[aldo_14]

I cannot find a way to smooth subobjects - i.e. objects like turrets, rotating regions, etc.  All I get is a crappy facetted apperance - which ruins ingame-lighting.

I've tried both PCS & Modelviews convertor, but both give the same shading type to the subobject, regardless of map type.

Thoughts?

[Nico]

weird. all the stuff woo converted for me never had that pb.

[KARMA]

that's strange.
I know you are well aware of this, but smoothing doesn't work with PCS, you have to go with autofacet, changing the smoothing angle to what you need, and converting with the last version of pcs.
It is better to set up autofacet in truespace.
I had this problem in the past, when I used smoothing on some subobjects by mistake.
BTW I suppose you already did this, so I have a question:
when you open your model in truespace, is it smoothed or not? If not, does the shadings change when you try to make it smoothed?
I'm asking this because I had a cob in the past with the shadings not working at all: the shadings didn't change even when I tryed to modify them in truespace, it still was looking faceted althought the material was smoothed. I discovered that it was a convertion problem.

First of all you should check if the object has the correct shadings in truespace, and if you can correct the shadings if they are wrong.
If it is ok in truespace, it sound like a pof converting problem
If shadings are screwed in truespace then it could be a file format conversion problem.

[aldo_14]

All the maps are autofaceted in TS (the map smoothing gets screwed up with 3ds import).... so all the maps are autfaceted - I've checked this by reloading the cob.

[Bobboau]

well, I never experienced this problem, I reconverted the Golgotha to take advantade of auto-faceting and it came out fine (with that big giant rotateing submodel in the middle)

[aldo_14]

Well, I can email a copy of the cob is anyone wants a look (can;t put up publicly, tho)..... it has a light glued to the main 'hull' object, could that be a problem?

I actually have this with every ship i convert (i.e. every turret) - whilst it's tolerable with small subobjects like turrets, in this case it's becoming a major problem.

[ryuune75]

I have the same problem a you! Any subobject in the model that is not the main hull is not smoothed in game...

[aldo_14]

I'm wondering if this could be a 3ds import (int TS) problem now, actually.... I just don't know what or how it's happening.

I've tried gluing in various ways (child, sibling, light onto main object, not light, etc), to no avail.  I checked the cob in 3dex, and the smoothing seems(?) fine.

[Taristin]

...are you sure the maps on the subobject are on the middle type of smoothing in TS? I know it's a simple question, and probably he first thing you looked at, but still... Or if else, would you mind if I had a look at it? I can usually fix little bugs here and there with meshes, even though I'm not really known for my modeling/modding...

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
...are you sure the maps on the subobject are on the middle type of smoothing in TS? I know it's a simple question, and probably he first thing you looked at, but still...

First thing I checked.... I'm wondering if the cob conversion (by TS when it exports / imports the file) is somehow 'losing' the connection between faces - the only thing is that I'd expect this to affect the main object as well.  I know that max breaks up the model into segments when it exports to 3ds - in order to support multiple uv maps - although I'm not sure why this would only affect the subobj.  

There is a possibility that the material changes is only being applied on certain faces - Ts is crap at actually using the painfiller tool to replace the facetted with autfacetted materials (it misses half the faces), but I thinki got all of those bits.

Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
...Or if else, would you mind if I had a look at it? I can usually fix little bugs here and there with meshes, even though I'm not really known for my modeling/modding...

PM me your email.

[KARMA]

well aldo, if it does look autofaceted in TS, and if you are sure you can edit the shadings there , then it sounds me more like a PCS problem.
It sound strange instead that while replacing materials not all the faces got autofaceted. Are those faces on the subobjects that remain faceted after conversion with pcs?
Just check an untextured version, paint all the model with a single material, an autofaceted colour.
Other things you may try: use 3dexp (you are already using it IIRC) and export the subobjects individually

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by KARMA
well aldo, if it does look autofaceted in TS, and if you are sure you can edit the shadings there , then it sounds me more like a PCS problem.
It sound strange instead that while replacing materials not all the faces got autofaceted. Are those faces on the subobjects that remain faceted after conversion with pcs?
Just check an untextured version, paint all the model with a single material, an autofaceted colour.
Other things you may try: use 3dexp (you are already using it IIRC) and export the subobjects individually

I'm going to try the 3dex conversion later today... the appearance is not 'faceted' in the conventional sense.  It's hard to eplain, but it's somwhat akin to each face in model being smoothed - but without relation to the other faces.  So it's sort of a non-uniform shading.  I'll try and find a piccy.

EDIT (it's hard ot make clear, unfortunately - this is the 'facetted' area)

It's almost as if ts or PCs is failing to recognise the faces are covered by the same material.........

[aldo_14]

NB:  I tried something, and it appears that the map type does not affect how the object is 'smoothed' - i.e. applying (not auto) facetted maps changes the main object (as expected) to the unsmoothed mode, but has_no_effect on how the subbject appears.

[KARMA]

ok, now you are sure it is a problem when saving your model to 3ds or when exporting the 3ds to cob.
It happened to me with old versions of lithunwrap: with the older versions when saving to cob all the model was faceted and it was impossible to change it, changing the material had no effect at all on how the model looked in truespace. I had to use intermediate file formats and to upgrade my version. It is strange btw that it happen to you only on specific faces on specific layers.
Anyway... knowing how good you are I'd tend to exclude geometry problems:)
Btw you may try to check if there are double verts or if the model is not solid in truespace. It may happen during format conversions, althought it is unlikely using 3ds.
edit: I suppose that in max it looks fine, right?
suggestions:
1-export with 3dexp
2-try to export the subobjects individually
3-try to use some intermediate formats (there may be problems with uvmaps, thought
4-convert back from pof to cob: the newest version tend to save the cob as completely smooth, and verify if the cob is ok this time
5-if you still have it and if it works with your model (if you don't have too many polys to make it crash) try to use the old pcs version that automatically smooth everything, and then convert back it to cob. If it crash, convert the subobjects individually. If you don't have it, I know that there are some guys here that still have it, not sure who, probably vasudan admiral

If nothing of the above will work, upload it somewhere and I'll give it a look

[aldo_14]

Well, so far;

Exporting back from pof to cob then reconverting doesn't work.

Even if both models convert correctly (i.e. smooth correctly, or facet correctly) independently, joining them gives the same fecked up subobject shading.

Converting the 3ds files to cob via 3dex corrupts it on import, flipping every face (as appears in TS).

Old PcS won't work - the model is around 1.5k per subobject.

And, probably most importantly - grouping the objects together without a light - i.e. so they merge into a single object - gives the correct shared smoothing.  i.e. no fubared up msoothing, but the objects are merged.

EDIT - creating a dummy light group (null object, i.e.
0: (nune)
1: main
2: (none)
3: subobj)
 at the top level does not change this - i.e. the first physical subobject is smoothed, the other is screwed up.

At the mo, it looks like potentially a convertor problem.... but it seems a very odd one if I'm one of the few getting it.

[KARMA]

well if you don't need them to be subobjects you can leave em merged, I'm doing it all the times these days, but it is indeed strange the smoothing appearing or disappearing depending by the layer position, as it's strange the 3ds corrupted by 3dex.

can you give me the model in 3ds so that I can give it a look? upload it somewhere and give me a link

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by KARMA
well if you don't need them to be subobjects you can leave em merged, I'm doing it all the times these days, but it is indeed strange the smoothing appearing or disappearing depending by the layer position, as it's strange the 3ds corrupted by 3dex.

can you give me the model in 3ds so that I can give it a look? upload it somewhere and give me a link

I do need it to be a subobj, unfortunately.  

I sent you a Pm with a link to a zip - it holds the 3ds objects, and the last cob / pof I tried.

[KARMA]

I think I misunderstood you when you were talking about changing material not having effect on smoothing, I thought it was looking screwed in truespace but you were talking of the result after the conversion to pof.
It works fine in truespace here, so it's not a 3d file format conversion problem.
3dex also is converting it fine here.
Nonetheless the subobjects get screwed after conversion to pof.
It doesn't look faceted, and the problem is not only on specific faces but the whole subobject, with as you said each single face smoothed like if it is not related to the other faces, inependently.
Now, looking at this weird effect, I remember I've already seen it in the past (vanilla fs2, so very old pcs conversion) with the lods of the tie fighter.
I must verify.
I also don't remember if I considered it a problem, but think no since it was happening on the lower lods, so I never tryed to fix it.
I see two possible reasons
1-the pcs convert the shadings of the subobjects with errors (and it is an old bug since I had it too in the past)
2-it's a modelview's render problem, and the model will look fine in game (have you tested? I'll give it a look btw)

[KARMA]

I confirm I'm having the same problems on models of even 3 years ago, still don't know if it is modelview related or pcs related

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by KARMA
I think I misunderstood you when you were talking about changing material not having effect on smoothing, I thought it was looking screwed in truespace but you were talking of the result after the conversion to pof.
It works fine in truespace here, so it's not a 3d file format conversion problem.
3dex also is converting it fine here.
Nonetheless the subobjects get screwed after conversion to pof.
It doesn't look faceted, and the problem is not only on specific faces but the whole subobject, with as you said each single face smoothed like if it is not related to the other faces, inependently.
Now, looking at this weird effect, I remember I've already seen it in the past (vanilla fs2, so very old pcs conversion) with the lods of the tie fighter.
I must verify.
I also don't remember if I considered it a problem, but think no since it was happening on the lower lods, so I never tryed to fix it.
I see two possible reasons
1-the pcs convert the shadings of the subobjects with errors (and it is an old bug since I had it too in the past)
2-it's a modelview's render problem, and the model will look fine in game (have you tested? I'll give it a look btw)

Yeah, the bug appears in game..... it's a major problem, in fact.  I've had this problem for AGES with LODs and turrets, but it's only now (specifically with spec mapping and no-ambient) it's become a major concern.

I may try and see if cob2pof has a different effect - albeit I doubt it (if it even works.... and I think it's the convertor in modelview, anyways)

Unfortunately I deleted most of my pre-max models, so I can;t check 'em.