Author Topic: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!  (Read 86747 times)

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Offline Galemp

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Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Calling all coders! The Freespace artists community has all pitched in, and we're willing to hire a coder to help us!

As you all know, current support for POF files is full of bugs. Everyone except Max and Truespace users have to use third-party applications to convert their model to a POF, sometimes with more than four steps. This means loss of data and geometry errors. Even the 3DS Max exporter has its own problems.

All these problems would be rendered moot with Collada support. As a universal standard to be supported by all modeling packages, it would mean we can convert our models to POF with no geometry errors, no loss of UV mapping, no loss of hierarchy or smooth groups-- in short, set up all the data in our preferred program and then convert it to POF flawlessly.

We have established a bounty fund, to be delivered to the programmer or programmers who can implement a reliable, stable, functional, full-featured and documented Collada import-export system, either as a standalone converter or implemented into an existing POF editor. There's US$250 to be paid! (We expect that if there's significant collaboration, we'll all be mature enough to handle the distribution.)

If you're capable, or if you know of any resources that can help, post here!
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Don't know if this would be of any use, but FCollada is a free collada import/export library.  If nothing else, it would save you the trouble of having to write a parser by hand ;)

 

Offline colecampbell666

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
So you want the FSO engine to support Collada files? OR you want to modify the .POF filetype in some way?
Gettin' back to dodgin' lasers.

 

Offline blowfish

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
So you want the FSO engine to support Collada files? OR you want to modify the .POF filetype in some way?

No, we want the ability to import Collada files into PCS2.  Or some other way to get Collada files into the POF format.  Collada support in the engine would be a ridiculous request :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 11:24:23 am by blowfish »

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
The only problem I've noticed with this, and it took me a while to even think about it, is the quality of the various apps' Collada exporters.  We all know that different apps handle different formats better or worse, so what if every app turns out to have massive collada issues?  Sure it's an XML format, but not all the plugins themselves are available for modification.  So, has anyone tested the Collada exporters yet?  Perhaps a test case could be created, pass a model through all the different applications strictly via collada, and see if the end result is close enough to the start.  And, if enough data can be created and saved in each app, so that most of the POF data could be autogenerated from helpers/etc.
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Offline Galemp

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
The good news is that Collada exporters for Max, Blender, Wings3D, or what have you are all maintained by their own individual authors, and we don't have to worry about them. They'll be steadily improved over time, without any additional help from us. :)
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
But improved with our interests in mind is what we have no control over.  And that's my point, if there's some crippling issue with one of the exporters, who's to say we can get it fixed?  Blender would be one of the most likely I would imagine, but as for the rest, most of which are built with proprietary SDKs and closed code bases, we'd be pretty much at the whim of the author.  I'm not saying they're going to be assholes to us, just that with it out of our control, we would have no way of ensuring continued support for us.  I would at least like to know where the exporters currently stand though, so I still think a test of them as they are now is a good idea, if it hasn't already been performed.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Hmm, guys, IDK if this is of any help at all, but D2X-XL has support for OOF models, as well as ASE scene and model formats of 3D Studio Max.  Forgive me if this doesn't apply or won't help, but D2X-XL is open source, and is based off of Descent 1 / 2, which FreeSpace shares code with, right?  So would it be easy to patch in support using Diedel's work?  Or wouldn't that help at all?

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
But improved with our interests in mind is what we have no control over.  And that's my point, if there's some crippling issue with one of the exporters, who's to say we can get it fixed?  Blender would be one of the most likely I would imagine, but as for the rest, most of which are built with proprietary SDKs and closed code bases, we'd be pretty much at the whim of the author.  I'm not saying they're going to be assholes to us, just that with it out of our control, we would have no way of ensuring continued support for us.  I would at least like to know where the exporters currently stand though, so I still think a test of them as they are now is a good idea, if it hasn't already been performed.

The 3ds MAX and the Maya Collada plugin are open source now(!)
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=136478


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Please PM me in case you want to apply
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Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Well, that covers 3DS Max, Maya, and Blender.  That's the bulk of it right there I'd imagine.  Anything we need changed, hopefully we can manage.  I'm sold then I suppose.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 
Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Hmm, guys, IDK if this is of any help at all, but D2X-XL has support for OOF models, as well as ASE scene and model formats of 3D Studio Max.  Forgive me if this doesn't apply or won't help, but D2X-XL is open source, and is based off of Descent 1 / 2, which FreeSpace shares code with, right?  So would it be easy to patch in support using Diedel's work?  Or wouldn't that help at all?
No, I don't think Freespace and Descent 1/2 code are similar in any significant way. Descent 3, maybe, but I doubt it still.
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
i personally think that pcs2 should support as many formats as possible. collada might be better than cob but then again it might be worse. i like the idea of using an open source format, but if i cant do all the modeling, uv mapping, smoothing, and so on in one program, then export once then run it through pcs2 then im for it. i dont want to have to shuttle data between 3 or 4 programs to convert a model. and frankly as it stands id just rather use the max exporter than to do it that way.
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Offline blowfish

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Max supports Collada export.  As do a lot of other things.  It also looks Collada supports many of the features we need, including smoothing.

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
That's true, and has already been agreed.  My only concern was the quality and openness of the exporters, which seems to be acceptable.  That just leaves the point of this thread, getting support for collada into PCS2, or an interim app to convert it to PMF/POF.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
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#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
i already installed a collada plugin for max. if it supports smoothing that would be awesome. what about heirarchy, naming, and special points (like dummies for autogen)?
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Galemp

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Let it be known that with Collada
...we can convert our models to POF with no geometry errors, no loss of UV mapping, no loss of hierarchy or smooth groups-- in short, set up all the data in our preferred program and then convert it to POF flawlessly.
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
i already installed a collada plugin for max. if it supports smoothing that would be awesome. what about heirarchy, naming, and special points (like dummies for autogen)?

Dummies and special points are supported. Additionally lights can cameras can be saved too, as well as animations.
Heirachy and groups can also be saved. And materials/textures keep their complete paths.

And you can drag and drop collada files into MAX like a *.max file.
--------------------------------------------------
SoL is looking for a sound effect artist
Please PM me in case you want to apply
---------------------------------
Shadows of Lylat - A Freespace 2 total conversion
(hosted by Game-Warden)
----------------------------------

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
thats good. perhaps this is the format we should be using.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Raven2001

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
Galemp, like I told you on my PM, this seems like a wonderfull thing to have.

You have my support :)
Yeah, I know you were waiting for a very nice sig, in which I was quoting some very famous scientist or philosopher... guess what?!? I wont indulge you...

Why, you ask? What, do I look like a Shivan to you?!?


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Offline Galemp

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Re: Cash prize for Collada - POF support!
thats good. perhaps this is the format we should be using.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. :rolleyes: You don't think we'd organize and fund something like this unless we knew it would be worth it, did you?

Anyway, I haven't heard from any coders yet... Kazan? Bobboau? Taylor? Anyone?
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...