[KARMA]

I have this problem: I got a mesh from XWAUP, they gave me a 3ds mesh splitted in 40 subobjects for a total count of over 10000 triangles.
I made two tests:
in first one, I just glued a light to each of the 40 subobjects and tested in game.
Althought the incredible amount of intersections, the mesh seem working fine w/o clippings, both in 3.55 and in htl build of 10-19-03.
In the second one, I placed all the subobjects in the same layer(converting to dxf), in order to have a mesh not splitted in subobjects.
This is the result:

I have invisible faces (mesh is triangulized), collision problems (mesh is not solid, you can fly through), the light of some polys is screwed (I used only one texture).
What disappointed me is that I was hoping the model to work fine, since the same mesh with the same intersections but splitted in subobjects was perfectly working.
What I'd like to know is: as far as you can tell, it is a problem of too many intersections in the same object, as I suppose?or there could be other reasons?
This is important to know for me, because it could be very useful for our plans, since I would be able to know to wich extent I can import models from other sources (like xwaup) into fso.

additionals:
1-Since voodoo doesn't work anymore with fso 3.55 and higher, I'm using a matroxg200 (don't laugh please ) and althought IIRC HT&L is not supported  by the gpu, the htl build seem way faster (in test one) than 3.55, even on my crappy system...
good job guys:)
2-the HTL build generate some strange effects around the borders of the ship at medium/far distance, it is like if there are some pixels of various colours (yellow and blue mostly) around the borders, while playing it looks like if there are coloured lights on the ship:)

[karajorma]

Originally posted by KARMA
In the second one, I placed all the subobjects in the same layer(converting to dxf), in order to have a mesh not splitted in subobjects.

Ummm. Did that work in non-HTL builds? Cause it really sounds like it wouldn't

[KARMA]

of course it doesn't work, pcount too high for a single object.
But as said the same mesh work if splitted

edit->if you were talking about the method, and not the specific model, this method worked for other ships, both in htl and non htl

[Bobboau]

put the model up and I'll take a look at it

[KARMA]

(pasted from a thread in the modding forum)

Originally posted by Bobboau
try this
this is a very interesting model, do tell how well it performs.
when you get to restructureing it for actual use all the subcomponents of the main hull should be in one group, as should all sub components of any other subobject, if you have a version wich has all the corect UV space and textures I might be able to get it set up for you

The model is part of a trading with xwaup, they give us this model (and darksaber's already textured ones), and I'll use my textures on this and share them: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,18539.0.html
So, many thanks for the offer, but it isn't possible now. Btw  you were extremely clear about what I have to do to optimize the model for HT&L, getting rid of their incredible limit of around 200polys per subobject

I made some tests with your exe, here are the results:

ship with around 10400 triangles, d3d8, 640x480, no specular
test1:
non optimized model (40 subojbects, one texture but two materials, according to pcs)
test2:
optimized model (all the subcomponents merged in one one single object)
machine:
very crap system: pII 400, matrox millenium g200 agp,IIRC 12mb,(vodoo2 doesn't work with fso d3d), 256mb ram

test1
htl build:
model is rendered perfectly
average of 16,5/17 fps with one ship, average of 9,5 fps with two
some collision problems, you can fly through (not always) the ship
non htl build:
model rendered perfectly
average of 4/4,5 fps with one ship, the fps counter doesn't go below 4, so I don't know with two ships
some collision problems, but it seemed to me less than with htl build (but it was hard to test with that choppy framerate)

test2
htl build:
model is rendered fine
average of 14 fps with one ship, average of 7,5 fps with two
weird collision problems! you can fly almost completely through the ship
non htl build:
model doesn't work (poly limit I suppose), it return to desktop after launching mission

general notes:
I'm having in both htl/non htl some blue/yellow pixels around some borders of the ship (I suppose it is the gpu, but I never noticed blue/yellow dots on precedent builds)

In both htl and non htl, sometimes a white square of about..uhh..100/200 pixels borders... flashes in the middle of the screen (I suppose it is the gpu, but again I never noticed it in precedent builds)

I'm not sure but it seemed to me that the flythrough was worse in htl build, and it is surely worse in the test2. Is it related to pof (bounding box problem building the model?) or the game? I also tryed to rebuild twice the pofs, with no changes

Even on my crappy system, with a card that don't support HT&L, the htl build is at least 4 times faster than non htl. I could hardly believe such big result. Compliments!

the non optimized model is rendered FASTER than the optimized one, with a  2,5 fps difference in average, wich is a lot considering the %. That's a bit strange bobbau.

My only concern is about collisions.... Before using this model I'll have to modify it a little, adapting it to my textures. This require time, and I'm not sure I want to spend some hours modifying it and unwrapping it, with the risk of a model that will not work properly in game

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by KARMA

I'm having in both htl/non htl some blue/yellow pixels around some borders of the ship (I suppose it is the gpu, but I never noticed blue/yellow dots on precedent builds)

In both htl and non htl, sometimes a white square of about..uhh..100/200 pixels borders... flashes in the middle of the screen (I suppose it is the gpu, but again I never noticed it in precedent builds)

Great post, very interesting.
Would you be able to provide screenshots for either of the two problems quoted?

[KARMA]

for the white square thing, it was impossible, it just doesn't stay enough, I tryed pressing a lot of times the print screen button, but when I checked the shots, it was present in none of the sshots.
BTW I noticed that it appear only in fast movements with a lot of polys on the screen, when the framerate drops

for the coloured dots, it was hard to take clear shots:
I took em at 640x480, but at full screen you notice more the problem+ the jpg compression cut many of the dots and expecially the blue ones (no matter the compression quality), and since I'm under a yellow light it is difficult to notice the remaining dots.
The dots are not stable, they change as you change point of view
I suspect, for their position, that they are related to light of thin polys.
btw here are the shots:
 


blue line of dots

blue dots (hard to benoticed)

[Bobboau]

that just looks like aliasing, but then again I barly see anything

[KARMA]

yes, well as said the shots aren't good, probably the most clear are the last two.
I should take new shots without converting them to jpg

edit->gamespy server is a bit slow now, you may have to reload images if they aren't shown