US gives UK the finger on JSF fighter project

[Kosh]

http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/12/10/0151206.shtml


What do you expect when you try and cooperate with the US?

[Turambar]

What do you expect when you try and cooperate with the US?

invasion?

[Turey]

invasion?

What could POSSIBLY make you think that we'd try to get back at you for 169 years (1607-1776) of occupation? 

[Ford Prefect]

Wait, I thought we were getting back at them for Elton John.

[Rictor]

The UK is stupid for spending so much money on the JSF anyway. They should instead have pumped it into the Eurofighter and brought it up to par with the JSF (stealth, avionics, carrier capable etc). This just goes to show who really wears the pants in the "special relationship" between the US and UK. If they're not willing to hand over the source code to their closest allies, other nations better start wondering whether whatever they get will be just scraps from Uncle Sam's table.

[Turey]

Wait, I thought we were getting back at them for Elton John.

Well yeah, him and Mick Jagger.

[Bobboau]

eh... this is stupid, we have nothing to gain from this and a ****load to lose.

[redmenace]

It was just a concern of security, really. I think this is being seen in the wrong light. Considering the chinese stole the Agaeis system using a subcontractor, I wouldn't be suprised the DoD would be hesitant about sharing likly a advanced piece of Software for the JSF. I don't blaming for them acting this way, although, it is slightly embarrising as they had to rely on Bush and Blair to work it out.

[Kosh]

If the US can't even trust it's own allies with anything, then why are they allies?

[redmenace]

Hence the slightly embarrising comment. But I think this is more a result of overzealous security concerns than outright distrust. I don't think their position is that the British are going to hand over plans and software to the chinese. Their concern is that it might be accidentally leaked or stolen.

[redmenace]

The UK is stupid for spending so much money on the JSF anyway. They should instead have pumped it into the Eurofighter and brought it up to par with the JSF (stealth, avionics, carrier capable etc). This just goes to show who really wears the pants in the "special relationship" between the US and UK. If they're not willing to hand over the source code to their closest allies, other nations better start wondering whether whatever they get will be just scraps from Uncle Sam's table.

Well keep in mind that there has been a long standing relationship between the US and Britain as far as military aircraft goes. I would be hesitant to throw away that relationship. However, from this, although not intentional, we see the US doesn't seem to care about this. But keep in mind that this relationship has existed since the Battle for Britain.

[Dysko]

The UK is stupid for spending so much money on the JSF anyway. They should instead have pumped it into the Eurofighter and brought it up to par with the JSF (stealth, avionics, carrier capable etc).

First of all, the F-35 and the Typhoon are completely different planes: the F-35 is a multi-role aircraft like the F-16, the Typhoon is an air superiority fighter, like the F-22 and the F-15. The F-35 is not stealth, is a "low observability" airplane, exactly like the Typhoon. They are much similar in avionic, the only advantage of the F-35 is that the pilot wears an helmet with a screen that enable to see outside of the airplane. And the Typhoon will never be carrier-borne: it has been a miracle that 4 nations developed a plane like a Typhoon, this miracle will not be repeated for a carrier-borne version (also because of the 4 developing nations, UK, Spain and Italy have carriers that can be used only by helicopters and V/STOL aircraft like the Harrier and the F-35, and Germany doesn't have carriers at all. Only carriers like American and French ones could use a naval Typhoon). Only France had been able to develop a naval Typhoon: the Rafale, that is based on the Typhoon (France was part of the EFA team, but abandoned it to develop the Rafale).

[Quest_techie]

not to mention you don't just fund in stealth

you could not take an aeroplane that was not designed to be low observable\stealth and just throw money at it and make it stealth\low observable without a redesign of the whole skin and other elements, stealth and low observability are design doctrines that have to be integrated from the very beginning, it's not "we'l design the plane then you put the stealth on it later"

there is a reason the f-117 looks so unusual and has such unstable flight characteristics, there is also a reason it has such an incredibly small radar profile <well, several really> there is a reason the f-16 has such a large radar signature and flys in the manner it does, design doctrine

and I know RADAR, I'm just to lazy to caps it every time, same as LASER, which no one bothers to cap out anymore....

[Snail]

The UK is stupid for spending so much money on the JSF anyway. They should instead have pumped it into the Eurofighter and brought it up to par with the JSF (stealth, avionics, carrier capable etc).

First of all, the F-35 and the Typhoon are completely different planes: the F-35 is a multi-role aircraft like the F-16, the Typhoon is an air superiority fighter, like the F-22 and the F-15. The F-35 is not stealth, is a "low observability" airplane, exactly like the Typhoon. They are much similar in avionic, the only advantage of the F-35 is that the pilot wears an helmet with a screen that enable to see outside of the airplane. And the Typhoon will never be carrier-borne: it has been a miracle that 4 nations developed a plane like a Typhoon, this miracle will not be repeated for a carrier-borne version (also because of the 4 developing nations, UK, Spain and Italy have carriers that can be used only by helicopters and V/STOL aircraft like the Harrier and the F-35, and Germany doesn't have carriers at all. Only carriers like American and French ones could use a naval Typhoon). Only France had been able to develop a naval Typhoon: the Rafale, that is based on the Typhoon (France was part of the EFA team, but abandoned it to develop the Rafale).

"Never ask Darth DySkO something related to airplanes... It's asking for troubles..." - Admiral Edivad

[Roanoke]

Britian should have just gotten Mig29s, possibily in kit form to keep BAe bods busy, rather than all this collaberation nonsense.

[Dysko]

there is a reason the f-16 has such a large radar signature and flys in the manner it does, design doctrine

IIRC, the F-16 has a lower radar signature than most fighters due to its blended wing design (only when not carrying weapons), but probably I'm wrong... I can't find the article where I read it.

Britian should have just gotten Mig29s, possibily in kit form to keep BAe bods busy, rather than all this collaberation nonsense.

I've read that refitting an airplane which uses meters, kph, liters and kilograms to use feet, knots, gallons and pounds may have the same cost as building a totally new airplane, not talking about weapon compatibility. But again, I may be wrong.

[karajorma]

Britian should have just gotten Mig29s, possibily in kit form to keep BAe bods busy, rather than all this collaberation nonsense.

Even at the cost of millions that would be worth it for the look on the American's faces

[Nuke]

the us doesnt want to share the code simply because they dont want other coutrys to find the kill switch they placed there

[an0n]

I've never understood why Britain, Russia and China don't just go "Y'know what? **** the US. Let's just incinerate them all...."

[Flipside]

Do you know how hard it is to find a phone line to activate the product at 27,000 ft anyway?