Author Topic: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)  (Read 5637 times)

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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
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Loading model 'nothing.pof' into slot '13'I'm guessing nothing.pof probably lacks any kind of model geometry, going by the name...
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

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<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
3.7.4 has not only a new renderer (with deferred lighting and soft shadows), but also fixes a lot of errors. There are also plenty of new features for modders, though obviously that's less important unless people would be interested in making new content for TBP. However, the bugfixes alone are worth the update; if there are any other errors with a recent build, they should be fixable. Just post about 'em and let's see if we can't fix them all.

While that's definitely true, the main reason for going for 3.7.4 is because if we do find a problem that is caused by an actual bug we'd have to release and support our own version of 3.7.0 with that bug fix. I've been down that road before and it's dumb idea to start out on it again when as you say 3.7.4 is already a better build anyway.
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Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
While that's definitely true, the main reason for going for 3.7.4 is because if we do find a problem that is caused by an actual bug we'd have to release and support our own version of 3.7.0 with that bug fix.

Agreed. But right now I can't even start one mission with 3.7.4 and while I managed to create the Star Fury patch by fixing obvious problems in the mission files, all these errors caused by the main game files are over my head! I hope some of you can fix those...

 
Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
It would be great to see this game updated but I agree it is going to take some of the experts to help fix these errors.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Agreed. But right now I can't even start one mission with 3.7.4 and while I managed to create the Star Fury patch by fixing obvious problems in the mission files, all these errors caused by the main game files are over my head! I hope some of you can fix those...

Sure. I'll finally have time to get started on things this week. The error you have appears in any Star Fury pilot mission?


Also, am I right in assuming that The Babylon Project doesn't have a SVN? It would probably be a good idea to get one if that is the case. Collaboration is going to be a PITA otherwise.
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Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Sure. I'll finally have time to get started on things this week. The error you have appears in any Star Fury pilot mission?

I think it happened with one of the First Ones campaign too, so I guess it's a common TBP or Zathras problem.

Quote
Also, am I right in assuming that The Babylon Project doesn't have a SVN?

Maybe some of the original developers are still around. What is a SVN? Some kind of bug tracker?

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
What is a SVN? Some kind of bug tracker?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Subversion

While designed for tracking changes to source codes, many FSO based projects use it to to manage mod files under development. It provides a way to collaborate on file changes, distribute those changes, and provides backups of every version of the file in the "repository".

Contrast that with Mantis; TBP bug tracker
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Linux OBS Packages: FSO 3.7.0 | FSO BP Build | wxLauncher (?) | PCS2 (?) | wxVPView (?)
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Personally, these days, I feel git works a lot better than SVN, and github hosts the repository for you, meaning free cloud backup. Only reason I don't use it for my web dev stuff yet is that I haven't figured out how to write a PHP script to pull changes from a git repo to be called by a post commit hook the way I can with SubVersion.
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those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

Offline The E

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Personally, these days, I feel git works a lot better than SVN, and github hosts the repository for you, meaning free cloud backup. Only reason I don't use it for my web dev stuff yet is that I haven't figured out how to write a PHP script to pull changes from a git repo to be called by a post commit hook the way I can with SubVersion.

While I agree that git is generally better, it is much easier to explain how to work with an svn to people who aren't software developers (plus, FS2 mods and total conversions can quickly become too large for free hosting providers like github).
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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Point. I mean, there is at least one whole game project I know of hosted on git, but a mod might get too big, possibly. Naev really isn't that large a project...
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Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Okay, I don't think we need to discuss a system like this unless we would need to coordinate many people. Which I doubt we'll ever do as even the original developers have vanished and there are only very few people left. I'm maintaining the VTM: Bloodlines Unofficial Patch for over ten years now and it's basically me doing the fixes that others report. So as it seems that karajorma is the guy with the most FS2 knowledge here it could work that we give him our error reports and he fixes them. Or maybe someone else helps him out but it could all be done using this forum and nothing else! But for this I recommend we should at least open up a new thread like "TBP 3.5" or similar ;)...

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
The advantage of SVN is that when I fix something (or any other coder or modder), everyone else can immediately update the affected resource. Otherwise it would require lots of patches to make things work. Which is rather a PITA to deal with.

I don't mind seeing how we get along without it at first though.
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Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
I don't mind seeing how we get along without it at first though.

So is anyone able to fix the nothing.pof model which seems to break the latest FS2 versions?

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Ooh, TBP activity.  Would've missed this if not for the newsletter, I should read those more often.  Another distribution idea that might or might not be a good idea is the Nebula/Knossos mod manager.  I believe it was created with the ability that any standalone could use it for managing an installation.  If someone is interested in taking a look at this with me it'd be awesome, because I was also contemplating its use for FotG's release, as that's one of the major things blocking it currently (hint hint).  But if it doesn't look like a good road to go down, no problem.  Just reminding people it exists.  As I've learned Python and some of the other involved technologies since Nebula/Knossos were initially developed, if there's work needed to get them usable I might be able to contribute towards that effort now.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Seems like it would need quite a bit of work to get running. On top of that, if it requires Linux, I'm not going to be able to use it as my only Linux machines are Raspberry/Banana Pi's which I SSH into. 

But I would love a cross platform installer solution.
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Offline chief1983

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
No Linux required, but a PHP server environment and a Python client environment would be needed to run all aspects of the system.  Personally I use Vagrant if all I have access to is a Windows machine these days and I need a PHP server.
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Offline Vidmaster

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
It always amazes me that there is still a small but dedicated group of people willing to keep this thing running :-)
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Offline chief1983

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Well there are almost as many campaigns for it as FS2 so I hope it keeps going :)
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline wesp5

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
Okay, so if we can't fix the FSO 3.7.4 issues, we should at least do a TBP 3.5 with all finished campaigns and FSO 3.7.0 included which is known to run with the latest Zathras version! This would only mean to collect all files that should be included and create an installer. If there is enough interest in this, we could latter update to a newer FSO version if we want to. We won't be able to update to the latest FSO engine all the time anyway ;)!

Speaking of interest, I tried the free Elite Dangerous Arena version yesterday and I was quite disappointed. I know Elite is more a game about trading and stuff, but the arena wants to be a space combar simulator and it falls quite short of TBP in my eyes! The mouse controls are bad, the tutorials are unfinished and the graphics and ships are nothing special either. In my opinion good old TBP compares well and should use the current hype!

 

Offline The E

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Re: TBP 3.5 Work in Progress (Split from Star Fury Pilot Unofficial Patch 2.0 released!)
I ran TBP through a cursory check yesterday, and there was only one breaking bug that has to be fixed. I very strongly recommend investing the two or three hours it takes to fix them, rather than shipping something on an engine version we no longer support.

Essentially, what I am asking you to do is to not make IPAndrews-level mistakes with this thing. You can and should do better.
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