[DeepSpace9er]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638&q=the+great+swindle&pr=goog-sl

Questioning authority

[Ace]

 :

Yup, it's clear that humans can't impact the environment or make natural cycles worse:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6288445.stm

[achtung]

:

Yup, it's clear that humans can't impact the environment or make natural cycles worse:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6288445.stm

Different situation

[Ace]

Oh of course, because those are 'micro climates' being effected. It's not like when a lot of 'micro climates' are being altered there's a global impact.

Just like 'oh, that's micro evolution! It's not like that has a larger impact!'

 :

[achtung]

I still want to check the validity of the data presented in the video.  If it's true, I guess it will give me something to think about.

[Goober5000]

Ace, you're going off on a completely irrelevant tangent -- incorrectly inferring the general from the specific.

Global weather patterns are incredibly chaotic.  It's not at all clear how the causes and effects work.  The vegetarianism lobby is even claiming that the meat industry is responsible for more CO2 output than all industrial pollution combined, which highlights how ludicrous the entire political situation is.

I found this article to be interesting:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/print?id=2938762

[IceFire]

Makes me hang my head in shame...we deserve what we get...

Forget the temperature...forget global warming...this isn't just about that. Its about screwing up our environment.  Just locally I can list a half dozen different things that have been done horribly wrong and its done so much harm to the environment. I'm only thankful that local leaders have managed to do something about it.  There are fish in the bay that haven't been there for 25 years that are returning.  We might one day be able to swim in the lakes again...not yet but maybe.  Doesn't that make anyone sick that we've made things that bad?

[achtung]

Makes me hang my head in shame...we deserve what we get...

Forget the temperature...forget global warming...this isn't just about that. Its about screwing up our environment.  Just locally I can list a half dozen different things that have been done horribly wrong and its done so much harm to the environment. I'm only thankful that local leaders have managed to do something about it.  There are fish in the bay that haven't been there for 25 years that are returning.  We might one day be able to swim in the lakes again...not yet but maybe.  Doesn't that make anyone sick that we've made things that bad?

Well yeah, you dump mercury in a lake, and the fish will die.

[DeepSpace9er]

The question is: did you all sit for an hour and 15 minutes and watch the whole thing?

[achtung]

I did! 

I've got such great friends:

********_2004: need to make a gaint trojen comdom and strech it over the the earth! and instead of spermacide..need to use sunscrean 1000 proof

[aldo_14]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638&q=the+great+swindle&pr=goog-sl

Questioning authority

Maybe you should question TV, first?  Or 'documentaries' made by men with a history of misrepresenting scientific experts to prove their point even when refuted?

http://www.badscience.net/?p=383

On Thursday night, Channel 4 broadcast what it described as a “controversial documentary”. It was essentially the same rather elderly climate denialist arguments that have been seen many times before - and assessed, and refuted - but packaged up with a bit of drama, as if they were new and unheard of.

That wasn’t the only problem with it.

Climate scientist ‘duped to deny global warming’
Ben Goldacre and David Adam
Sunday March 11, 2007
The Observer

Annoyingly this got very badly cut for space in the paper. Link above is to the paper’s version, pasted here is the last version me and David saw, with lots more quotes from Wunsch. There’s excellent coverage in the Independent below too.

A leading US climate scientist is considering legal action after he says he
was “duped” into appearing in a “misleading” Channel Four documentary,
which claimed that man-made global warming is a myth.

Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at MIT, said the film, The
Great Global Warming Swindle, was “grossly distorted” and “as close to pure
propaganda as anything since World War Two”.

He says his comments in the film, screened on Thursday night, were taken
out of context and that he was misrepresented. He also says that the
project was misrepresented to him by the film makers, and that he would not
have agreed to participate if he had known what it was to be called, or
that it would argue that man-made global warming was not a serious threat.
“I thought they were trying to educate the public about the complexities of
climate change,” he said. “This seems like a deliberate attempt to exploit
someone who is on the other side of the issue.”

He has demanded that his comments are removed from the program, and says
that Channel Four “owes an apology to its viewers”. He is also considering
legal action and a complaint to Ofcom, the broadcasters regulator.

The film was made by Martin Durkin. In 1997, Mr Durkin produced a similar
series for Channel Four called Against Nature, which attacked many of the
claims of the environmental movement, and characterised them as comparable
to Nazis.

Channel Four was forced in 1998 to broadcast a lengthy apology after
several interviewees complained that they had been deceived . The
Independent Television Commission (now part of Ofcom) upheld the complaint
and found that “the views of the four complainants, as made clear to the
interviewer, had been distorted by selective editing”, and that they had
been “misled as to the content and purpose of the programmes when they
agreed to take part.”

Professor Wunsch did not see Thursday’s program before it was broadcast,
and watched it only after colleagues in the UK contacted him with their
concerns. “The company I keep in this film makes me very uncomfortable,” he
said. “Why Me? I was duped. Perhaps my English colleagues might have
recognised Martin Durkin’s name and said no. I didn’t recognise the name.”

The film claimed that the role of human emissions in climate change has
been exaggerated, and that changes in the sun and cosmic rays could be to
blame instead — claims that have been repeatedly discussed and rejected by
climate scientists. In February, the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change said that a sharp rise in temperatures seen in the twentieth
century was “very likely” to be caused by human activity.

The film introduced Professor Wunsch by describing his current and previous
academic affiliations. He was then shown talking about how the oceans
release carbon dioxide as they warm.

He told the Observer: “I explained that warming the ocean was damaging
because it will release more carbon dioxide. They used it to claim that
carbon dioxide is all natural.” He added: “I could forgive someone not
understanding the issues. This seems like a deliberate attempt to exploit
someone.”

“We should be trying to explain to the public what we do and do not
understand. I feel my time was wasted, the public were misled, and an
opportunity was kicked away.”

Martin Durkin said: “Carl Wunsch was most certainly not “duped” into
appearing in the film, as is perfectly clear from our correspondence with
him. Nor are his comments taken out of context. His interview, as used in
the programme, perfectly accurately represents what he said.”

Channel 4 said: “The film was a polemic that drew together the well
documented views of a number of respected scientists. We feel it is
important that all sides of the debate are aired. If one of the scientists
featured now has concerns about his contribution, we will look into it in
the normal way.”

[NGTM-1R]

Global weather patterns are incredibly chaotic.  It's not at all clear how the causes and effects work.  The vegetarianism lobby is even claiming that the meat industry is responsible for more CO2 output than all industrial pollution combined, which highlights how ludicrous the entire political situation is.

There's actually truth to that, if you consider the average methane output of, say, a cow.

The cows are destroying the world, followed by the goats.

[DeepSpace9er]

Maybe you should question TV, first?  Or 'documentaries' made by men with a history of misrepresenting scientific experts to prove their point even when refuted?

Like Al Gore?

[aldo_14]

Maybe you should question TV, first?  Or 'documentaries' made by men with a history of misrepresenting scientific experts to prove their point even when refuted?

Like Al Gore?

What the **** has Al Gore got to do with this?

[Unknown Target]

Maybe you should question TV, first?  Or 'documentaries' made by men with a history of misrepresenting scientific experts to prove their point even when refuted?

Like Al Gore?

Except he's, you know - right. And none of your right wing ear covering and shouting while you try to drown him out can change that.

[DeepSpace9er]

Im not on the political side of the fence that trys to silence and intimidate. I want Al Gore to say more about it, get more extreme, more shrill so that everybody will see him for who he truly is. Actually, im going to watch An Inconvenient Truth to better inform myself. Its not going to change what I think about global warming, because i know its a crock.

[IceFire]

EDIT: Nevermind...you guys don't get it and never will.

[Flipside]

Amazing, when it comes to Terrorism, we spend billions in intelligence, defence and surveillance in case of million to one chances happening, and everyone is fine with it. Yet with things like Global Warming, which have certainly got more evidence than there was for, say, WMD's in Iraq, and its time to get out the Fiddle.

Is Global Warming a man-made phenomenon, I couldn't say. Is human industry having a detectable effect on the Environment? Yes, and since we all live on the same planet, those effects are Global. Now you can wrap that up in any name you so feel inclined, don't call it Global Warming if you like, that's an incorrect definition anyway, but it IS happening. Personally, I don't care who's fault it is, I'm not even sure if we can do anything about it if it is, but we need to take these things seriously and not shrug them off in the hope they will conveniently go away, there's is mounting evidence they will not in the short term.

[aldo_14]

Im not on the political side of the fence that trys to silence and intimidate. I want Al Gore to say more about it, get more extreme, more shrill so that everybody will see him for who he truly is. Actually, im going to watch An Inconvenient Truth to better inform myself. Its not going to change what I think about global warming, because i know its a crock.

Explain what the hell Al Gore has to do with any of this?

You posted a link to a documentary that is effectively propaganda - and that's according to the principal climate scientist featured in it, who is considering legal action and requesting his comments be removed.  He is saying, in actuality, that this 'enlightening' program not only misrepresented him, but that it is without scientific merit and twisted his comments.  Moreso, the maker of this documentary has in the past been in trouble for exactly the same thing - he made a late 90s documentary which saw 4 of the principal contributors succesfully complain to the TV regulator that their statements had been twisted out of all meaning and selectively edited.

Here, for example, is a critique of said documentary from actual proper scientists (not Al Gore, who you seem to presume is some sort of leading authority driving the current concern towards climate change); http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/

So before you throw about rubbish like 'it's a crock' - and this isn't even touching on the issue of localised economic and health damage due to pollution, as Icefire mentioned, which anyone with half a brain can see - maybe you should stop throwing up idiotic fluff like this documentary as 'enlightening' or some sort of proof.  Then perhaps drop the 'Al Gore blahblahblah' hissy fit when you're called on it, and at the very least look at the scientific rationale like sensible people should - not how much you like or dislike one reasonably famous ex-vice-presidents' documentary. 

The idea - and science - for man-made climate change existed well before Al Gore started going on about it, and tagging it onto one famous personality is pretty obviously an attempt to avoid the issue by attacking a personality instead.  Shame on you.

[Ace]

Just remember kids, science is good and fine until it says something you disagree with be it anthropogenic climate change, the universe being 13.7 billion years old, or aliens not being the ones who built the pyramids.

On the topic of enlightenment: hallowed are the Ori.