to be fixed again.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by TopAce
What I mean in greater compatiblity is that is one of the stupid things in FS, that for example a freighter cannot dock a fighter. Why? I could solve the 'capture a fighter' in RR a quite stupid way, but the details are classified Level Xi. I think this would be good to be fixed again.

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
The restrictions on docking compatibility were lifted, I think, so transports could dock with fighters and so forth.

IIRC DG is correct. Anything can dock with anything else in FS2_open

[Fry_Day]

Originally posted by FrancisA
This is actually a long-standing bug which Volition found out about way back in FS1.

I think it was discovered in that mission where two transports evacuate a Faustus science vessel.  In any case, the mission designer mentioned a Faustus and trying to dock two things to it at once, reported a bug, and Adam (I think) tried for a few days to fix it before saying it was simply too messy to fix, and enforced the one-dock limit.  Some of the details may be wrong in my narrative here, as it was 4 or so years ago.  I think this info was originally posted to either the FDL or FUDL, so it might be floating around in their archives.

http://www.descent-freespace.com/ddn/ (see "Mailing Lists")

You'll notice that many of the models (fs1 models especially), especially some of the shivan freighters, have multiple dock ports.  When the models were originally designed, there was apparently no knowledge of this limit.

I do remember uncovering a very unusual bug (in FS1) involving these dock limits when trying some combination of docking multiple transports to a Fenris.  I think it involved having one transport initially docked, and then having another one dock and undock.  (I really don't remember the details...)  In any case, when some combination of docking-related things had occured, the fenris went FLYING OFF at THOUSANDS of m/s!  (The first time it ran over my ship, instantly killing me, and leaving me saying, "WTF?"  Took another try before I found out what happened.)  Switching the camera to the Fenris showed the sky absolutely thick with those little debris particles (apparently there is some linear relationship between speed and the number of particles you see.)

So, um, yeah, it'd be really nice to fix this, especially for those freighters that are designed to be docked to multiple cargo containers.

Another idea I had (back in the fs1 days) was to have a jump platform for fighters.  You see, in fs1 (before the last few missions, anyway), fighters didn't have jump drives capable of inter-system travel.  So I thought it'd be nice to have a ship that many fighters would be docked to (like a spine, or something), and would have an inter-system jump drive, so that an entire destroyer wouldn't have to jump in to a system just to deploy fighters.  It's not a carrier, exactly, because its far simpler than that.  I think I-War has some similar thing, but I never really played it, so I donno.

Of course, in fs2 time frame, this is all sorta moot.  All the ships can do inter-system jumps now.

(Hm, that's a whole lotta ramblin')

No they can't - it's specifically mentioned that while the technology exists, it's far too expensive to outfit every fighter with an inter-system subspace drive.

[Hippo]

Originally posted by Fry_Day


No they can't - it's specifically mentioned that while the technology exists, it's far too expensive to outfit every fighter with an inter-system subspace drive.

what part of the post you quoted are you talkig about?

[karajorma]

The nearly last line.

[Lynx]

Damn, I hope this gets worked out. I really would like to see the B5 Raider Carrier with it's fighters docked on the rotating pylons.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by karajorma
IIRC DG is correct. Anything can dock with anything else in FS2_open

Not entirely.  Transports can now dock with fighters and some other things are possible, but not everything can dock with everything else.

[TopAce]

Originally posted by karajorma

IIRC DG is correct. Anything can dock with anything else in FS2_open

I don't know FS_open, I never use it, I supposed that one is not in it.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by FrancisA
Another idea I had (back in the fs1 days) was to have a jump platform for fighters.  You see, in fs1 (before the last few missions, anyway), fighters didn't have jump drives capable of inter-system travel.  So I thought it'd be nice to have a ship that many fighters would be docked to (like a spine, or something), and would have an inter-system jump drive, so that an entire destroyer wouldn't have to jump in to a system just to deploy fighters.  It's not a carrier, exactly, because its far simpler than that.  I think I-War has some similar thing, but I never really played it, so I donno.

Starlancer has a similar thing. The Coalition cruisers carry a few fighters attached to the hull.

[LAW ENFORCER]

SL also has animating stuff (wings) so it looks DAMN cool when the enemy fighters launch