[redmenace]

I have reverted the GTB Medusa Entry. Reason is that I was intending to have the Ship Image on the right hand side of the screen meaning a greater use of space. I would suggest looking at that to see how it is done. As per getting rid of all the stats, well grrr. The numbers quantify things. Just because the tech room says something is fair, it doesn't mean ****. Acutal numbers quantify it. Their things also not mentioned like rotational dampening which is important to performance.

On second note I am going unrevent the medusa, but would suggest two things:
put images on the right next to the sidebar and link to a larger render. When christmas rolls around I will be taking some screen shots in the lab and make thumbnails of them along with the larger images and somehome upload them.

[WMCoolmon]

Most of that stuff is stats directly from the TBL so you might as well look it up.

Mostly I think the wiki pages will end up being used as a reference for campaigns and fanfic, where stats won't be needed or will be secondary to the history.

[redmenace]

Well then whats the point of mentioning top speed etc or any numbers. I think there is a half way point that can be reached. But only a halfway point that makes sense. And can we avoid using tables or at least make them so it is not so freakin ugly?

[FireCrack]

I have reverted the GTB Medusa Entry. Reason is that I was intending to have the Ship Image on the right hand side of the screen meaning a greater use of space. I would suggest looking at that to see how it is done.

Problem with how that's done is we cant upload images to the wiki as it is.

[StratComm]

I have reverted the GTB Medusa Entry. Reason is that I was intending to have the Ship Image on the right hand side of the screen meaning a greater use of space. I would suggest looking at that to see how it is done. As per getting rid of all the stats, well grrr. The numbers quantify things. Just because the tech room says something is fair, it doesn't mean ****. Acutal numbers quantify it. Their things also not mentioned like rotational dampening which is important to performance.

I still find all of the table references distracting and almost completely useless.  The fact that we're specifying afterburner velocity as a vector is sort of the crowning failing of the whole thing, but most (if not all) of those numbers are meaningless outside of the table context.  Max velocity (normal/afterburner, at normal power distributions), hull and shield strength make sense, all of the manuverability mess does not.  Give a rating, link to a page that tells you how that rating was derived (and definitely don't use the ones provided in the tables, as they are often misleading), but leave people actually concerned with any of those numbers to just look them up in the tables themselves.  The last thing we should be doing is making a Wiki entry that's bigger than the corresponding table entry.  If I weren't feverish I would do a sandbox rework of that specific page, and I may yet do one anyway.

Another thing I'll rant on (and for which the Medusa page is especially egregous) is the growth of the table of contents.  Even if you provide the stats, please please please do not make them sub-headers.  The table of contents is over a screen in length for me, and that should never happen unless the article is very long.  I know you can collapse it, but it's going to come up by default for every new user, and it's just too big right now to be friendly to the target audience.

[Wanderer]

I adjusted the tables for the GTB Athena while adding weapon links so would these be any better?

Now please critize the Athena entrys performance section: does it have too much information, irrelevant information or should somethings be added? Any other comments will also be valued. And IMHO the pic (thumbnailed in here, perhaps about 150px?) should go to the middle of the screen so that it wouldn't hinder the sidebar or the table of contents.

Also if this kind of format for the entries is accepted the Techpart should be remade as well, currently it is almost the same data as in ships.tbl. Overlapping data can be quite easily copied to the ships.tbl. Though until it is decided what the format for the entries is going to be like i'll halt the editing.

No matter, i have WMCs countermeasures to be tested...

[WMCoolmon]

Put vet comments in quotes

Make 'armanments' better; denote guns and banks. "2x80" isn't very descriptive.

Max velocity should be 60-75 mps, since you can have speeds in between.

Generally, armanments could probably be cleaner, probably take a little thought tho.

I'm in 1280x1024, but maybe the picture could go to the right of the stats? I don't suppose it could go to the right of the TOC, that might look the best.

[redmenace]

In between the TOC and the Side menus would be optimal.

[Wanderer]

What about the current entry (apart from the pic location)

[Eishtmo]

The Athena entry is actually pretty good.  I like that, though I think the stats should be at the top rather than the bottom, mostly for a more professional look.

Mostly I think the wiki pages will end up being used as a reference for campaigns and fanfic, where stats won't be needed or will be secondary to the history.

I think model builders and table guys will use it too.  A quick, handy reference without actually pulling up the table file itself.  I want to give them the chance to use it with equal effort to writers and campaign designers.

I admit that the way I originally laid out the table stuff was a bit overboard, but mostly it was done that way because, well, I wasn't sure what was important and what was not.  So I put everything in.  Not the best idea, but I figured it could be cut down later.  I think someone mentioned a table for stat comparision, and after seeing the Athena rework, maybe we should invest time in a comparision table.  Something so that the little stats (rotdamp) can get their place to shine without cluttering up the tech entry too much.

What about the current entry (apart from the pic location)

I think, since most of the ship entries are rather small, we can ditch the mini-table of contents.  Picture centered or off to the side of the performance stats, followed by armamments then the discription stuff.  I think it would look reasonable that way.  For ships with FS1 and FS2 weapon load outs, put them side by side ie:

Primary
FS1:FS2
Secondary
FS1:FS2

And just to throw a wrench into the mix, perhaps we should start working on a generic layout for the ship entries so when the modders and campaign builders come in, they can just use a default layout and imput their data (for their own sections, of course).

[Black Wolf]

I quite like the current Athena entry for the record - it's a Good solid template to work from, though it might be better to put veteran comments at the very bottom, under all the actual in-universe ship info.

[StratComm]

I too think the Athena entry is good.  So much mess solved by removing numbers.

[TopAce]

Let's make the Athena template the default.

[FireCrack]

added shipimage template, usage...

{{shipimage|image=<image you want>|caption=<caption you want>}}

..example...

{{shipimage|image=http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/spacecraft/gtb-athena.jpg|caption=The GTB Athena}}

[TopAce]

Great! Good work!

[WMCoolmon]

Let's make the Athena template the default.

QFT FTW.

[Black Wolf]

I did up an Aten entry, which'll be a useful template for capships.

[Wanderer]

I just finished the Terran FS1 era ships but i'm not happy with my turret tables. Does anyone have better idea for the names of the columns?

Also i think that for all the container carrying craft there could be a entry for the compatible containers in the performance/statistics section. And also some entries for fighter capacity & crew numbers. And could there be anything else?

[WMCoolmon]

Swap the 'Standard Loadout' and 'Turrets' boxes would make the info more intuitive, methinks. But it doesn't really matter.

What'd be nifty would be something that you could have the turrets denoted, along with fields of fire, and weapon types. And rotatable in 3D.

[Wanderer]

Well, that would be nice but i do not have capability to do it.. I would rather happy with static pics denoting location of each turret but with my graphical skill even it is more of a dream than anything else. Perhaps screenshots and then finding the turret locations using freds k -key.

btw i put most of the fs1 & 2 ships to the wiki. Only few are still missing (mainly FS2 fighters & bombers).