[Ravage]

 

OK, Huggy!  There's just sooooo much info on HLP forums, and the questions I have never seem to be answered by the wiki, so I'm always left wondering if my questions were something solved a long time ago, or something that I just don't understand.

I'll give it a go with the adveffects tonight and the graphic file you posted!

[Turey]

Thank you Huggybaby and Turey.

I'm still a little confused though.  How does putting this file into the data directory of the media vps compare to the stuff in this thread?  http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34618.0.html

Is this single graphics file change the super high end shockwaves to low end, mid, high?

Thanks for the help!

o.0

The last post in that thread is the day before I joined.

[Ravage]

I'm not sure about the file path for this 3d shockwave file.  There isn't an "effects" folder in my mediavps data folder...just a cache folder and a multi log.  My modified weapons table is simply placed in the mediavps directory, I tried placing this file in the media vps folder, but there is still some serious slowdown from shockwaves.  I tested using the "Greyface" mission from the simulator...plenty of bomb waves and the inevitable ship destruction waves...

If I have this file in the right place, then I think my GPU just isn't up to the challenge...It stays at 60fps and goes to 30 at the lowest during dogfights, but when a shockwave goes off, bam...5-15fps for a second or two...

[karajorma]

Create the folder. It doesn't exist by default.

*note to the installer team - Make a bunch of empty folders by default in the mediavps folder. It cuts down on questions like this one*

[Huggybaby]

OK. I removed those folders because they stay empty for the most part, and I didn't want anyone asking "why are these folders there, but they're empty?" I guess you can't win for losing!

I'll put them in my next download.

Ravage, I've been testing for three hours now. I'm getting huge slowdowns too, and I've narrowed it down to the specific file and effect. Here's what I've found so far:

It's BEAM, not shockwave related. I'm testing with the very first mission, "Surrender, Belisarius!"
I fly in close to Belisarius and watch what happens when it's blown up. I use the frames per second switch found in the launcher's "Features/List type/Dev Tool/Show frames per second on Hud".

I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 2 GB of RAM and an ATI X700 with 256 MB RAM.

I've eliminated all the Graphics settings. I can turn all those on. I've eliminated my spyware and antivirus software. I've eliminated my video card tweaks. They don't make much of a difference.

I was sure it was down to one of the two adveffects files because of all the admonitions that they cause slowdowns.

In C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps, if I use the mv_adveffects.vp file and not the mp-710_adveffects.vp file , I drop from 120 fps to 5 as soon as they say "Gunnery control, open fire", even before I see a beam. The medium shockwave only drops me to 50 fps.

If I use the mp-710_adveffects.vp and not the mv_adveffects.vp file, I only drop to 80 fps instead of 5.

That's as far as I've gotten, but that narrows it down pretty well.

What really gets me is that with both adveffects files removed, I can hardly tell the difference in quality, but this is probably because I don't know what to look for.

I think Shivan SPS had the right idea removing those from the mediavps folder by default, so my next download will follow suit.

I've seen posts regarding optimized beams, but can't find them right now.

[Ravage]

   Thanks Karajorma!  I'm still new at this, so I wasn't sure about the folder creation.  As it was, the first time I tried it, I made the folder and placed the tga file in it, but the slow down was still pretty bad.

Huggy, thanks for all the input!  I did experience slow down from beams, but it was definitely the shockwaves that were slowing me down.  The fps drop wasn't even from processing time issues I think, but rather loading the wave graphics to the GPU.  I Think my bottleneck is the hardrive to the GPU...once it's there it does fine.  In fact, after the first few waves load up, the subsequent ones don't seem to drop my frame rate much at all.  However, everytime there was a new volley, it lags for a 1-2 secs as it loads the waves and then it plays smoothly.

I'll have to try another mission with a bunch of beams going off, and see how that does.  Incidentally, there was a link to a more efficient beam ani on the very first page of the 3.6.8 Zeta stickied thread I think.

I should also mention, that I modify my weapons table to double the firing rate and velocity of all primaries, so there is a lot of primary weapon fire going on, though it's never slowed my fps down before...so I'm not sure if it's relevant...just saying is all.

Oh, and I just have to say thank you to everyone here again for making Freespace the best game ever!

[Huggybaby]

Thanks Ravage.

I've seen the reports relating to slow hard drives also. And, my very fast machine IS using one slow, old drive (don't ask). Still, I get no relief even after several attempts. So cacheing doesn't help me.

[karajorma]

OK. I removed those folders because they stay empty for the most part, and I didn't want anyone asking "why are these folders there, but they're empty?" I guess you can't win for losing!

You have a point. I was always seeing that question back in retail days.

To be honest though that question was generally an idle question or a stab at what might be the problem while people who don't think to create the folder are going to sit around not playing the game while they wait to find out if the lack of the folder is a problem.

We can always try sticking a text file called "This folder is empty by default" in the empty ones if that helps. Although then we'd get a bunch of "My folder wasn't empty!" questions if we later tell people to patch something to there

[Huggybaby]

As a baseline, I can do a retail install, which I think makes every folder possible.

Then, I can put in each empty folder a brief text file explaining what might eventually go in there, and why it's empty at the moment.

All I need is someone to provide that explanation. 

[Turey]

All I need is someone to provide that explanation. 

I can do that. IM me next time I'm on and I'll help out.

[karajorma]

Make a start on the text for the obvious ones (missions, maps, music etc) and then if you're stuck on any of the others I'll help you. Bear in mind that mediavps doesn't need all of the folders from /data. Just the ones that could be needed by a mod.

[MP-Ryan]

If you are interested then let me know and I'll get you a build link.  The changes should show up in 3.6.10, so it won't really be a long wait before everyone gets to benefit from the new code.

I knew it!  For developers, time IS relative!

[Herra Tohtori]

To be honest, there was abnormally long time between 3.6.7 and 3.6.9 releases, and that led to almost everyone using unofficial (or rather semi-official) builds that were posted around the forums with different kind of features - there was the first voice recognition build, lighting test build, all the release candidates for 3.6.9...

Only time will tell how long we'll have to wait for 3.6.10... or 3.7 series even...

But I suppose we will notice when it happens!

[Huggybaby]

I'm not quite sure how best to handle the folder situation. On reflection I think one text file (or jpg) describing files and folders would be better than one in each directory. I'm not sure whether having empty directories is better than removing them.

A great deal of room in a retail install is taken up by 1. MindSpring (now obsolete) 2. Electronic Registration (Obsolete) and 3. FredDocs (can be packaged separately). Removing those leaves many folders I haven't seen used yet. Here are some html directory listings of an FS2 Retail Install:

FS2 Retail

FS2 Retail minus MindSpring and Electronic Registration

[Turey]

WARNING! EXTREMELY LONG POST!

Here's what I know:

<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\cache> - Cached Files, for faster loading. File Type is .ibx. These are automatically created by FreeSpace Open if they don't exist, so you really don't need them.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\cbanims> - Command Briefing Animations. File Type is .ani (and possbly .eff, I'm not sure). Associated Retail VPs are tango1_fs2.vp, tango2_fs2.vp, and tango3_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\effects> - Weapons effects, explosions, shield hit effects, nebulas, etc. File types are .ani, .neb, .pcx, .jpg, .tga, .dds, and .eff. Associated Retail VPs are sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\fonts> - Never used it, I assume it's for replacing the default fonts. File Type is .vf. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\force feedback> - Never used it. File Type is .frc. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\freddocs> - Fred Manual.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\hud> - Any thing you see on the HUD. Escort list, Shield display ani's, all the gauges, the talking pilot heads, etc. File Type is .ani (and possibly .eff, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VPs are sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\intelanims> - Contains the animations you see when you select Intelligence in the Tech Room. File Type is .ani (and possbly .eff, I'm not sure). Associated Retail VP is smarty_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\interface> - All the buttons, menu layouts, frames, etc. File Types are .ani and .pcx (and possibly .eff and the other image formats, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VPs are sparky_fs2.vp and  sparky_hi_fs2.vp. (Note: sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp also put some very interesting concept art in here, including 2_crim29.pcx, which is a ship that I don't recognize, but think that someone should make, now that we have triggered animation code.)
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\maps> - Contains the textures for the ships. File types are .ani, .pcx, .jpg, .tga, .dds, and .eff. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\missions> - .fc2 (Campaigns) and .fs2 (Missions) go here. Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\models> - Contains the actual 3d representations of the ships. File Type is .pof. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\movies> - Contains the in-game cutscenes. File Types are .mve and .ogg.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\multidata> -  An alternate place to store some of the data collected when you play multi. Can be used by setting an option on the Multi option menu, but shouldn't be used, as it doesn't seem to work, and will keep you from playing any missions in Multi that are transfered from another player.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\music> - Contains the music files. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is warble_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players> - Files related to players. This directory contains saved HUD setups (when you hit the save button on the HUD Config menu). File Type is .hcf.  Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\images> - Contains pilot images. File Type is .pcx (and maybe other image types, I'm not sure.)  Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\multi> - Contains your multi player pilots. File Type is .plr.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\single> - Contains your single player pilots. File Type is .plr.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\squads> - Contains squad images. File Type is .pcx (and maybe other image types, I'm not sure.)  Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\sounds> - Contains sound effects (as opposed to music.). Should never actually have files in it. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\sounds\16b11k> - I actually don't know the difference between these this folder and the next one. It appears to just be the quality of the sound, but I can't be sure. File Types are .wav (and possibly .ogg, but I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of sparky_fs2.vp include copilot.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\sounds\8b22k> -  Sounds to listen to in this section of sparky_fs2.vp include bup.wav, Pirate.wav, and thankyou.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\tables> - .tbl (Regular Tables) and .tbm (Modular Tables) files go here. Common examples are ships.tbl and weapons.tbl. Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice> - Contains the voice recordings for the game. Should never actually contain any files. Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\briefing> - Contains the voices you hear both before the mission and during it.  File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of stu_fs2.vp include Gshi_AC_01.wav and MT10_MB_01_OUTTAKE.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\command_briefings> - Contains the voices you hear during command briefings. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\debriefing> - Contains the voices you hear during debriefing, including the rank promotion and medal acquisition voices. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\personas> - Contains the automated messages you hear from the pilots and Command in-game. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of stu_fs2.vp include 1_stray.wav, 2_Oops1.wav, 3_p_dead.wav, 3_traitor.wav, 4_backup.wav, 4_notarget.wav, 4_traitor.wav, 5_oops1.wav, 5_traitor.wav, and 7_Traitor.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\special> - Contains miscellaneous voice files. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of stu_fs2.vp include BAS_W3_01.wav, BAS_W3_02.wav, BAS_W4_01.wav, BAS_W4_02.wav, L2-2_SN_02a.wav (Make sure your speakers are at max for this one, it's really quiet.), LP1-2_SN_02.wav, LP2-1_A2_02.wav, LP2-2_SN_02.wav (Make sure your speakers are at max for this one, it's really quiet.), LP2-2_SN_03.wav, LP2-2_SN_03_OUTTAKE.wav (Which is apparently the source of the copilot.wav mentioned earlier.), and LP2-2_SN_06_OUTTAKE.wav.

[Huggybaby]

Thank's Turey,

I'll format this and put it in a file.

And thanks karajorma too, I'm sure I'll find something to ask you soon. 

<edit> dangit, I missed some posts! Thanks Ravage for the beam hint, I've been looking for that.

<edit> OK Turey, how do I make DaBrains beams work? There is one eff file and a bunch of dds files.

[Turey]

It's a beam, so it's an effect, so all of those files go in freespace2\mediavps\data\effects.

[Huggybaby]

Here are DaBrain's optimized beam glows 7zipped into a vp file. The original post is HERE.

Extract the file and put it in the "C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps" folder and it will really help beam slowdown problems if you have them.

Thanks Turey for the help and DaBrain for the beams.

[Herra Tohtori]

To be a nitpicker, these are not beams per ce, they are just beamglows. You know, the glows around beam turrets. Beam textures are entirely another thing.

[Huggybaby]

Thanks for the correction. Post edited (and link added).