[Axem]

The NTF showed the ability to infiltrate and disable a major system in the Colossus. If they disabled its weapons during a real battle, the Colossus would be in real trouble.

They could also park an Orion in the Colossus' blind spot and take it out.

[karajorma]

5 seconds. That's all it would take to change the Sathanas into a Colossus and rename the mission to AxemWrong.fs2

Don't make me do it

[Mobius]

Well,in the mission I have attached the Orion takes down the SJ Slaanesh,but near the end it can bring only one BGreen to bear.
The mission is in subspace,so the Slaanesh can turn and fight the enemy.
<please no MobiusWrong>

[Polpolion]

canon evidence shows that ships do not need to accelerate prior to jumping, it is a part of the jump proscess that occurs when the ship is pulled into the portal.


(proven via the tech room info thingies, and in-mission occurances)

Which is strange.. I recall several mission in FS1 and FS2 where ships don' jump out if you disable them.

The SD Tantalus and the other demon in the desarm the Sathanas mission spring to mind.

If a ships drives are disabled, chances are its subspace "drives" are disabled too.

[Hippo]

FFS, Trashman, you're a ****wit. ANYONE who says that ships cannot and DO NOT jump while disabled, can fall into the group with him.


Fior instance, the Tantalus DOES jump out regardless of whethere is is disabled or not about a minute after the bastion jumps.


The people in this community have a tendancy of talking out of their ****ing asses without taking the 30 seconds it takes to actually TRY something. The lot of you need to grow the **** up.

[Mobius]

Moving in space and entering subspace are two connected things.A ship can't enter subspace if most of its engines are disabled(like the Sathanas,a so big ship can't enter subspace with only its four frontal engines). 

Hey Hippo stay calm! 

[Axem]

(like the Sathanas,a so big ship can't enter subspace with only its four frontal engines). 

I've already said it doesn't work like that. In game a Sath can leave with even one tiny engine. In reality, assuming that the increased speed is a result of the engines working super hard, it would just take the Sath longer to accelerate.

[Polpolion]

You're all WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

A ship is pulled into the subspace vortex. And other passing by ships don't get sucked in because they are not in the right position to.

[Axem]

That's why I said, "assuming the increased speed is a result of the engines working super hard." Even if you try to change the whole premise of entering subspace it still doesn't work out.

[Polpolion]

oh.


I'm sorry

But it still stands for the Lt. Gen.

[karajorma]

FFS, Trashman, you're a ****wit. ANYONE who says that ships cannot and DO NOT jump while disabled, can fall into the group with him.

Calm down Hippo. Whether you agree with him or not it's no reason to start insulting him. If the thread does degenerate into a flamewar I'll have to lock it and I won't be able to rub Trashman's nose in the fact I've proved him wrong.

Secondly I'm going to say that I haven't made my mind up on this one yet. There does appear to be evidence for both sides of the argument.

1) There are three methods for a ship to leave the game.
 a) A ship can have a departure cue set. This method will work regardless of the state of the ships engines.
 b) A ship can be given ai-warp-out orders. This method will not work if the engines are dead
 c) A player ship can press Alt-J. This method will not work if the engines are dead
This leans towards the conclusion that intended for engines to be needed for a jump. Seeing as how the departure cue is used for things other than simple arrivals and departures from subspace there is a good reason for leaving it that way. There's no sensible reason for putting those limitations on the other two methods (especially considering that the break and never-warp SEXPs exist) unless the coders wanted to make sure that disabled ships couldn't jump out.

2) The Colossus is given orders to jump out even though it is disabled. I don't think you can read too much into that though. The Colossus was only disabled at a late date in the mission's development. It's quite possible that this was an oversight.

3) There are several occassions where you are told to disable the engines of ships in order to prevent them escaping. Off the top of my head
 a) You are told to disable the Iceni to prevent it escaping the first time you encounter it.
 b) You are told to disable the Shivan transports carrying Bosch in order to affect his capture.

4) In the mission with the Tantalus the ship jumps out whether or not the engines are disabled. But if a ship can jump out without engines why doesn't it jump out regardless of whether the conditions required for the mission goal are met or not. The same thing applies to pretty much any capture mission in fact.


Based on the above I tend to lean towards the argument that jumps do require the jump engines to be working.

[Colonol Dekker]

You're all WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

A ship is pulled into the subspace vortex. And other passing by ships don't get sucked in because they are not in the right position to.

The FSRef Bible states that the Drives cause a ship to resonate/osccilate in harmony with the subspace continu'um (spellings ****e so sue me) opening the vortex in question. If another ships drive aint on, then its not wobbling in synch with the wormhole anyway....

[Hippo]

1) There are three methods for a ship to leave the game.
 a) A ship can have a departure cue set. This method will work regardless of the state of the ships engines.
 b) A ship can be given ai-warp-out orders. This method will not work if the engines are dead
 c) A player ship can press Alt-J. This method will not work if the engines are dead

I have also witnessed ships with departure cues as waypoints-done-delay with an actual delay. As soon as part 1 of that cue (waypoints-done) is satisfied it meerly waits for part 2 and then warps. Typically not noticeable without a long wait time where there is time for the ship to become disabled.

[karajorma]

Not getting your point. That's still a ship being told to leave via a departure cue

[Hippo]

Aye, just throwing that out there.

[Colonol Dekker]

Darth water-Horse? how long you had thtat

[Hippo]

quite some time now.


*points at the SWC*

[Mobius]

So I what I was saying is right...

[TrashMan]

FFS, Trashman, you're a ****wit. ANYONE who says that ships cannot and DO NOT jump while disabled, can fall into the group with him.

For instance, the Tantalus DOES jump out regardless of whethere is is disabled or not about a minute after the bastion jumps.

The people in this community have a tendancy of talking out of their ****ing asses without taking the 30 seconds it takes to actually TRY something. The lot of you need to grow the **** up.

Calm down blubberboy...
I'm not claiming anything with certanty about subspace jumping right now. Do you allways overreact so?

Can a ship jump while disabled? I really don't know. I can't recall anything in the techroom that can shed the light on it, however I do know that in those missions I mentioned those ships didn't jump out (at least not for me).

I actually stayed 5 minutes after the Bastion left, blasting the Tantalus till it died. But maby it was a glitch?
The other Demon I mentioned jumps out unless you disable him.

Is this rock solid proof that ships can't jump while disabled? Nope. But it does merit some research.
I can't recall any ship in the FS1 and 2 campaign that jump out disabled but I could be wrong.
If anyone else knows of ships jumping/not jumping while disabled then plase be kind enough and post them here.

On another note I have a theory - the bigger the ship the more energy you need to make a jump. Now batteries can only go so far, so can you store all of it or must you produce part of it on the spot?
Secondly, do the engines of FS2 ships produce power or are they connected/tied to the jump drive itself in any way?

Food for thought.....

[TrashMan]

Oh -  I re-did that Orion vs. Sath mission...
Here you go:

http://www.hades-combine.com/web/hosted/fow/LeBigTest.fs2