Author Topic: under hull damage effects.  (Read 14974 times)

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Offline Al Tarket

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under hull damage effects.
better damage physics for the fs2 scp versions. take for example the below as examples of what i mean.



when a ship is destroyed on FS2 using the SCP, like for example a fenris cruiser, the fenris breaks up into low poly chunks of the former ship, however the game could be further enhanced by such poly additions like randomized under hull damage when breaking up to make it look real. in this shot of the klingon vorcha class, it has been destroyed.





as mentioned above about randomized under hull damage, these shots contain such things. i really think freespace 2 is missing out on such a thing. even if randomized under hull damage can not be done because of the extra time involved, fixed positioning for more realistic damage effects would also be good.

however it can be made an optional thing, for those who have the computer to run such high grade and more realistic effects to give you a much better feeling for freespace 2.

if you cannot to do such a thing, i will cancel my campaigns and get to work modeling such a thing... (more to be said when its right)
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: under hull damage effects.
I already implemented the ability for longlasting hull debris, but it was in the unstable CVS branch, and (apparently) nobody cared enough to ever notice when it was no longer in any EXEs.
-C

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Re: under hull damage effects.
*shrug* I like it

 

Offline Al Tarket

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Re: under hull damage effects.
no, long lasting low poly hull chunks is not what i mean. what i mean is, you get to see a ship break apart, float apart more break off by explosions and after a few seconds wehn the fires are sucked out you get to see the construction steel, individual decks, lights and bulkheads from your fighter view, sharp pieces of wreckage, much the same could happen to a fighter even a freighter.
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Judge these words wisely and you might make it through this cruel world.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Al Tarket, do you have any idea what would be involved in making that work properly? :shaking:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Al Tarket

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Re: under hull damage effects.
dare i say it, if your not up to the task as useful modelers, i will do it and i would need to learn every thing about modeling myself, it will take time however it can be done.
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Judge these words wisely and you might make it through this cruel world.

 

Offline Retsof

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Re: under hull damage effects.
So you pretty much want to HTL the ship debris.
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I can't help but hear a shotgun cocking with this.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: under hull damage effects.
More like something like this, if I'm right:



Internal detail in the models, revelated by the armour plating damage...
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: under hull damage effects.
I already implemented the ability for longlasting hull debris, but it was in the unstable CVS branch, and (apparently) nobody cared enough to ever notice when it was no longer in any EXEs.
Dude, never assume that! We can't possibly test for every feature's presence in every build! :p
In fact I had noticed the debris not acting as it had in some past builds, but was busy testing other features at the time and just assumed either it wasn't in that particular branch I was using, or as has happened _many_ many times in the past; the format for its usage had been changed since then probably to conserve backwards compatability or something.

Remember also that I've put considerable effort into making full hull volume debris for every ship I've built, so having a feature that took advantage of that effort disappear completely is somewhat frustrating.


As for the topic - whether it uses 1) geomod, 2) destroyable chunks of the hull or 3) that IL2 internal detail thing, it's not going to happen because for 1), the amount of work involved in implementing and testing a geomod system is beyond ridiculus, 2) the amount of work, time and effort involved in 'chunkifying' ships is equally ridiculus and would probably seriously reduce the visual quality of the completed ship and 3) would also be a huge amount of work seriously hampered by the engines problems with transparency and would as with 2) require a total rebuild of every ship in the game to take advantage of it.

No, damage decals is the best that could happen. :p
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Offline blackhole

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Quote
dare i say it, if your not up to the task as useful modelers, i will do it and i would need to learn every thing about modeling myself, it will take time however it can be done.

Sure, it can be done... in 10 goddamn years after the entire rendering engine has been rebuilt from scratch.

However, feel free to waste untold hours of your life trying to prove everyone wrong. :p

 

Offline Snail

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Re: under hull damage effects.
dare i say it, if your not up to the task as useful modelers, i will do it and i would need to learn every thing about modeling myself, it will take time however it can be done.
Good luck with that. Get back to me when you give up.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: under hull damage effects.
modeling that sort of stuff isn't THAT bad, BWO has a bomber with 36 debris pieces.
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: under hull damage effects.
modeling that sort of stuff isn't THAT bad, BWO has a bomber with 36 debris pieces.

Quote from: blackhole
10 goddamn years


Quot Erat Demonstrandum, if I dare say...


When do we get to, you know, play with that bomber? :p
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Dark RevenantX

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Well, all one needs is six months to write a program that auto-chunkifies a ship so it can be easily edited to look good...

Yeah, if you want something like that, you're going to have to be a bit more realistic.  You truly don't have any idea how difficult it is to mod an engine to do something else rather than design one to do everything you want from the get-go.

Geomod would be cool, but it's something for FS3.  In other words: never.

 

Offline bfobar

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Re: under hull damage effects.
What is the best that the FSOpen engine could do realistically? HTLing cap ship debris and damage decals?

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Good debris is one thing - you basically are just ripping the LOD1 of the ship apart and filling the newly created holes with various debris textures that are placed on a debris version of the main ships map - where you can go and paint in blast holes revealing the structure beneath and the like.


'Chunkifying' a ship so that you can destroy individual bits of it without destroying the whole thing is much much harder and looks far uglier. This is because each chunk needs to be at least one separate object (two if you want to use live debris where the blown up bit falls off the ship). As such, any smoothing of curved surfaces would be broken up at the boundaries where chunks met - which would look absolutely hideous on vasudan ships.

Then you have to accommodate what would happen if a player blew up the geometry below a turret bank - obviously the turret would either vanish or just float there, and what happens if more than one hull chunk is underneath a turret? As you can imagine this also has the potential to introduce massive balance problems for some missions - such as just blowing off the sath's entire head rather than shooting the beam turrets, but you will also screw up stuff like bounding boxes for the entire model which would need fixing - and I'd be willing to bet more than a few collision detection problems would arise at some point.

On top of this you have the MASSIVE efficiency hit that doing this will cause - not only because of how you will need thousands of extra polys forming the 'insides' of each chunk, but the HTL engine won't be able to render the hull in one go due to it being split into subobjects. Now imagine this combined with texture tiling and think of the efficiency hit there. ;)

Incidentally, this concept has been brought up, shot, stabbed, castrated, hung, skewered, poisoned, drowned, run over and otherwise murdered in horrible ways and subsequently buried quite a few times now. :p
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Offline Rodo

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Incidentally, this concept has been brought up, shot, stabbed, castrated, hung, skewered, poisoned, drowned, run over and otherwise murdered in horrible ways and subsequently buried quite a few times now. :p

Sad as it seems a really good idea, but it's true that it should prove to be a difficult even imposible task to develope from zero.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Galemp

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Yes, a really good idea, in the same way that cold fusion or peace in the middle east is a really good idea.
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Offline Snail

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Doing it just for a few subsystems would be a lot more feasible, I guess. But not completely getting blown off, just changing to another submodel that looks slightly damaged. It's been done before (like on the HTL Hecate). Though Galemp didn't say whether or not it was a ***** to do.

 

Offline Dark RevenantX

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Re: under hull damage effects.
Once we get parallax mapping, we could probably pull off some good blast decals, though.  You never know...