Author Topic: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback  (Read 57402 times)

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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Here's what I've been working away on for the past weeks: (all pics are lvlshotted)








It's yet to be shine and glowmapped, but that'll come - it uses a 1024 res map.

In-game it currently looks like this:



And we need to get it to display most if not all of this:



So what I currently have in mind is something like this:



So for the artists round here, does anyone fancy having a go at drawing up a better interface layout using the templates above? :)

=====

On the development side of things:

A request was made a long time ago by SCP coders for modelers to build a cockpit model that could be used to properly create an internal cockpit view with. The idea of this one was initially to have it built into HTL models and displayed using "show ship" and an inverted detail box, but I realise that's not going to work very well in this case. The huge amount of work it would be to put it into each model and make sure everything is the right size and all would be insane.

So what I'm now thinking is that there be a "show internal cockpit model" setting in the in-game options. What this would do is render this POF with the POF eyepoint lined up with the players one unless the players ship had "show ship" turned on (in which case it wouldn't do anything). It would probably also need to force the FOV to a specific setting (I used default for my template) so that nothing gets misaligned.

Assuming that can be done, the only question remaining is of how to actually put the HUD down there like that. I kinda doubt scripting would be able to replicate all the HUDs current functions - especially things like radar, so it'd more likely have to be a different HUD layout correct? Or possibly an amalgamation of a new HUD and scripted stuff.

Anyone have any ideas or pointers here? I don't really have a clue where to start. :(

In any case, this separate HUD display would also need to be toggled by that "show internal cockpit model" option.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
WICKED! :yes:
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Offline brozozo

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Great job!

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
The problem with your layout is that it's extremely busy. Wing Commander got away with that kind of thing because it had fewer gauges to display. I see no reason why the HUD can't be projected onto the visor of the pilot's helmet, which would give more options as to where to put things.
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Offline shiv

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Awesome :yes:
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Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Dude! I didn;t know you were this far along.

Layout looks good - personally, I think if people wanted a less-busy data display, they'd turn cockpits off. I do see one or two potential problems though - Cargo and orders will spill outside the available space if they're too long, and the directives and escort lists will be curtailed to being too short. It might be an idea to shift those lists outside of the physial cockpit area and use the freed up space for stuff that the FREDder can enter and potentially make too long. Also, did you do those pictures with a standard HUD screenie, or with the hud layout screenie layout you used above? Keep in mind that anyone using the SCP is probably _not_ running 640, and that does make a difference to the relative sizes of some of the HUD elements. It looks like a standard 1024 screengrab, but if it isn;t you might be able to gain some space in places.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
That is hot! The layout looks fine to me!

 

Offline akenbosch

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
i always thought the reticle/directives were displayed on the pilots goggles/visor, like the pilots of the US navy's super-hornet jet fighter.

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snail gives a debriefing: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48825.msg991954.html#msg991954

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Looks good but needs to be a bit brighter.Also needs some more work. :nod:
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
I stole your ammo/fuel gauges, hope you don't mind.  ;7


 

Offline akenbosch

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
more space is needed for the weapons, for ships with more than 2 of each bank.

of course, ship-specific hud layouts and custom copckpits could fix this...

Burn the sucker out of the sky!
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snail gives a debriefing: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48825.msg991954.html#msg991954

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
The problem with your layout is that it's extremely busy. Wing Commander got away with that kind of thing because it had fewer gauges to display. I see no reason why the HUD can't be projected onto the visor of the pilot's helmet, which would give more options as to where to put things.
I know it's extremely busy - that's why I was hoping people would use the bits and rearrange it as BloodEagle has so we have more options and ideas on how it can look.
As to the HUD projected onto visor thing, I've always disliked that idea because it's not what is seen in the FS1 cutscene, and the standard terran pilot look has no visor anyway.
It also makes for boring cockpits. :p

Dude! I didn;t know you were this far along.

Layout looks good - personally, I think if people wanted a less-busy data display, they'd turn cockpits off. I do see one or two potential problems though - Cargo and orders will spill outside the available space if they're too long, and the directives and escort lists will be curtailed to being too short. It might be an idea to shift those lists outside of the physial cockpit area and use the freed up space for stuff that the FREDder can enter and potentially make too long. Also, did you do those pictures with a standard HUD screenie, or with the hud layout screenie layout you used above? Keep in mind that anyone using the SCP is probably _not_ running 640, and that does make a difference to the relative sizes of some of the HUD elements. It looks like a standard 1024 screengrab, but if it isn;t you might be able to gain some space in places.

The areas you mention are problematic, yeah. I think it'd be a good idea to do as you and BloodEagle suggest and pull the directives and monitoring boxes out and probably put them back in their original places.
Here are the main potential overflow problem areas:
1) Damage - that list can get pretty long very quick IIRC. Easily enough to spill over the radar. It would probably need to be truncated for the cockpit view.
2) Targetted ship cargo and orders. (The speed and distance would likely need truncating as well)
3) Having more than 3 or 4 wings present in the mission. I don't really know how that bit even works - I think it must stretch the box or something. Getting it to correctly display a maximum of just 4 wings might already be too tricky. :\

As to the resolution, good point. :\
I pulled the graphics for the "Full HUD Features" out of the options screen, which looks like it is 640x480. I'm going to redraw my layout using the graphics in sparky-hi then - that should give a clearer image of the scales of the elements and generally look better. :)

I stole your ammo/fuel gauges, hope you don't mind.  ;7
lol, no worries - that's the sort of thing I hoped people would do in this thread, so thanks very much for taking the time. :D
As to your layout, there are some things I think look quite good and some I don't.
1) I fully agree with the moving the directives and escort list back onto the main window - I think that's probably really nessecary.
2) Your Enemy Hull integrity placement is a great idea. :D
3) The biggest problem is association really - mainly things like the energy managment system and the Lag icon don't really fit in with their surrounding controls.
4) I think the actual reticle and HUD brackets should really be displayed on the pop-up glass HUD panel it doesn't really have a purpose otherwise. (Incidentally, there's a single pixel in the centre of the HUD pane to let you line up the reticle - it's centre-screen and exactly where the real reticle usually appears)

more space is needed for the weapons, for ships with more than 2 of each bank.

of course, ship-specific hud layouts and custom copckpits could fix this...
The weapons are the one part of the HUD that isn't actually going to overflow at all - there's enough verticle space there to correctly display 3 gunbanks and maybe up to 4 missile banks. :p

As to the ship specific HUD layouts - that'd be an enormous undertaking to make a separate one for each ship, and considering that really the only things to change from ship to ship are the shield icon and weapons, I don't think it's a good idea really.

Anyway, I'm gonna draw up another layout based on what's been said so far. I also encourage more people to follow BloodEagles example if you have a good idea for this. ;)
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Offline akenbosch

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
i dont realy see a point in having two indicators for your weapon, so...


Burn the sucker out of the sky!
EAT PHOTONS INFIDEL! MAY THE HEAT OF A THOUSAND SUNS CONSUME YOU! :mad2:


snail gives a debriefing: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48825.msg991954.html#msg991954

 

Offline Grimloq

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
I see no reason why the HUD can't be projected onto the visor of the pilot's helmet, which would give more options as to where to put things.

I guess I should point out:  in the opening FS1 cutscene, during a couple of the shots you can see that front 'screen' thing (directly in the centre of these screenshots), and the entire HUD as it appears ingame is visible on it.  I remember that distinctly.  With that in mind, 'sticking to canon' isn't so much an issue I guess...  Even though that makes no sense since the text would be too small for the pilot to read, it's what was there.

Oh, and as for the busy-ness...  I liked that.  One of the more unique features of aircraft or spacecraft is this just /mass/ of buttons and gauges.  It may be confusing at first, but I think you'd get used to it quite quickly, and it just seems 'authentic' to me.

Plus, who says we have to adhere to this new uber-minimalistic HUD all the game makers are doing these days?  :p
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Whoops, I mean't to take that out!  :lol:

Maybe I could place the energy system there....

:EDIT:

Here it is.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 08:54:48 pm by BloodEagle »

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Plus, who says we have to adhere to this new uber-minimalistic HUD all the game makers are doing these days?  :p

The minimalism makes the HUD easier to read and quicker to grasp the information, which gives you an edge in combat.
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Offline Cobra

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
Hot damn, Grimloq returns!

Also, good god, I want that. I WANT THAT COCKPIT.
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Offline akenbosch

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
wait for twisted infinites.

Burn the sucker out of the sky!
EAT PHOTONS INFIDEL! MAY THE HEAT OF A THOUSAND SUNS CONSUME YOU! :mad2:


snail gives a debriefing: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48825.msg991954.html#msg991954

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
It won't be coming out for a long while. :p
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline akenbosch

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Re: Internal Cockpit - Need HUD Layout Feedback
wait till "when its done"*





*known to christians as "the apocalypse"


Burn the sucker out of the sky!
EAT PHOTONS INFIDEL! MAY THE HEAT OF A THOUSAND SUNS CONSUME YOU! :mad2:


snail gives a debriefing: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48825.msg991954.html#msg991954