Author Topic: Big Battle  (Read 2085 times)

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So I was looking around the Tech Room and came across the BP Big Battle single mission. I ran it and watched it happen (it was glorious).

Im interested to see what the outcomes are for multiple tries. Eventually it ended up that the three UEF destroyers survived.

Anyone else want to chime in with how it played out?
"And God said, 'Let there be football'. It came to be, and He saw that it was awesome."

"I played in a death metal band. People either loved us or hated us. Or they thought we were OK."

 

Offline niffiwan

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  • Eluder Class
It's always a UEF victory for me, but keep in mind that:

a) BP devs have repeatedly stated that raw numbers are not a true indication of ship performance (i.e. look at all the armour stuff that goes on in missions)
b) Beams do less damage with low framerates, and BP's massive battle is one of the best framerate killers out there :)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Linux OBS Packages: FSO 3.7.0 | FSO BP Build | wxLauncher (?) | PCS2 (?) | wxVPView (?)
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Then there's the fact that a lot of the capabilities of the ships on both sides aren't involved in this non-scenario.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
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GTVA always wins massively on my end (play the battle on Insane, by the way!)

It's a glorious spectacle, though of course everyone is rather fighting in idiot mode.

 

Offline QuakeIV

  • 28
Yeah, zero maneuvering from both sides.  I got the UEF winning but i get terribru fps in that battle.

 

Offline T-Man

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  • I came... I saw... I had a cuppa!
Oh god yeah stuttering is a nightmare on that. The beam salvo at the very start is insane :lol:.

Playing it on normal usually have just the three Solaris (and on one occasion just 2) surviving; the frigates seem to get torn apart by beam fire but manage to take out the ships that could threaten the destroyers, so they can just torp the remaining ships without danger. Did have one occasion where the GTVA got lucky though (IIRC a Hecate and a couple of Deimos were the survivors that time), and another time I tried to lead the frigates a bit giving them different targets and a about five or six Karunas managed to scrape through.
CAUTION: Rabid Imagination!

self-confessed UEF fanboy.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
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volition bravos cheat hurts that mission.

 
Wait, UEF can win that scenario?? In my end GTVA always wins with a massive difference; it's not even close. I have only played that on medium though.

 

Offline Nagrach

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UEF getting slaughter here aswell, even on Insane.
Crabby the crappy crab crap.

-273 °C. Finally a place where I don't need to sweat.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Wait, UEF can win that scenario?? In my end GTVA always wins with a massive difference; it's not even close. I have only played that on medium though.

Try playing in debug mode; if that drops your framerate below 5.88 then beams will do less damage handing the UEF the advantage  :D
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Linux OBS Packages: FSO 3.7.0 | FSO BP Build | wxLauncher (?) | PCS2 (?) | wxVPView (?)
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Sounds like its time for a new ai_profiles feature:  $Beam Damage Based On Time
Not that changing this behavior in the code would be a simple thing... don't hurt me code-masters.
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline niffiwan

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  • Eluder Class
There's a couple of fairly simple ways to change that:

a) reduce the number of times beam damage is applied per second and scale the damage values appropriately (which could increase the damage of slash beams with a short time on target)
b) scale the beam damage by the amount of time since the last damage was applied (this could *increase* beam damage at low FPS, again most noticeable with slashers that have a short time on target)

Having said that, at <6 fps you've got a whole lot of other problems flying effectively anyway, so IMHO there's not that much point in changing it.

(also note that time compression also affects this, beam damage starts decreasing at higher FPS values the higher you set time compression)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Linux OBS Packages: FSO 3.7.0 | FSO BP Build | wxLauncher (?) | PCS2 (?) | wxVPView (?)
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
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The issue is, as niffiwan noted, theoretically "fixable", but since the problem requires <6 FPS, it's generally not considered worth the effort.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
I think the battle needs several dozen fighters and bombers, because my computer isn't crying hard enough.

Also, if you have all of the durgas and UEF craft committed to the battle, it's plausible to imagine the UEF actually winning without resorting to universe hacks like nerfing beam damage by killing framerate.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Wow... adding all the fighters as well... 6 destroyers (or are there more GTVA destroyers?) worth of fighter wings, plus the wings from the Karuna's and the Diomedes... I'm sure that'll drive any computer below 6 fps :)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Linux OBS Packages: FSO 3.7.0 | FSO BP Build | wxLauncher (?) | PCS2 (?) | wxVPView (?)
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
At some point I figured out a rough approximation of the numbers - they were somewhere in the thousands.

 
Ok, so the result is fps based. That explains everything :P

I just tested again and confirmed that my minimum fps was 15, and that was straight in the beginning with all the beams. Naturally it starts to slowly go up after ships get destroyed.

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
At some point I figured out a rough approximation of the numbers - they were somewhere in the thousands.

That sounds like a hell of a lot of fighters. Even to Colossus can only carry about 150 spaceframes at once.

  

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Quote from: ages past
Assuming 12 fighters for Karunas, [fudged]12 fighters for Narayanas[/fudged], and 192 fighters for Solaris destroyers:
12(21) + 12(14) + 192(3) =  996 fighters in the UEF fleet (around 62 squadrons) (not stationed on an installation)

Assuming 96 fighters on an Orion, 150 for a Hecate, [megafudged] 200 for a Titan, 96 for a Raynor, and 12 for a Diomedes: [/megafudged]
96(1)+150(2)+200(1)+96(1)+12(4)= 740 in the Sol Expeditionary Force arsenal (around 46 squadrons)
So, for mobile platforms 1736 fighters. Roughly

EDIT

Collie could carry 240 fighters IIRC