Author Topic: [FA] Mission 1 Campaign 3  (Read 6469 times)

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[FA] Mission 1 Campaign 3
Ive Completed mission 1 and am ready to upload it, how do i do it.

Mission 1: Oh ****
Briefing: GTSC Minerva attacked and disabled, Alpha wing flies in and secures the area. After a scan, the GTT Vagabond jumps in and docks. Alpha then fights off five more successive wings, with itermittent transmissions between Alpha 2 and the Vagabond, and command. Vagabond determines Minerva was attacked, but vital data was not accessed(or so it seems), Vagabond undocks, but is destroyed when NTCv Bosch jumps in and destroys it. Command orders Alpha to destroy the Minerva, and a hasty getaway ensues.

 

Offline Goober5000

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You could make a page on Geocities or Angelfire.

Or we could ask the admins to make a subforum and enable attachments for everybody there.

 
i have web space now, had it for years and didnt know, came with broadband:)

Web Page Removed
right click and go to save as etc.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 07:54:41 am by 2094 »

 
Post any comments & errors and since im new if u have any idea how to solve them please post a solution too.

 

Offline Axem

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A nice start, but a few things you'll need to fix.

1.) No Directives, these tell the player what to do if he wasn't paying attention and how much more there is to do.

2.) Off wing names, it'd be a good idea to follow with the standard naming conventions of FS2, using astrological signs for enemy wings.

3.) No delay between waves, use it. It got fustrating when Red wing came out right after I killed them. Also 5 waves is a bit much, you may want to lower it and add another wing. And they always came out in the same spot, which means real easy pickings when exiting. Using the Arrival Location dropbox you can make them randomly come out near something.

4.) Name your messages and events! It'll make it much easier to fix stuff later.

5.) I notice you use an interesting way of making a long conversation. If you feel daring enough, try using the message-list sexp. The key thing to remember there is the delay is in milliseconds, so multiply your second delay by 1000.

6.) Briefing, it could use some more content (and fixed icons). Maybe Command saying they suspect pirates or something.

7.) Debriefing, even if I fail, it would give me the winning debriefing.

EDIT: 8.) loki wing has no leader. It doesn't look like it does anything to the gameplay, but Fred yelled at me.

Then there are some spelling and grammar issues (be luckly I don't go Grammar Nazi on you ;)), and some other stuff I may have missed. But still a nice start. :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 10:26:35 pm by 1840 »

 
here is a newer updated version with some improvements.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~GoulMeister/maps/mission%201%20camp%203.fs2

and i have 50 mbs of web space ;7

 

Offline Black Wolf

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I might end up being moderately nitpicky here, but don't take offence, I really will make for a better mission in the end.
  • There are a few errors in the briefing (unneccesary capitalization, typoes on "once" and "area".
  • The names of friendly ships should be coloured green in briefings (eg $g GTSc $g Minerva) (There's also $r for red and $b for blue)
  • As a general rule, briefings should be at least two or three stages long. Talk about the suspected hostiles, level of hostile and GTVA committment, stuff like that. Just pad it out a bit. Also, it might be an idea to neaten up your viewport a bit (Use Align object in the misc menu to level the camera either parallel or perpendicular to the XZ plane.
  • Wing names should be capitalized, and generally using the standard FS conventions is a good idea (I belive NTF wings are generally named for Zodiac signs, and I personally name pirate wings after colours). You definitely should maintain a single convention for all your hostile wings unless they come from different enemies - here you have a colour, a greek letter (Used for GTVA wings) and "loki" (which, ironically, is made up of Hercs :p).
  • 5 Waves for Red is really too many, and there should be a delay between each wave. As a general rule of thumb, there should be no more than three waves to a wing, and no less than 5 or 6 seconds between each wave.
  • There are grammatical and spelling errors in some of the messages. Running them through a spelling/Grammer checker such as the one included with word should fix some of this, but others need to be fixed by hand (eg. have full stops inserted into them, or be rewritten to sound more natural as the spoken word.
  • You should put mission directives in for the destruction of the hostile wings. It looks like you started to do this on a few, but forget the directives themselves :p. Put "Destroy loki" (or whatever you change the wingname to) into the box marked Directive text for the destroy loki event, and do similar things for the other hostile wings.
  • There should be a destruction message for the Vagabond.
  • The Iceni should probably jump out after it's killed the transport.
  • The minerva should have its turrets and beams locked when it goes hostile or it'll fire at the player.
  • You'll probably want some contingency plans for the sending of messages like Message 12 (ie. those sent by other fighters), especially those near the end of the mission, since you can't really guarantee that fighter wont have been destroyed. Try adding a back up message sent by command, but only if Alpha 2 has been destroyed.
  • This is totally optional, but I find it easier to keep message and event names descriptive and relevant. Makes it easier to find the relevant events/messgaes if you want to edit anything. It's not so bad on a mission like this, but some missions run to 50 or 60 plus events, and things can get very confusing if they're not named neatly.
  • Your wingmen should at least be given initial orders to destroy the fighters and protect the Vagabond. You may need to update their orders (through AI commands) later on in the mission.
  • Your debrief needs at least one extra stage, specifying what happens if you don't clear the hostiles and suchlike, ie. if you leave early. Having a single debrief stage that always fires isn't really enough, even in a relatively simple mission like this.
  • You really should put at least a basic background in. A planet and a few linked nebulae would be all you'd really need, but the lack of a background is one of the most noticeable things I find.


Phew. There may be more, but running through that should go a long way towards upping the overall tidyness of the mission. Many of these (Such as naming events and colourizing ship names in the briefing) are also just generally good habits to get into for any future FREDding you might want to do.

[EDIT]Both Axem and you beat me :) Serves me right for being nitpicky I suppose. Oh well, will download the new mission and have a looksee.[/COLOR]
« Last Edit: September 06, 2004, 11:44:06 pm by 302 »
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline Black Wolf

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OK, a few new things. You directives aren't going to work, but They're easy to fix. Essentially, you need to put them on events that describe the completion of the directive, not the one that initiates it from the players point of view, ala the above example (though obviously you hadn't read that when you made the changes, since I hadn;t posted it yet).

Secondly, Aquarius has no arrival or departure points. I dunno why or how this happened, but it's easily fixed, just flick 'em both over to "Hyperspace". I don;t think it'll affect the mission in game, but it's a good idea to address any bugs FRED throws at you regardless.
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 
Ive Updated the level again, the second link contains the new version.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~GoulMeister/maps/mission%201%20camp%203.fs2

here it is again
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 07:55:49 am by 2094 »

 
 

Offline Lightspeed

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Been looking at it in FRED2open:

1. It's generally not a clean solution like you tied the "Clear Aera" (notice the typo) to the arrival of the transport. There's no harm in linking it to the actual "clearing the area". A clean nice +is-event-true = loki_destroyed would do the job, and the directive would get true when theyre killed, NOT when the vagabond appears.

2. Same with the "protect vagabond" thingy. Link the directives to the actual events, not to the chatter! :p

3. Your messaging system is more complex than it would have to be:

event: Message2:
when-is-event-true = Message 1
event: Message3:
when-is-event-true = Message 2
event: Message4:
when-is-event-true = Message 3

is very chaotic, and most of all, can be simplified by using:

event: Chatter:
send-message-list
-ship
-priority
-message1
-delay
-ship
-priority
-message2
-delay
-ship
-priority
-message3
-delay

5. In the objectives, the is-ships-destroyed-% could easily replaced by a link to is-event-true pointing to the "area clear" event. Same with the protect vagabond.

6. event Message10 will need to be reworked. If the player destroys the Minerva beforehand, or it GETS destroyed, command will not say what it does. You'll need a second trigger for it "If-Minerva-destroyed-AND-has-arrived-delay-Iceni"

7. Directive text "Destroy Minerva" is fux0red up. It will appear right from the start of the mission, which is the first problem. The more apparent problem is, it will get true (blue) when it turns HOSTILE, not when it is destroyed(!). You'll need to create a chained event after the "Minerva Hostile" event, chain delay 0, with the "Destroy Minerva" directive text. It will then appear ONLY when it turns hostile. Add a "is-destroyed-delay-Minerva" to the chained event, and it will get true (blue) when the ship is destroyed.

8. Same problem with the "Enter Subspace" directive text. You'll need a chained event for a proper RTB text.

9. Briefing:
When you set up "unknown" forces, do not use a ship class. The funny thing is, as it is now, when you click on "? Pirates" in-game, you'll see a spinning hercules. Same with "? NTF"
The Minerva is not "friendly" in-game so best to change the IFF for the briefing as well.

10. The debriefing is severely flawed in coding terms. It does not take the Vagabond goal into account at all, so if you get the vagabond killed BEFORE it docked n' stuff you'll still get the success debriefing. The failed stage also is referenced in a wrong way. You'll need to use more SEXPing here, situation calls for lots of "and" conjunctions. If "is-event-true=cleared-area AND "is-event-false=protect_vagabond", etc :)

11. Change the number of extra available ships/weapons in the loadout editor. :)

12. Add a background (stars number, couple of background images)

13. Last but not least: Please. please. Check.... grammar.... and spelling :( :p
Also try to keep things a bit Freespace-ish, especially the command briefing, briefing, and debriefing texts could use a lot of work before they "fit the style of the games". But I think proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation would be a big win already. :)

General notes:
You need to put more structure in your missions. It was rather chaotic, the way the events and things linked together. Setting up dummy events can be pretty useful, and there's stuff you will *have* to use them for. Also, make more use of the departure cues, the Bosch will stay there forever, so it's possible for a player to kill it. You don't want that in the campaign I assume, so make sure it leaves after it's finished its work. Make Alpha wing leave after they're done. Also, unless you use the "near-ship" or "fighterbay" locations for warp-in, arrange the ships in a way that seems natural, instead of a neat "group". ;)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2004, 09:38:31 am by 1317 »
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Offline Black Wolf

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I don't think you're quite getting the directives - make sure you test your mission in game before you post it up here so that you can see these mistakes. Testing is vitally important to FREDding and shouldn't be skimped on.
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
Rarely Updated P3D.
Burn the heretic who killed F2S! Burn him, burn him!!- GalEmp

 

Offline Lightspeed

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See point 7) in my post :)
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.

 
 
Allright ive fixed all grammer errors i could see,
this should be the final release of this level providing no more errors appear

http://homepage.eircom.net/~GoulMeister/maps/mission%201%20camp%203.zip

 

Offline karajorma

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I'll give it a try and see what can be improved. :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline karajorma

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Okay. Still some problems that need fixing. Mostly minor ones though.

1. I'd have prefered to see the messages given slightly more descriptive names. Not a problem for this mission but worth remembering in the future.

2. The NTCv Bosch (I think we decided to call it the NTFg Bosch now) shouldn't disappear as soon as it destroys the Vagabond. Make it a 15-25 second delay. That won't be enough to give the player enough time to take out all 6 engines but it will make it look like the Iceni still has to rechage its jump engines.

3. The Protect Vagabond directive is faulty. It actually comes true when the Vagabond is destroyed. The best thing to do is to change the event to something like

when
-and
--is-event-true-delay
---0
---
--not
---is-destroyed-delay
----0
----GTT Vagabond

When the vagabond is destroyed FS2 will realise this event can never happen and will mark the event in red.

Be careful that you have no events which depend on that directive coming true though cause if you do they'll now fail.

4. The Clear Area Objective is still spelled incorrectly. No biggie but I thought I should point it out.

5. You've invalidated the Protect Vagabond goal as soon as the vagabond is destroyed. The result is that
a) The goal becomes somewhat pointless
b) The victory music starts to play as soon as the vagabond is killed which is completely the wrong time for it.

The loss of the vagabond is a failure and should be left as such (It means you'll hear more the sensible partial victory music in the debrief once the mission is put into a campaign file).

You might also want to add a new goal relating to the destruction of the Minerva and validate it once the vagabond is destroyed.

6. You should have a debriefing stage that appears whenever the player jumps out without authorisation. Check that none of the other debriefing sections are played if that one is played.

7. I found the mission a bit hard actually. I kept getting owned by the fighters. Maybe that's just me being crap :D
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Another new version, i removed all the above errors,

http://homepage.eircom.net/~GoulMeister/maps/mission%201%20camp%203.zip

 

Offline ShadowWolf_IH

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Glad to see that you are working hard to learn this stuff and being a whiny butt about it all.  Does my heart goo to see another fredder learning the things that make it easier and more streamlined.
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