Author Topic: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread  (Read 5617 times)

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
As some of you may have noticed we've released some rules and guidelines we would like everyone to try and follow for any new stuff.  http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,56303.0.html

I figured there would be some questions, comments, and suggestions so I'm starting this thread for discussion on them.

No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
I think it's a good naming convention system. I applaud it :yes:
 
.vp naming is down to authors discretion though i assume so long as the mod folder/.ini system is applied?
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Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
so long as the mod folder/.ini system is applied?
The last time I checked, it isn't. Since usually there aren't any new ships or table changes. Just dump the .vp to the root folder and the campaign will show up in-game.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
We're trying to avoid additional stuff in the root folder.  Lobo you should know all too well that extra files in there make troubleshooting harder.  The only things that should be added to the root are multiplayer .vp files. 

I'd suggest the .vp be naming be similar to the mod or campaign naming. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
.VP contents will follow the convention. :yes: and go in a sub-folder alongside a mod.ini. No worries.
 
Your friendly Orestes tactical controller
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
We're trying to avoid additional stuff in the root folder.  Lobo you should know all too well that extra files in there make troubleshooting harder.
I know that with FSO using mod folders is a must. But at least back when I actually played TBP (roughly six months ago), none of the mods contained any new ships, weapons or tables (because no one wants to defy B5 canon), and therefore new campaigns could be "installed" just by placing the .vp(s) to the root TBP folder. Nothing wrong there. And I seem to recall actually reading instructions on some campaigns (possibly Drums of War) stating that putting the .vp files to the root folder is the correct way.

Yes, using subfolders would do the trick as well. And maybe minimize the cases where a TBP player decides to try FSO and manages to **** up his FreeSpace with improper mod installation. And definitely if an increasing amount of TBP mods actually change certain aspects of the game, instead of merely providing new campaigns.

Do watchu want.

and go in a sub-folder alongside a mod.ini.
Umm, why would we need mod.inis? As far as I know, there are no "MediaVPs" for TBP. Nor anything like FSPort.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
Multiplayer. . . Easier to disable extra stuff that would break it.
Your friendly Orestes tactical controller
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
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http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
I've a specific question about this:
I'm currently working with the model of the EA Nova and have begun adding glowpoints (the current model has none) - and I'll see what I can do about the Moment Of Interia
do I really have to go this as "EA Nova#mod"?
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
If you put the new EA Nova model in a mod, it will override the original model.  But only if the models have the same name and ship class.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
I've a specific question about this:
I'm currently working with the model of the EA Nova and have begun adding glowpoints (the current model has none) - and I'll see what I can do about the Moment Of Interia
do I really have to go this as "EA Nova#mod"?

Yes it has be a mod.  For the best it should be a different .pof name.  You have to look at it from the big picture.  What if someone else want's to make some other changes and call it EA Nova as well?  Now there are 3 different one, then 4, then 5.  Without different names they all end up stepping on each other.  This way the FREDder can choose which one he wants to use and it doesn't have to possibility of breaking any existing missions. 

BTW that doesn't mean you can't put it your existing mod directory.  It also doesn't mean that for EACW (which will need to be in a mod directory) you can't have a .tbm that replaces it EA Nova with the new .pof as it will only effect your campaign.  It might cause some confusion though so if you can keep it consistent it would be a good idea. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
What if someone else want's to make some other changes and call it EA Nova as well?  Now there are 3 different one, then 4, then 5.

exactly.

Naming conventions are extremly important or we will start seeing campaigns with "mission 1", "mission 2", "mission 3" again :no:   SUPPORT HELL!!!
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
I'm a bit confused as to what exactly has been decided, but the course that always made seance with me was, no changes to the existing main release, unless said change is to fix a content bug, and in that case the main release would be amended eventually.

for things like upgraded models (as opposed to fixed models which the end user would not immediately notice but might not notice the problems the no longer broken model no longer has) I figured there would be a mediaVP type solution where there is an overwriting mod which is backwardly compatible with the main release.  and this would take on the main community development.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
Nope that was never the plan.  The mediavp analogy was probably a bad example but it's the only one we have.  This new directory is for validated content for multi only but can be used by anyone.  Any model updates need to be done as a separate mod.  Nothing says you can't put more then one model into a directory.  Now if they are useful for multi we may ask the developer to allow it to be incorporated into the multi directory. 

I'll be updating the rules thread with definitions for all these terms as soon as I get the time to type it up.  Probably won't be until tomorrow as I'm blowing off some steam tonight and hitting the bar. 

Remember were still sorting all of this out so give us a little time.  In the meantime as long as you keep stuff in mod directories and use unique file names you should be fine. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
well like I said, new ship models would be in a mod, a mod designed not to effect game play, but would take precedence over the older files, and being a mod would need to be activated like one. any missions made with the main files would be compatible with the new ones in the upgrade mod. being in a mod would mean that they would only be activated via the user actively selecting it. overriding the original materials means they integrate seamlessly and are backwards compatible.

I guess I'm talking about something completely different than you and what these rules are about here.

and as for bugs in the core files?
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Offline Vidmaster

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
the absolute priority is an yet unamed "update" mod.
Nothing new, nothing fancy, nothing shiny, just plain old fixing.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
I'm a bit confused as to what exactly has been decided, but the course that always made seance with me was, no changes to the existing main release, unless said change is to fix a content bug, and in that case the main release would be amended eventually.

for things like upgraded models (as opposed to fixed models which the end user would not immediately notice but might not notice the problems the no longer broken model no longer has) I figured there would be a mediaVP type solution where there is an overwriting mod which is backwardly compatible with the main release.  and this would take on the main community development.

that's just why I asked....

so I'll be making nova_mod ...
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
For the best it should be a different .pof name.  You have to look at it from the big picture.  What if someone else want's to make some other changes and call it EA Nova as well?  Now there are 3 different one, then 4, then 5.  Without different names they all end up stepping on each other.  This way the FREDder can choose which one he wants to use and it doesn't have to possibility of breaking any existing missions.
Uh, I would strongly disagree with that.  If they're all the same ship, they should all be the same model.  Otherwise you end up in a situation like DLL hell.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
OK but if person X has 5 HTL models in their mod including a Nova and person Y had 3 HTL models including a Nova in their mod and person Z wants to use 3 models from X and the Nova from Y in their campaign without them being named differently then there is no way to differentiate.  With the different names you can easily choose from EA Nova#X EA Nova#Y and the original EA Nova.  The player is none the wiser. 
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
Why would there be more than one Nova model?  The way the regular mediavps work is that all changes are merged into one single standard.

If somebody wants to make campaign-specific changes to a model (like what ST:R did with the Faustus) then he should copy the standard model and make the changes so that they only apply to the one campaign.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: Rules and Guidelines discussion thread
But this isn't the medaivps and there is no project to manage it.  Each individual uses can mod.  If someone doesn't like a particular model they can make a new one.  It's up to the FREDder to choose what he want's to use.  The only thing we are managing is the directory for validated multiplayer content. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras