[Talon 1024]

So what all do I need to start my own standalone FS2 mod? Not that I am going to right away, but I just want a list of things that I need to get started on one of these mods.

Please list as many things as you can.

[Mobius]

Why a standalone MOD? Unless you come out with completely new textures, models, sounds and music, the MOD will contain stuff we all have and occupy what remains of our computer's Free space(not FreeSpace ). Furthermore, the MOD will become obsolete after the release of a new package of Media VPs. In case of a standalone MOD for WCS, however, things might be slightly different

As I said, you need everything:

Models, tables, sounds, music, textures and possibly a FS Open build(with debug version).

So many files are difficult to manage, keep this in mind

[jr2]

Right.  All you will have is the FreeSpace Open engine (the .exe & the FRED .exe)... you will need to create the rest.  Copy the .exes (fs2_open_xxx.exe, fs2_open_xxx_debug.exe, fred2_open_xxx.exe, fred2_open_xxx_debug.exe) to a new folder, eg \Games\<your TC name here>\

Now, the rest is up to you. 

[chief1983]

I'm wondering if he also might have been wondering what tools to use too...

[Flipside]

Why the stars around 'legally'? I don't think we have any illegal Stand-Alone mods so long as they aren't sold. In fact, in many ways, the stand-alone Mods are more legal because they don't contain any of Volitions created stuff.

[chief1983]

There's a difference between mod and campaign.  By mod, he could even mean a TC.  If he just wants to create something based in the FS universe, well, he's got the mediavps to rely on, and then he can create his own content.  However, it's still in the FS universe.  Does anyone know if modding is even strictly legal according to the EULA?  Many licenses have odd disclaimers about modding.  For instance, Blizzard owns any custom content created for Warcraft 3 I believe.  Either way, any mod in the FS universe is still something based on their IP.  It's still a gray area, even if it's all original content.  All I'm saying is, the only real way to avoid any possible legal repercussion is to have a TC based on a completely original universe with all original content.  Anything else not _that_ original, well, there's probably an instance already in which someone got sued over something like it.  That's the legal system for you.  There's just no precedent for it around here really, and probably never will be, but there's always a small inherent risk whenever you take something someone else created and modify it without there explicit permission.

But, if you want to make a mod/campaign in the FS universe, and otherwise be as legal as possible, get an FSO build like jr2 said, get the free tools from Kara's freespacefaq.com (or Turey's installer), and go from there.  There's free modeling apps, free image editing apps, free sound editing apps, etc.  There is also a wealth of user-created content that can be freely distributed.  Most mods are open to the use of their own creations in other mods, and there are other packs all over the forums here, and other websites about FS as well.  If you're looking for something specific, don't be afraid to ask for it.  Other than that, have fun!

[Jeff Vader]

Then again, the way I've always understood it, Volition intentionally made FS easy to be modded. And if I'm not wrong, they've even released the tools that can be used for modding FS. Conclusion: they really don't mind if people make their own campaigns or mods or even total conversions, as long as people won't charge anything for these mods etc.

[Flipside]

@Chief,

The guys at Volition actually helped out with Modding information in the early stages, as well as, obviously, including Fred and Fred 2 with the games, they fortunately realised that the best way to keep a franchise alive is to allow the players to create their own content, the continued existence of this site is testament to the fact they were right

[chief1983]

That's all true, but what Volition intended, and what Interplay might want to happen are not necessarily the same thing these days.  Warcraft is also easy to mod, doesn't mean you have all the rights you might expect going into creating a custom map unless you read the EULA closely.  But I'm just playing devil's advocate here, just to present both possible sides.  You're all correct, :V: did give us some great tools for modding the game, and I'm sure they wouldn't do anything to harm the community.  I'm just speaking from a more global sense.  For those of you who know this one though, IANAL.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Flipside]

Well, the thing is there is you may find the simple fact the tools were released are pretty much permission to use them. There are stipulations that are included, such as non-profit mods only etc, but the actual act of replacing content in a game should be ok, oddly enough simply altering content may leave you on less firm ground.

[chief1983]

Yes, and I also wanted to press the point that a mod in the FS universe, is pretty much ok if you follow those rules, but creating a Total Conversion set in another universe opens up a whole new patch of IP considerations.  That's something a lot of mods have to think about.  So I was just saying, to avoid any legal repurcussions, I guess it would need to be in either the FS universe or an original universe, with entirely user-created content, nothing from :V: or any other corporations or users who haven't given out their work with permission to use it freely.

[Flipside]

I suppose my biggest concern with Stand-alones is the fact that the Modding system was, as you say, originally intended to be for owners of Freespace 2, a stand-alone system does not require previous ownership of the game, and, like you, I'm not 100% certain where that stands, however, the Source Code itself, as far as I can tell, is released with the stipulation you don't make a profit, and it is pretty much open-ended regarding content, so as long as no-one is distributing content that came with the original Freespace 2 as part of a Stand-Alone, it shouldn't be a problem.

To be honest, by the time the source code is 'finished' I suspect there will be very little Volition code left in there at all, just about every aspect of the game has been re-examined and altered, though I couldn't in honesty say to what extent, which opens a whole new box of questions.

Edit: Though I should clarfiy that the Source Code will never get to a position where it is a completely different entity from the code Volition released, so the non-profit rules etc will always apply.

[chief1983]

Since the modifications were done with knowledge of the original code, they can never be completely original.  The only way to have original code is to use a blindfolded method of some sort.  Someone would have to rewrite every method of the game without knowing what they look like in the first place for it to be completely free of :V: code.  But then, it still follows many :V: standards, and how many of those are open, independent of the source code itself?

[RazorsKiss]

If it truly stands alone, then you're only using the source code that was released, to be used free-of-charge.

If it doesn't really stand alone from the original FS2 media, then it's not a stand alone, is it? 

Most of the TC's would probably be considered "stand alone", in that they don't *want* FS2's media.   I know I don't.  It would mess up the "feel" of the game I'm trying to emulate, for one.  All new tables, all new sounds, music, models, textures, media, interface, etc.  If that doesn't escape any possible usage of FS2's IP, I don't know what does, considering the source (which is ALL you're using, at that point) was freely released.

[karajorma]

Of course the problem with all the TCs is that while they are free of FS2's IP they are all beholden to someone else's.

The only way to have no risk from making a mod is to start with the source code/executables and make everything else yourself (including the universe the game is set in). While it's obvious that wanted us to make mods the chance always exists that someone may buy who don't want us to. It's remote chance and I'm not in the slightest bit worried about it happening but if you want to be bulletproof then the only thing you should take from FS2_Open is the engine.

[chief1983]

Of course the problem with all the TCs is that while they are free of FS2's IP they are all beholden to someone else's.

The only way to have no risk from making a mod is to start with the source code/executables and make everything else yourself (including the universe the game is set in). While it's obvious that wanted us to make mods the chance always exists that someone may buy who don't want us to. It's remote chance and I'm not in the slightest bit worried about it happening but if you want to be bulletproof then the only thing you should take from FS2_Open is the engine.

Which is what I was trying to say all along

[karajorma]

Yep.

I thought I'd mentioned that I agreed with you.