Author Topic: Terror in Munich  (Read 15097 times)

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Offline Deathsnake

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 02:03:37 pm by Deathsnake »
Star Citizen No. 250

 
And let's hope that will be the final number :/

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Today is the 5th anniversary of Breivik attack. Maybe a copycat? Or another islamist attack?
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Offline Deathsnake

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Don't know. Here is a Video of one of them

Goes out of McDonalds, take the gun and open fire. The guy from the Video "how ill is he?" and then "he is coming our way - run!"

http://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/muenchen-schuetze-46953660.bild.html
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 02:31:34 pm by Deathsnake »
Star Citizen No. 250

 

Offline The E

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According to police, the single attacker (initial reports were talking about 3 attackers, but that was apparently a result of confusion) took his own life. He is a German national of Iranian descent, but nothing regarding his motives has been made public yet.
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Offline The E

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According to the police press conference, the perpetrator was apparently undergoing therapy for psychological issues, and was "researching amok runs". There is no evidence so far of any connection to IS or other terror groups.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
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 So can we exclude religious motives? I heard that kid had some family issues.


Meh... I sense another political sh*****rm titled "hurrr durrr ban the evil guns even harder" :rolleyes:

 

Offline Dragon

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"Researching amok runs?" If so, that was some dedication to his research... Anyway, either he came across some eldritch mysteries in his research that drove him mad (yes, I did read a lot of Lovecraft lately :)) or he was just plain bonkers from the start. The question is, who allowed a guy undergoing psychological therapy to get a gun? That sort of thing will disqualify you even in most of the US, nevermind Germany.

TBH, the Iranian descent is probably a coincidence. The only way that could connected (that I can see) would be his family issues being caused by some sort of cultural incompatibility. On the other hand, he could very well be a Breivik copycat, which seems somewhat more likely to me. Or just a plain madman without any agenda. At least it was a shopping center and not a school. I hope more information surfaces soon. I really don't think Islamists have anything to do with it, though. Of course, telling that to public opinion will be another matter.

 

Offline The E

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"Researching amok runs?" If so, that was some dedication to his research... Anyway, either he came across some eldritch mysteries that drove him mad (yes, I did read a lot of Lovecraft lately :)) or he was just plain bonkers from the start. The question is, who allowed a guy undergoing psychological therapy to get a gun? That sort of thing will disqualify you even in most of the US, nevermind Germany.

He didn't go mad from some revelation, he was likely just suffering from depression in one form or another.

It is at this time unclear how he obtained the weapon and ammo he used, but it wasn't legally; the investigation is still ongoing.
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Offline Bobboau

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IS has been using Anonymous tactics for a while now. IS doesn't provide any material support, or issue orders, they simply give out ideas for plans, instructions for how to do things, and inspire people to carry them out. This is exactly how Anonymous attacked scientology in 2008, except that was protests and info dumps, this is murder sprees. Best part is there is no direct link to them, so there is no stopping it.
I can drive an hour and buy an AR-15 and a bunch of ammo, I can easily make Molotovs, slightly less easily build some pipe bombs. The hardest thing for me to obtain is someone willing to die in order to kill, that is the limiting resource.
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Offline The E

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So an attack that, going by what has been publicised so far, had nothing to do with IS and all to do with one man's mental health issues, has actually been orchestrated by IS.

Got it.

Bobboau: Ah, I get it! IS is causing terrorism the same way Videogames are causing violence! It's all clear to me now!

(In other words, in case the above sarcasm wasn't coming through loud and clear: Leave the conspiracy theories to the Trumps, please.)
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Offline 666maslo666

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I believe Bobbau is correct, ISIS causes violence mostly by inspiring muslims to commit atrocities in their name (which is very hard to stop). Videogames dont inspire violence, lol, I dont even know why you are bringing that up.

That said, in this particular case I have yet to see any evidence that ISIS or islam is to blame. It is possible to make a connection to liberal immigration policies, since the shooter was Iranian, but even that is debatable.
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Offline The E

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I believe Bobbau is correct, ISIS causes violence mostly by inspiring muslims to commit atrocities in their name (which is very hard to stop). Videogames dont inspire violence, lol, I dont even know why you are bringing that up.

Because it's the same stupid logic. IS is telling muslims to commit terror, and because young muslims are apparently eminently susceptible for that sort of thing, terrorism happens. It's bull****. Just like the idea that young westerners are being violent because of all the Halo they're playing is bull****.

In any case, that's a discussion for another thread. Given how this year's been going, I am reasonably sure that an excuse to bring it up will present itself shortly.
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Offline 666maslo666

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Because it's the same stupid logic. IS is telling muslims to commit terror, and because young muslims are apparently eminently susceptible for that sort of thing, terrorism happens. It's bull****. Just like the idea that young westerners are being violent because of all the Halo they're playing is bull****.

That logic is sound when it comes to IS.

But not when it comes to video games, because Halo is not telling anyone to kill real people, it merely depicts killing made up characters.

Your analogy is comparing apples and oranges.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Dragon

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He didn't go mad from some revelation, he was likely just suffering from depression in one form or another.

It is at this time unclear how he obtained the weapon and ammo he used, but it wasn't legally; the investigation is still ongoing.
It was a joke, in those stories it's often waved off as "depression in one form or another" (or rather the early 20th century equivalent) and the like. The subject of his "research" was a bit strange, which is why I thought of this.

It'd be very interesting to find out who sold him a gun. Illegal guns tend not to be cheap, at least from what I heard, and they require dealing with seriously shady types. I don't know what kind of therapy he was undergoing, but I think someone should've noticed something...
That said, in this particular case I have yet to see any evidence that ISIS or islam is to blame. It is possible to make a connection to liberal immigration policies, since the shooter was Iranian, but even that is debatable.
He was of Iranian descent. For all we know, he was living in Germany his entire life. If there is some connection to his origins, it'd most likely be a clash of cultural values between his family and the rest of German society. If, for example, he was often forced to chose between what his family expected and what his friends expected (and endure the scorn of the ones he didn't choose), this could have put a dent in his psyche.
Best part is there is no direct link to them, so there is no stopping it.
That's where your theory falls flat, actually. ISIS doesn't care about anyone trying to stop them. That, and they want attacks to be linked to them. They operate more like a cult than Anon, really. ISIS may give stupids ideas to some idiots, but really, what they're actually doing through social media is recruiting people so that they come to them for training. They're inspiring amateurs, allright, but they're inspiring them to come to them and learn, not to act on their own.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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If there is some connection to his origins, it'd most likely be a clash of cultural values between his family and the rest of German society.

Thats what I meant.

They're inspiring amateurs, allright, but they're inspiring them to come to them and learn, not to act on their own.

They are inspiring them to do both. ISIS propaganda is full of calls for lone wolfs to commit attacks in the West on their own.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
IS is telling muslims to commit terror, and because young muslims are apparently eminently susceptible for that sort of thing, terrorism happens.

We wouldn't be in this situation if young Muslims weren't conspicuously susceptible to 'that sort of thing'.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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We wouldn't be in this situation if young Muslims weren't conspicuously susceptible to 'that sort of thing'.

Just like young white guys were conspicuously susceptible to shooting up schools for five years after Columbine.

You're approaching the idea this is some kind of infectious behavior backwards. After the DC sniper killings there was a rash of people who went out and shot other people from a distance with a rifle, for no other reason than because they'd seen somebody  do it that way on the news. It could have been a knife or handgun or car, but it was a rifle because that was "trendy".

White kids shot up schools rather than just themselves or their families because that was the in thing for violent and suicidal white kid.

Muslim kids are going for high body counts and spectacular because everyone they hear about who sounds like them and doing violent stuff did it too.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Everyone complains that ISIS is more a threat, that they're oh so scary and dangerous, because of this. And I can only find it darkly amusing, because the harder the maslos of the world say that ISIS is a greater threat now that it was before, the more they are wrong and the dumber they look.

It's provable fact that this is a strategy of weakness and desperation, born of the inability to accomplish the goals they originally set out for, trying to stay relevant in a world that's turned against them and as they see their final impotence approach. How?

It's all going the same way that the white supremacists went.

First there was the Ku Klux Klan; they were large, scary, organized, with titles and leadership and members and money. They rose and fell with the times and the perceived need a few times. But people stopped tolerating them eventually. Because they were organized, they were vulnerable. A line of command is a line of responsibility, moral and legal. A leader is one who, when removed, leaves the rest of the organization weaker for their absence. And the power-grabbers all moved in too as the pressure mounted, and there was schism and collapse.

Many groups followed in the wake of it all. Many even named themselves the Klan, and today there are a dozen or more "Klans", most of which are opposed to each other. They were and are dangerous to those who cross their paths on an individual level, but incapable of the massive campaigns of oppression and murder that their forerunner was.

The next to become of true account was the Aryan Nations, in the early '80s. They had a new ideology, Christian Identity, and a new concept, brought to them ironically by someone not of their group who had suffered his own defeats in the traditional area. (It is to this man, Louis Beam, that we owe the very phrase "lone wolves" we use to describe what goes on today, and it is his playbook of "leaderless resistance" that describes how this is all happening.) There would be a central core, but only tenuous ties. They would bring many groups together, forge links, but not command. Encouragement and basic informational help would be offered, but no one would ask and no one would tell. Yet in this environment, less got done, because nobody had to do it. There was plenty of talking a good game, but the scale of action shrank drastically. From lynching and church bombing that was so endemic it passed almost without comment, they were reduced to the occasional murder, shooting up of a community center, and armored car robbery.

Then in the '90s, at the seeming height of their power, their effectiveness suddenly started to wane even as their reach seemingly grew. They were everywhere. But doing little. It began to tell. They started to fissure under increased law enforcement pressure and reduced recruitment in reaction to their "successes" in the late '80s. In 2000 Aryan Nations broke, and never recovered. Like the Klan, there are many remainders, fighting mostly over who is truly Aryan Nations, many of them existing as little more than a website and perhaps a dozen people, and all of them accomplishing little.

There will be no race war, no glorious victory on the field of battle. The dream is dead and the dreamer crippled. All that is left is mindless violence, spastic, uncoordinated, and ultimately small in scope. It is a violence born of hopelessness, not in any sense that there was no hope for the doer, but that there is no hope for it to have meaning, no hope for it accomplish anything. It is violence born of the realization that all they have taken upon themselves and all they stand for will be nullified, and so in a nihilistic last stand they try to nullify a few other people before they too see the sum effort and meaning of their lives come to nothing.

Change a few names and dates and you have the history of Islamic terrorism, from Islamic Jihad to al-Qaeda to Daesh. We're watching these stages play out before our eyes.
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Offline 666maslo666

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Quote
Just like young white guys were conspicuously susceptible to shooting up schools for five years after Columbine.

Were they?

Quote
Though the perpetrators of school shootings are often said to be almost exclusively white males, this is misleading. A study of 48 shooters found that though white males constituted 79% of secondary school shooters, white males were actually a minority among college and other adult perpetrators.[15] There is significant racial, ethnic, and gender diversity among school shooters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Profiling

It's all going the same way that the white supremacists went.

It is going the opposite way so far. Several decades ago, there was no large scary organized islamic terrorist state in the middle east, and no regular islamist attacks in the West. Now there are. Islamic terror is getting steadily worse and more powerful, not less.

You are equating two different things - white suprematism and islamic terrorism. There is no deep reason to do that. And you even think this is some kind of a "provable fact". Well, your threshold for calling something a fact must be very low, then. Id say it is just speculation and guesswork. Maybe, maybe not.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.