Author Topic: Berlin Terror  (Read 15506 times)

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Offline Mikes

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In case you haven't seen yet: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/20/world/europe/berlin-attack-christmas-market.html?_r=0

Still kinda in shock.

Of course pretty much everyone over here knew there was the "threat" of something like this happening.
But that threat was more or less not real / surreal, until yesterday.

 
I'm appalled by the rather vultural reaction by the dutch and british far right, surprised by the german's ability to keep calm and carry on and also just sad.

 
The far right are doing a great job of making sure these terror attacks are successful in their strategic objective.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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I'm appalled by the rather vultural reaction by the dutch and british far right, surprised by the german's ability to keep calm and carry on and also just sad.

The German far right is at with full force too... and calm isn't that abundant either, esspecially among the Conservatives (the bavarian prime minister was quick to re-take the field with his anti-immigration stance, for example) ...

The media's calm has a lot to do with lessons learned over the past two years (maybe even longer); recently it seems there have been a lot mlre stories that sparked viseral reactions from "the audience", esspecially over issues like.migration and refugees, that lead to the development of a sense of responsibilty...
 however there are the usual suspects doing their usual thing (e.g. Bild supposidly titled "ANGST!" - for those not in the know: Bild is more a tabloid but highly popular due to their style of reporting)

Additionally, police failing their PR in wake of major crimes is as a common as everywhere else but the Berlin and Federal police seemed to have learned from the PR failure the police in Munich crwated after a mass shooting earlier this year..

On the other hand if it were any other city things might be different:
The common prejudice against the citizens of Berlin is that they are hard to disturb and rather defiant bordering to dismissiveness. That image helps to cultivate a sense of calm as everyone outside Berlin can basically "rest assured" that it hit the wrong people to be effective.
It is also a good thing that there is an abundance of Berlin citizens to help back up this view in this time. Berlin's communities have a long history of "making due with each other" and standing together despite the differences (since they are really abundant) is a rich tradition which no gentrification has been able to erase so far.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 01:54:58 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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Offline Luis Dias

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I'm appalled by the rather vultural reaction by the dutch and british far right, surprised by the german's ability to keep calm and carry on and also just sad.

Got any links? I'm curious. It isn't surprising in the least though, their strategy is to take advantage of any terror attack so they can prop up their message of nationalism and nativism, it's a ****ing given they will respond almost gleefully to any attack of this sort.

 

Offline Mika

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I'm appalled by the rather vultural reaction by the dutch and british far right, surprised by the german's ability to keep calm and carry on and also just sad.

I think there are two factors here: first, the right wing media is actually making noise in Germany, it just took them some time. The other factor is the hate speech legalization in Germany. It's one of the easiest ways to get in legal trouble in Germany, so just to make sure, a lot of people will not express their actual feelings regarding this in the public. Media being "responsible" is another thing, but I think the hate speech legalization has far more to do with the calm in Germany than the media itself.

From what I have heard, there's also considerably less popular support for the acceptance of the refugees in Germany than the international and German media tries to portray.
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 
I'm appalled by the rather vultural reaction by the dutch and british far right, surprised by the german's ability to keep calm and carry on and also just sad.

Got any links? I'm curious. It isn't surprising in the least though, their strategy is to take advantage of any terror attack so they can prop up their message of nationalism and nativism, it's a ****ing given they will respond almost gleefully to any attack of this sort.

Karajorma already linked Farage's response in the other thread. Geert Wilders's response (the dutch nationalist who tweets more in english then any other politician here) was a lot simpler.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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The far right are doing a great job of making sure these terror attacks are successful in their strategic objective.

Oh, really? Well then you leave me no other option but to point out the obvious that the left is doing an even greater job of that. Several decades of ongoing leftist immigration policies is what created the underlying conditions leading to regular islamist attack in western Europe. Great job indeed.

 :rolleyes:
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**** off maslo and stick to threads on things you have the capacity to understand, like rock collecting.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
 

Offline 666maslo666

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**** off maslo and stick to threads on things you have the capacity to understand, like rock collecting.

Dont you worry, if you proceed to spew nonsense about basic minerals on this poor forum, both me and my mental capacity shall be there to set things right. :D

But right now, I feel like this is the topic where my valuable input is needed the most..
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Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Scotty

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**** off maslo and stick to threads on things you have the capacity to understand, like rock collecting.

Dont you worry, if you proceed to spew nonsense about basic minerals on this poor forum, both me and my mental capacity shall be there to set things right. :D

But right now, I feel like this is the topic where my valuable input is needed the most..

I disagree.  Your input is neither needed nor desired, especially if you're going to come in here and spew your rhetoric again.  Get out.

 

Offline zookeeper

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Objection. I need and desire maslo's input.

 
You can get a roughly similar input by rerouting the outflow of a septic tank.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline zookeeper

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You can get a roughly similar input by rerouting the outflow of a septic tank.

Well don't get me wrong, I need and desire your input too; no need to reroute anything.

 

Offline zookeeper

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To get back on topic, it doesn't seem worth pointing out that this or that part of the political spectrum tries to take advantage of any event that they can (the far-right/anti-immigration/etc/etc part in this case); that's kind of a given, of course pretty much everyone does it and there's few who could cast the first stone. The only thing that seems relevant is whether one is being a colossal ass about it, which of course certainly seems to be the case for Farage and Wilders here.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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To get back on topic, it doesn't seem worth pointing out that this or that part of the political spectrum tries to take advantage of any event that they can (the far-right/anti-immigration/etc/etc part in this case); that's kind of a given, of course pretty much everyone does it and there's few who could cast the first stone. The only thing that seems relevant is whether one is being a colossal ass about it, which of course certainly seems to be the case for Farage and Wilders here.

I think PH's point was less about the taking advantage and more about the fact that the political far-right is in fact making these attacks MORE effective.

The entire purpose of terrorism is (if you'll forgive me paraphrasing a mass-murdering scumbag) to cause terror.  A visceral reaction of fear to terrorism makes it MORE effective, not less.  Clamping down on civil liberties, fundamental freedoms, and minority populations is *precisely* what terrorists want to achieve when they carry out these attacks, and this is exactly what the political right would have countries do.  Maslo is a case study in this - he and his ilk would sacrifice the basic tenets of an open, democratic nation in the name of security and do precisely what the flavour-of-the-week-terrorist-assholes carrying out these attacks want to see done.  The more the West clamps down, the more victory notches they can carve (and the more potential victims remain to be abused in their territories).

Carrying on with our lives WHILE expressing outrage and legally hunting down the perpetrators defeats the point in the attacks entirely.  It seems that a basic tenet of the British defense during the 1940s is intellectually beyond the modern political right/far-right (depending on country), which is a sad state of affairs indeed.  The US mounted a case study in what not to do domestically after a major terrorist strike, and France has meandered along the same lines somewhat.  Germany has mounted a fairly rational response thus far; it remains to be seen what happens now.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 08:59:18 pm by MP-Ryan »
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Offline niffiwan

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Can you expand on this? Are you talking about the UK response to the Blitz? I'm not familiar with any other terrorist attacks during the 40's.

It seems that a basic tenet of the British defense during the 1940s...
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Offline Unknown Target

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The far right are doing a great job of making sure these terror attacks are successful in their strategic objective.

Oh, really? Well then you leave me no other option but to point out the obvious that the left is doing an even greater job of that. Several decades of ongoing leftist immigration policies is what created the underlying conditions leading to regular islamist attack in western Europe. Great job indeed.

 :rolleyes:

While I agree that open immigration policies leave Germany and other Western nations more open to attacks by individuals with self-centered mindsets and a chronic lack of education, can you see the side of the Western "leftists", as you call them?

 

Offline 666maslo666

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While I agree that open immigration policies leave Germany and other Western nations more open to attacks by individuals with self-centered mindsets and a chronic lack of education, can you see the side of the Western "leftists", as you call them?

Maybe a little. You see, I have always advocated a two pronged approach of strict immigration policy AND treating legal immigrants excellently. Both of those are needed to address this issue. So I can agree that actual nazis being in parliament certainly doesnt help things.

Yet I also believe that what the west calls "far right" is *mostly* not an actual far right but merely a group of parties that dont want open borders madness to continue. If this "far right" somehow got to power, they wouldnt actually abuse minorities, as some of people here like to believe.

And in the end, strict immigration policy is a much more effective way to prevent the rise of terrorism than trying to appease the migrants. Which is why there are no islamist attacks in eastern Europe, despite what some of you call "far right" being the mainstream policy here. So if I am forced to choose between these two approaches to addressing terrorism, then so-called "far" right (in reality just a center-right) it is.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 12:00:11 am by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.