Tango, eh? Yeah, I guess I'll have to dig out the disks. Thanks for that. Aldo, where did you get those pics? For, unless there was some miracle and you took them yourself, those look just like the original images I had imbedded in the document. I thought they were lost when I copied and pasted. No matter, makes life easier in some ways.
Okay, on to the stuff:
Volcanic activity doesnt have to do with the amount of water that can be found on the surface of the planet. Look at Io, it’s probably the most volcanic planet known to mankind and theres no water at all. The volcanoes erupt sulfur dioxide, which will then freeze solid and drop back to the ground. The whole surface of the planet is thus covered in sulfur dioxide ‘sulfur snow’ which will make any life improssible. Mars is also an example to see that. It’s volcanic activity is stronger than Earth’s but theres a lot less water.
Io's not a fair comparison. It's smaller (Moon sized) for one, and it's been constantly active probably since it formed around the second biggest gravity well in the solar system. Mars is a better one, but it again comes down to size. Mars is about a third the size of Earth, so would, at best, have a third the amount of water. That and it can be "boiled" off via solar rays and Mars' weak gravity is why Mars has low amounts of liquid. Outgassing is, however, a theory
, but a pretty well supported one. Much like evolution. But we won't get into that.
It could be the result of long life periods, although personally i think in Vasuda’s case it isn’t. I’ll try to explain why.
First, the thickness of the atmosphere is not about the planet’s size. It actually depends on 2 factors:
- Gravity: Depends on the mass of the planet (not it’s size!) – so any planet could possibly handle enough atmosphere like Earth. It depends on which substances the planet is made of, which, in Vasuda’s case, would be a great deal of ‘fluffy’ stuff like sand. Vasuda would probably be bigger than Earth from that point of view.
Agreed. Size is a guess. Mass would be a more accurate term. A small, really dense planet, could have the same gravity as Earth. However, it is hinted at that Vasuda Prime is a reasource poor world, reasources being water and probably heavy metals (iron, nickel, iridium, uranium and whatnot) which are the densest materials we know of without going into things that would really throw this into the realm of science fiction. Low amounts of these metals would actually lower the planet's mass, regardless of size. In any case, all we have to go on is the atmospheric quote, so assuming it's the same size as Earth is as good a guess as any.
- The second factor is the magnetic stability of the Planet. This mainly depends on the moons of a planet. When you look at Earth, the poles are stabilized by the Moon. On Mars, there isn’t a real moon anymore, and for that reason the poles shift a lot faster than those of earth. This will reduce the capability of the planet to retain the atmosphere, and it will also lead to desertification (*hint* Vasuda *hint* ) as the climate will suffer drastic changes as the poles move around.
Uh, where do you get this information? I admit not to know everything (though I do know almost everything
), but I never heard of the moon being a direct influence on planetary development, especially related to the magnetic field. The magnetic field is created by the liquid iron in the core, not how the moons move around. Could you give me a source for this please?
I think Vasuda’s problem mainly was the instability of the magnetic poles (I assume Vasuda is missing big enough moons) which prevented a really stable growth to establish. As a further result of the shifting poles the volcanic activity will rise, there will be a lot of eruptions which will fill the atmosphere with poisonous gases killing the bit of life that has evolved on the surface, and also poisoning the water found on the surface (thus making it ‘undrinkable’ as mentioned in the quotes). The gases of the volcanic activity will then again act as greenhouse gases and even accelerate the temperature increasements on the surface. If you look at a Vasudan you will see that the Vasudan body is specifically designed for surviving in great heat. The body is protected by some sort of scales, with as much surface as possible to lose heat (look how ‘skinny’ they are).
So IMHO it’s nothing like core cooling, but about the opposite.
Again, I don't see where this is coming from. Source please.
the guess work is wrong, i’m afraid. First, I doubt Vasuda is the same distance as Mars, and then – What do we know about Vasuda’s sun? The planet will usually not leave it’s orbit around the sun, either. If there is a trend in a planets behaviour it’s clearly directed towards the sun, as it’s still the fourth planet of the system and the gravity will be stronger than the rotational force pushing the planet away from the sun. Life probably evolved in the youth of Vasuda, when there still were non-poisonous water oceans on the surface. The vasudans would then have developed as some kind of cave beings, drinking the ground water, and only coming to the surface when in dire need to, mostly living in the water caves way down below the surface (maybe that’s why there’s this vasudanswuvfishies trend? ) – The only life that could prevail was fishy- like things in the deep caves of Vasuda, as well as some little desert animals on the surface.
Completely agreed. I have no clue on the type of star. It's a guess to say that it has the same mass as our sun, and seems reasonable at the very least. We just don't know, so I'll leave it at that.
There are indeed a lot of differences between Mars and Vasuda like we get to see it in the Freespace Universe. Most of it is explained above though. There certainly are some similarities but the most things are really different.
Of course there are differences, Mars didn't (as far as we know) give rise to a race that could develop space flight. I was just pointing out that it was probably their inspiration for the design, so a decent place to look at for clues of it's over all nature (look at the pics of the surface, with the large valley like thing, looks just like Mars too me, aside from coloring). Remember, a lot of this is rambling, trying to get things straight in my mind if no where else.
Of course, with my theory this doesn’t work anymore
Instead it would be something like:
Vasuda Prime was formed very much the same way as other planetary bodies. The life conditions soon developed making the planet very hospitable and life friendly. The main life evolved on Vasuda, but soon things were about to come to an abrupt end.
At this point of Vasuda’s history some tragic events took place. One theory would be that one of Vasuda’s moons was hit by a meteor which would destabilize the poles on Vasuda. The other theory could be that they slowly destabilized over the millions of years. Whichever way, the climate on Vasuda was facing drastic changes as the poles wandered around the surface, making deserts where oceans had been. Produced by the strong pole shifts, the volacnic activity rose to an abnormal level. The atmosphere was poisoned with sulfur gases, and the oceans were poisoned, made uninhabitable and undrinkable.
However, life had already developed. And once there is life, it will not easily be extinguished. There’s nothing as durable as life. So the life forms went underground, living in the cooler parts of Vasuda, and using the water and minerals that could be found in subterranean caves. The situation on the surface would be getting desperate. The volcanoes emmitting loads of greenhouse gases, the poles shifting around, and any plants dead. Soon Vasuda’s surface had become a desert, very hot at daytime, and very cold during the night. The Vasudans evolved as a species living underground and only crossing the surface when they had to.
A cataclysm, eh? It could happen I suppose, it's not like things like this don't happen. My big problem is the moon/magnetic field thing which simply doesn't click. It's feesable, but I prefer a much more natural, long term development cycle rather than an abrupt one. It's also easier to prove given the limited information we have, which isn't much. We can use geology and physics to explain most, if not all, of the same events over an extended period of time (billions of years isn't much to a planet) rather than in one big bang.
The water would be, in my theory, be poisonous, and the main Vasudan cities for that reason, would be built underground. Hoewever, when the cities kept growing bigger they could not be kept underground, and so the Vasudans for the first time really moved upwards and started building on the surface. The actual rooms still a bit under the surface, but not really underground anymore. Also, this was the only way to start using space craft.
That last bit was guess work, but if the water 'boiled' away, it would be just as effective to describe the water as "undrinkable." We can't drink sea water, for example, too many heavy salts. But a Vasudan, from a very dry enviroment, might be equiped to handle it quite easily. The Dead Sea, on the other hand, would likely be too much for even them. And Vasudan cities are described as "domed, sheltered, and underground," not just underground. An important point that.
The image shows that the newest vasudan cities were indeed built on the surface as they were so huge in dimensions they literally could not be built underground (also imagine the problems with exhaust fumes, the ground water, etc.) – The life forms on Vasuda would be indeed split in two groups:
The suface inhabitants: Little desert animals that can live in the poisounous gases and fluids, eating each other and ultimatively living of the few surface plants that are left (with long roots going for the ground water).
The fishies (vasudanswuvfishies): The main part of the life forms probably lived in the water caves and rivers underground, protected from the extreme temperatures, poisonous gases and having clear water to drink.
The Vasudans, combining both aspects (theyre very resistant to the influences on the surface, as well as adapted to underground life) will thus have prevailed as the lifeform on Vasuda.
Using vasudanswuvfishies as evidence that they had lots of fish isn't all that supportable, now is it? It's like the headz thing, I seriously doubt Vasudan's collect human headz. They're jokes, nothing more. Still, aside from that you've missed some evolutionarly points. Intellegence is what made the Vasudan's the dominate life form (like us), not their ablitiy to live underground. And other animals would have adapted to the "poisounous gasses and water." They do all the time on Earth, it just takes a while. There are animals living right now where humans can only go in what are basically space suits, from hot, sulfurous pools to deep sea vents. Life can adapt to a new enviroment, life does.
I don't recall twin continents mentioned, could you please post up the comment in FS1/2 with that?
Ceritanly, the Vasudan tech room description from FS1:
"Both of the twin continents of Vasuda Prime are almost entirely desert, and most of the above-ground water is, even by Vasudan standards, undrinkable."
Anyway, if there are two continents, it could be a "Silt Sea" between them.
Silt sea, that's a possiblity. Though that would indicate a relativily flat planet as most of the silt would have to have come from somewhere (mountian streams and the like), which would be further evidence of a geologically dead world, or one where the water is being 'boiled' off. I use quotes because that's not what's really happening, it's that cosmic rays tend to energize molecules like water and blow them out into space (or rip them apart, then it blows the pieces away).
All that we do know, is that they can comfortably operate in a Terran environment. Vasuda Prime might have had a higher CO2 level, or a high amount of inert Nobel gasses.
I would actually say that Vasuda Prime is slightly larger than Earth. Vasudans have more strength than humans (as seen in the outtake of a Vasudan and Terran fighting). The higher gravity would explain the increased muscle mass, and Vasudans are tall to have more skin surface area to reduce heat.
Both possible. I was just guessing on what the planetary atmosphere is like. However, the line in the Freespace Reference Bible does say "nearly the same atmospheric & respiration needs," so the 20/80 mix is reasonable to say the least. The larger Vasuda Prime I discounted due to the my ideas that the planet is geologically dead. The larger the planet, the longer it takes to cool off, so it couldn't be much bigger than Earth or the entire planet would be really, really old. My big problem here is that I can't find a formula to calculate how long it takes for a core to cool. If I could, we might actually make some progress toward an age.
That's a big assumption. For all we know Vasuda Prime's orbit is closer then that of Venus, and there could be a gas-giant orbiting within Mercury's orbit as well as a rocky planet even closer, similar to the setup that a lot of extrasolar systems discovered so far have. (Jovian planets close to the star)
So pretty much, any configuration is possible for the system.
Very true. We don't know the layout. I do seem to remember reading somewhere (and it's late so I won't try to find it right now) that the models for systems like that, with a gas giant close in, don't really allow for many other rocky planets in the system. Here I used the most suitable model, our solar system, which I would guess would be the insperation for it's creation (like the Mars connection here).
The Apsu-Hek if similar to the shape of the Tauret would either be a glider (unlikely due to the lack of large plantlife) or a creature walking on all fours. The reason for this is because it has a very thin profile, and the four limbs are not a setup for flying as seen on Earth. Considering the similarities between Vasudan and Terran physiology, potential evolutionary niches on both planets would be very similar. Without large trees, there isn't going to be a Vasudan "flying squirrel" so the Apsu-Hek is probably on the ground, using its large surface area to cool itself. Flyers also need a high metabolism, and with a barely habitable planet they'd need to be scavengers. Since the Vasudan reconstruction was slow but steady progress as opposed to scavenging the pieces of the VPE, I think the Apsu-Hek being the slow but steady critter on all fours is a better image.
A turtle? Well, that might work. Truth is, though, we have no idea what an Apsu-HeK is, nor do we know the nature of plant life on Vasuda Prime. Your guess is as good as mine on this end, though I think yours might actually have more heft behind it.
In the command briefing image, those are Vasudan ships trying to flee before the Lucifer destroys the city. This assumption is pretty safe to make due to all of the refugees and the evacuation of the system during the Shivan attack. Plus, considering the small size of the command briefing image, and the small size that a flying or gliding Apsu-Hek would need, it is also safe to assume that the flying objects in the distance are large and are also much larger then any flying creature would be.
Yeah, just rewatched the ani. Those are ships, not living creatures. Oh well, it was a nice thought. I could just see huge flocks of these things flying around oasis's and probably Vasudan cities as well, endearing them to the people. When an oasis is destroyed, they'd move on to the next one, like the Vasudan's did when Vasuda Prime was destroyed. The word "diaspora" has a lot of weight there.
Well, sorry if I sound a touch confused, it's very late and I likely won't get back here until after Christmas. Oh, and if you want to discuss evolution and creationism, go somewhere else, thank you.
Later, and Merry Christmas, or whatever.