[Mikes]

And some of this prejudice was even somewhat warranted, because eastern Europe was indeed temporarily a bit of a crime exporter in the turbulent years after the fall of communism. I think things changed for the better, tough.

Eastern Germany would like to have a word with you regarding Polish gangs.

A few years back yes. There was a plague of thieves "raiding" the German towns near the border stealing cars and many other things. The loudest case was a Polish-Ukrainian gang which robbed a farm, taking lots of agricultural equipment. Property's owner lost more then 1 million Euros. What's most interesting, the burglaries are mostly not made by the locals but gangs or individuals from deeper territories. But now I can tell it's pretty quiet. Says a guy who lives within a stone-throw distance from Polish-German border.

Well maybe that border is quiet, but what about burglaries going through the roof from 2005 - 2015?

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article153790063/Zahl-der-Wohnungseinbrueche-steigt-um-zehn-Prozent.html

[The E]

This is a tangent that should be discussed in its own thread, if at all.

[Luis Dias]

It's so ironic and sad to see the left going all ageist and disgusted by the poor after so many decades trying to be the banner of these people. Of course, they were also name-calling everyone as bigoted racists, and still are, as if they didn't get the memo that this is an election-losing strategy. The left won't learn, because the left part of our brains is just stubburnly stupid like that. So prepare to see the left raining down on Trumpsters as being bigoted racists and then risk having the entire moderate opinion go all "Ah **** you I ain't no racist" and decide to vote against Hillary.

Come on, Left, you know you wanna do this. Just keep on calling everyone bigoted and racist and sexist, it will all be fine in the coming zombie apocalypse.


Yes, you got it. I blame this **** 49/49, 49 on Juncker and his eurocrat cronies who have been doing a horrible, terrible job in Europe ****ing the entire union taking it for granted, 49 on the left who has completely lost the plot and decided to be just despicable against the majority of people in our western world because apparently, they are white or men or whatever it is that it is their sin du jour. And the remaining 2 on the Farage moron. Yes, I only give 2 to this idiot. He deserves no more credit than that.

So go on, Left, continue being despicable and see where it leaves you and the rest of the world: in the hands of the Trumps and the Boris of this world. I'll ****ing love, just LOVE that future. Me and my Colt's bullet in my ****ing brain.

[666maslo666]

To bring it back to this because I brought it on a tangent (oops). But a lot of the leave campaign focused on things like this. UKIP blames the EU for immigrants outside of the EU entering the UK, despite Britain having full control over non-EU citizens entering the UK. It's defenitely praying upon racist fears.

It is true that Brexit wont help with non-EU immigration.

But the EU had an opportunity here to prove euroskeptics wrong by trying to really secure its outside borders, because such supranational issues as immigration crisis is exactly why we have the union. Instead EU elites pushed for quotas, fines for rejecting migrants and criticised Hungary for its fence. So it is only natural that UK citizens who are undecided and see such shameful displays like Calais coming from the EU will then gravitate towards voting "Leave". If not for the botched migration crisis, we may very well be celebrating a victory of the "Remain" option right now. And thats one thing that needs to be reformed to ensure that future copycat referendums fail.

[headdie]

To bring it back to this because I brought it on a tangent (oops). But a lot of the leave campaign focused on things like this. UKIP blames the EU for immigrants outside of the EU entering the UK, despite Britain having full control over non-EU citizens entering the UK. It's defenitely praying upon racist fears.

It is true that Brexit wont help with non-EU immigration.

But the EU had an opportunity here to prove euroskeptics wrong by trying to really secure its outside borders, because such supranational issues as immigration crisis is exactly why we have the union. Instead EU elites pushed for quotas, fines for rejecting migrants and criticised Hungary for its fence. So it is only natural that UK citizens who are undecided see such shameful displays like Calais coming from the EU and then gravitate towards voting "Leave". If not for the botched migration crisis, we may very well be celebrating a victory of the "Stay" option right now. And thats one thing that needs to be reformed to ensure that future copycat referendums fail.

People voted exit because
1) longstanding political doctrine that all non english nationals in england are a uniform detriment to society and the economy
2) Promises of diverting 350 million per week into public services which has already been suggested wont happen
3) EU president said there wont be reform if the UK remained

[NeonShivan]

So for someone who doesn't live in Europe nor pays attention to European politics (which I probably should start but I'm more concerned for our disaster of a political system in the US to really care), could someone explain to me why this could be good or bad for Britain?

[karajorma]

Hang on a second. Does anyone seriously believe that the UK being out of Europe is going to make the French police try harder to prevent immigrants crossing the Channel?

[Luis Dias]

You're missing the point. The next agenda is to build a wall. Because obviously.

[Grizzly]

To bring it back to this because I brought it on a tangent (oops). But a lot of the leave campaign focused on things like this. UKIP blames the EU for immigrants outside of the EU entering the UK, despite Britain having full control over non-EU citizens entering the UK. It's defenitely praying upon racist fears.

It is true that Brexit wont help with non-EU immigration.

But the EU had an opportunity here to prove euroskeptics wrong by trying to really secure its outside borders, because such supranational issues as immigration crisis is exactly why we have the union. Instead EU elites pushed for quotas, fines for rejecting migrants and criticised Hungary for its fence. So it is only natural that UK citizens who are undecided and see such shameful displays like Calais coming from the EU will then gravitate towards voting "Leave". If not for the botched migration crisis, we may very well be celebrating a victory of the "Remain" option right now. And thats one thing that needs to be reformed to ensure that future copycat referendums fail.

Hungary deserves some of the blame for that: It recieves tons of funding from the EU yet refuses to offer even a token support (I mean, it's quota was...  1,294). It's a clear cut case of an entity wanting to recieve the benefits of an institution without wanting to do any of the work.

So for someone who doesn't live in Europe nor pays attention to European politics (which I probably should start but I'm more concerned for our disaster of a political system in the US to really care), could someone explain to me why this could be good or bad for Britain?

Well, the first clear cut case that springs to mind is that Britian, being both anglophone and part of the EU, houses the headquarters of a lot of companies that seek to establish a foothold in the EU. These companies have no cause to be there when it ends. In a similar vein, a lot of car companies like BMW have factories in Britian thanks to the EU free trade agreements - without those agreements, those factories may be closed.

In essence, Britian has been part of the EU for a very long time and it's economy has been built around being a part of the EU. This manouvre pulls the rug out from under the whole structure.

[NGTM-1R]

It's so ironic and sad to see the left going all ageist and disgusted by the poor after so many decades trying to be the banner of these people.

You sound surprised to realize what Trump and "the Left" have known all along; that old working-class white people consistently vote against their own interests.

Where have you been the last decade? Where were you when Bernie was trying to turn out the college kids? Where were you when Obama did turn out the college kids eight years ago? How about the last Bush midterms? The articles that were discussing the fact the poorest states in the Union were the ones most likely to vote for people who cut their social safety nets I remember from about the first time I started reading the newspaper, in Northern Virginia, a couple of decades ago now?

This is admittedly a new and interesting way for a nation to suffer for its demographics, but it is in no way surprising, and your prescription for the future in no way rational, much as your failure to understand a situation that has pertained for at least a generation and a half isn't.

[666maslo666]

Hungary deserves some of the blame for that: It recieves tons of funding from the EU yet refuses to offer even a token support (I mean, it's quota was...  1,294). It's a clear cut case of an entity wanting to recieve the benefits of an institution without wanting to do any of the work.

Hungary with their fence has done more to support the European Project through these hard times that the rest of the EU combined. As they were obligated to under Schengen treaty. On the other hand, rejecting migrant quotas is a bit like refusing to provide heroin for a junkie. He may hate you for it, but ultimately its for his own good.

Really, the only thing Hungary deserves a blame for is for not acting quickly enough and dumping some migrants on Austria. But in the land of the blind, even a one eyed man is the king..

[Col.Hornet]

To bring it back to this because I brought it on a tangent (oops). But a lot of the leave campaign focused on things like this. UKIP blames the EU for immigrants outside of the EU entering the UK, despite Britain having full control over non-EU citizens entering the UK. It's defenitely praying upon racist fears.

It is true that Brexit wont help with non-EU immigration.

But the EU had an opportunity here to prove euroskeptics wrong by trying to really secure its outside borders, because such supranational issues as immigration crisis is exactly why we have the union. Instead EU elites pushed for quotas, fines for rejecting migrants and criticised Hungary for its fence. So it is only natural that UK citizens who are undecided and see such shameful displays like Calais coming from the EU will then gravitate towards voting "Leave". If not for the botched migration crisis, we may very well be celebrating a victory of the "Remain" option right now. And thats one thing that needs to be reformed to ensure that future copycat referendums fail.

Hungary deserves some of the blame for that: It recieves tons of funding from the EU yet refuses to offer even a token support (I mean, it's quota was...  1,294). It's a clear cut case of an entity wanting to recieve the benefits of an institution without wanting to do any of the work.

As I remember Hungarians put quite a big effort to their border security so I see no reason to say "they did not do any work". They did no do what the EU wanted. Which was taking people into the country against host's will. In fact, the harder all the Junckers, Tusks, Schultzes and other "kings of Europe" will try to force this on our countries, the bigger aversion towards EU's policies they will achieve. This applies to any other aspect of Union's activities which gambles with member state's sovereignty, not only the migrant crisis.

Entire Brexit thing should be one big "ALERT" sign for the guys I mentioned above. And I'm very curious if they learn anything from that.

[Grizzly]

To bring it back to this because I brought it on a tangent (oops). But a lot of the leave campaign focused on things like this. UKIP blames the EU for immigrants outside of the EU entering the UK, despite Britain having full control over non-EU citizens entering the UK. It's defenitely praying upon racist fears.

It is true that Brexit wont help with non-EU immigration.

But the EU had an opportunity here to prove euroskeptics wrong by trying to really secure its outside borders, because such supranational issues as immigration crisis is exactly why we have the union. Instead EU elites pushed for quotas, fines for rejecting migrants and criticised Hungary for its fence. So it is only natural that UK citizens who are undecided and see such shameful displays like Calais coming from the EU will then gravitate towards voting "Leave". If not for the botched migration crisis, we may very well be celebrating a victory of the "Remain" option right now. And thats one thing that needs to be reformed to ensure that future copycat referendums fail.

Hungary deserves some of the blame for that: It recieves tons of funding from the EU yet refuses to offer even a token support (I mean, it's quota was...  1,294). It's a clear cut case of an entity wanting to recieve the benefits of an institution without wanting to do any of the work.

As I remember Hungarians put quite a big effort to their border security so I see no reason to say "they did not do any work". They did no do what the EU wanted. Which was taking people into the country against host's will. In fact, the harder all the Junckers, Tusks, Schultzes and other "kings of Europe" will try to force this on our countries, the bigger aversion towards EU's policies they will achieve. This applies to any other aspect of Union's activities which gambles with member state's sovereignty, not only the migrant crisis.

Entire Brexit thing should be one big "ALERT" sign for the guys I mentioned above. And I'm very curious if they learn anything from that.

Thing is, if Hungary had accepted the agreement they would have ended up with less refugees then they have now.

I mean, it's fine if you don't want *any* refugees in your country, even though it's a rather unrealistic proposition, but don't come crying about the "Kings of Europe" wanting their money back when you fail to cough up your end of the bargain. It's not like Hungary was coerced into the EU., and it's not like they haven't benefitted from it. That 350 million euro fine is nothing compared to the money they have recieved thus far.

[StarSlayer]

So in the wake of this Brexit snafu if Scotland decides to vote on secession again and is successful does the Union Jack need to lose the St Andrew's Cross?

[karajorma]

I'm drinking with a Welsh guy and he's already pissed off enough that he can't blame the English before we bring up the fact the Union flag doesn't have a dragon, so let's not go there.

[Col.Hornet]

Internet users have no mercy. As usual xD

[Grizzly]

[666maslo666]

https://i.sli.mg/aKio6K.jpg

https://twitter.com/xMattyG/status/746156768313614340

[Luis Dias]

It's so ironic and sad to see the left going all ageist and disgusted by the poor after so many decades trying to be the banner of these people.

You sound surprised to realize what Trump and "the Left" have known all along; that old working-class white people consistently vote against their own interests.

Where have you been the last decade? Where were you when Bernie was trying to turn out the college kids? Where were you when Obama did turn out the college kids eight years ago? How about the last Bush midterms? The articles that were discussing the fact the poorest states in the Union were the ones most likely to vote for people who cut their social safety nets I remember from about the first time I started reading the newspaper, in Northern Virginia, a couple of decades ago now?

This is admittedly a new and interesting way for a nation to suffer for its demographics, but it is in no way surprising, and your prescription for the future in no way rational, much as your failure to understand a situation that has pertained for at least a generation and a half isn't.

none of these criticisms hold water to what I actually said if you pay attention to my words. I completely understand why certain demographics appear to vote "against their own interests" - which apparently is only a crime when done against the left: if a "privileged" person votes for the left then said person is not irrational or stupid anymore, they are instead "idealists", really good moral people. Apparently if you're poor, you're also not allowed to be just that: an idealist. You are also stupid, not selfish enough, and most probably, a bigot.

And what I actually said was: stop doing this. Stop patronising these people. start to respect them. treat them as adults and as compatriots. Stop insulting them as bigots or racists or sexists just because they voted for something you don't agree with. You don't know these people, you have no right to call them this. Also, it fails absolutely in the persuasion level. You're merely behaving obnoxiously, arrogantly and pushing them towards anyone else.

Yes, even to somebody like Boris or Trump. These crooks have learned long ago The simplest of truths: you'll never convince anyone if you keep being nasty and ****ty to them.

[Det. Bullock]

A nation committing suicide, I don't know if I should be sad or start eating pop corn.

It's so ironic and sad to see the left going all ageist and disgusted by the poor after so many decades trying to be the banner of these people.

You sound surprised to realize what Trump and "the Left" have known all along; that old working-class white people consistently vote against their own interests.

Where have you been the last decade? Where were you when Bernie was trying to turn out the college kids? Where were you when Obama did turn out the college kids eight years ago? How about the last Bush midterms? The articles that were discussing the fact the poorest states in the Union were the ones most likely to vote for people who cut their social safety nets I remember from about the first time I started reading the newspaper, in Northern Virginia, a couple of decades ago now?

This is admittedly a new and interesting way for a nation to suffer for its demographics, but it is in no way surprising, and your prescription for the future in no way rational, much as your failure to understand a situation that has pertained for at least a generation and a half isn't.

none of these criticisms hold water to what I actually said if you pay attention to my words. I completely understand why certain demographics appear to vote "against their own interests" - which apparently is only a crime when done against the left: if a "privileged" person votes for the left then said person is not irrational or stupid anymore, they are instead "idealists", really good moral people. Apparently if you're poor, you're also not allowed to be just that: an idealist. You are also stupid, not selfish enough, and most probably, a bigot.

And what I actually said was: stop doing this. Stop patronising these people. start to respect them. treat them as adults and as compatriots. Stop insulting them as bigots or racists or sexists just because they voted for something you don't agree with. You don't know these people, you have no right to call them this. Also, it fails absolutely in the persuasion level. You're merely behaving obnoxiously, arrogantly and pushing them towards anyone else.

Yes, even to somebody like Boris or Trump. These crooks have learned long ago The simplest of truths: you'll never convince anyone if you keep being nasty and ****ty to them.

As someone who owns a small hotel I can say that a privileged person who votes for the left does it in good conscience because he knows he can afford it (yes, he knows that if he votes left he migh pay more taxes but seeing less disenfranchised people in the street is indirectly good for business, or, in my case, because he knows that state ferry services on which his business depends on won't have stupid budget cuts), a poor person that votes for any force that goes against its interest does that because he couldn't get informed on the candidates they're voting really want to do other than bash "those damn commies/migrants/whatever that will take the people's money" or because they don't want to learn and prefer to take everything at face value, which often does indeed translate in stupidity which then takes a turn into bigotry of all kind, from racism or xenofobia to sexism and anti-intellectualism.