Author Topic: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds  (Read 12503 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shivan Hunter

  • 210
  • FRED needs lambdas!
[RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I made reflectivity maps for most ships (everything that appears in the f3 viewer) for the new PBR builds. These are mostly cobbled together from the existing diffuse and shine maps, with some actual texture painting in cases where it was both somewhat easy and made a big difference. I maaaay have gone a bit overboard with the Shivans' gloss maps. :P

I also fiddled with a few normal maps, either adding detail or reducing noise if the map really needed it. Normal maps are extremely important with a shiny ship in a PBR renderer, and a flat one or an especially noisy one looks much more terrible than it did pre-PBR.

I also replaced the asteroid texture for the Boadicea with a rock texture scrounged from google, since the existing one was atrocious.

Known issues (mostly issues with the current PBR workflow): Several places in FS (briefing popups, loadout icons, target box) render models as pure blackness if they have a pure black diffuse map. Also, ingame, the bloom from damage trails overpowers the rest of the ship, especially on fighters, to the point where the ship can barely be seen in all the glare.

Also, I was going down the list of ships in the f3 viewer, making reflectivity maps from the ship maps found in mv_assets, until I remembered that some textures have hi-res versions in mv_advanced. Specifically, the maps for all Terran ships and Vasudan ships up until the Nephthys are based on the (possibly low-res) maps in mv_assets.

Download

(REQUIRES a RECENT NIGHTLY BUILD!)





fs1 > fs2
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 11:23:52 am by The E »

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Regarding the shivans......

[attachment deleted by nobody]

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
"a bit"


e: it's so douchebaggery for me to just say just that. All of this is awesome! :yes: Even the shivan eye bleeding stuff :D

Needs more testing and testing so it can be eventually brought to mediavps!

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

  • 210
  • FRED needs lambdas!
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Thanks guys! And yeah, this is certainly a first pass, I don't like how some of the ships turned out, and of course from what I've heard we aren't even sure this is the PBR workflow's final form. I'm going to play through FS2 with these (damn, I haven't actually played the main campaign in several years) and see if I spot any issues, then I might make some tweaks and probably recreate the Terran/some of the Zod ones using mv_advanced maps.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Yeah, this is definitely something that will need some iteration. But very good job indeed for this, it's definitely a solid base for everyone to do some experimenting with.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline Cyborg17

  • 29
  • A-1 Supar
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Love the job you did on the Colossus.  I feel like it actually makes it look really impressive.

Off-Topic, I didn't notice until all these ships were alongside each other that the Vasudans have a lot of color variety for their glows.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Several places in FS (briefing popups, loadout icons, target box) render models as pure blackness if they have a pure black diffuse map.
In the case of the briefing popups, is that even with -brief_lighting?

* AdmiralRalwood supposes he could just test it himself...

EDIT: So, they seem plenty visible with -brief_lighting. Should be a (relatively) simple matter to make some kind of lighting apply to the other situations as well.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 10:33:11 am by AdmiralRalwood »
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Swifty

  • 210
  • I reject your fantasy & substitute my own
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Thank you so much for contributing this and giving the builds a whirl. This is a great first pass!

 

Offline Jackho

  • 25
  • Gnoti seauton ...
    • Downloads an al
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Hello,
I'm trying these new assets and honestly it feels awesome, really, you made a great job.  :yes:  :nod:
However, I noticed that ships in the targeting control part of the HUD seem not to appear as they should, so I want to submit some screenshots which explain better than I'd do what happens. Just have a look at bottom left corner:
- PBR build and mvps




- 3.7.2 final and MediaVPs_2014




I removed any extra parameters I used to add, just to be sure. Although station is ok, this doesn't look like a desired rendering, does it?
A+
Jack H. : "Well... There's much more to check than six..."

 

Offline Swifty

  • 210
  • I reject your fantasy & substitute my own
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
That's expected behavior since the target box renders the model with no lighting. The diffuse maps are black in a physically-based renderer when expressing a metallic material since metals don't have much of a diffuse response IRL. This is expected behavior but something that will have to be fixed later down the line.

 

Offline Jackho

  • 25
  • Gnoti seauton ...
    • Downloads an al
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I see,

So, for the time being, what lighting parameters would you advise to use with pbr build? What are yours?
Right now I'm using none because it gets really dark otherwise.

 :v-old: A+
Jack H.
A+
Jack H. : "Well... There's much more to check than six..."

 

Offline Swifty

  • 210
  • I reject your fantasy & substitute my own
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
That's a good question. One that I can't answer quite yet as this is stuff is still experimental. :P

The problem with having physically-based rendering with a lot of ships made of metallic materials is that there's no diffuse response for those materials meaning the effects of ambient and diffuse light are negated. And this being space, there's not much contribution of light from environment backgrounds.

As a result, I don't think there's a command line solution for this but someone can correct me if I'm wrong. And I don't know if there's a programmatic solution on my end beyond increasing the intensity of directional lights and increasing the intensity of environment maps (until I introduce some sort of support for HDR cubemaps). This may be something the artists will have to solve, namely, being less liberal with metallics and keeping the gloss not so high so specular highlights are wider so we can keep less of the ship darkened.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Anims: 418, Cutscenes: 8, Mainhalls: 7, Logos: 52
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Mix-Hai Productions
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Well, an additional problem is that newer textures won't work well with older builds. And since the PBR stuff is still in development, the way you make textures may change a bit by the time it's in a final release. So if you are currently texturing a model and want people to use it right away in mods, then you'll likely need to texture it the way we have been and then update it later when PBR is finalized in the release branch of SCP.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - MixaelANITools - Between the Ashes - MjnMixael's Render Boutique - Mix-Hai Productions
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box - Photobucket Albums - Model Releases - Downloads
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!

 

Offline Jackho

  • 25
  • Gnoti seauton ...
    • Downloads an al
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
So,

From what I understand this means every single mod would have to update their mvps so that they could use PBR code unless they use MediaVPs_2014 assets?
I guess it's hardly going to happen as there are a lot of them out there.
Oh my god if true then I just want to die!  I just spent the night playing with the all new nightly build with hdr code included. For the first time I saw my fighter's shadow on a ship. I didn't even have a clue that would make a so enjoyable atmosphere until now!
Moreover I can't make up my mind anymore: will I play build from master with everything lighting and shadows or this PBR build with all these gorgeous metallic and glowing effects?
Now novice question : Would there be so much work to base your code off of the latest builds so that everybody gets best of both world?
Your work makes me wonder why I didn't choose coding as a career. I tried to dig in fred and some files, this all looks like chinese to me!
I know you have a life outside freespace world (we all have) but please, please do not let you ever think what you're doing is not worth the time you spend doing it. Please! Ever!
A+
Jack H. : "Well... There's much more to check than six..."

 

Offline The Dagger

  • 29
  • I like zod ships
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Sorry, but you are mixing things up.
The SCP provides the engine (the code, i.e. the .exe file) while FSU improves the retail assets (models, textures, etc..., i.e. the .vp files). These are totally different skillsets.
PBR builds are engine improvements. To work properly, they require new assets (to have a phisically based rendering you'll need reflectance maps). They can also still use the old shinemaps but the result is a less impressive, though still good looking. Finally, glows and shadows are up to the engine and independent on the mediavps. You can use any mediavps version with the latest nightly, but only the latest will take advantage of the new features.
Once PBR is final (which it isn't for now), FSU will upgrade the maps to take advantage of it (though it'll take time, there's lots of maps...). Once that work is completed, all you'll have to do as a user for other mods relying on the mediavpss to take advantage of the improved assets is to point their mod.ini to the new mediavps version, though that will be at your own risk (as has always been).

 

Offline BirdofPrey

  • 28
  • Help! I see GIMP in my sleep
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
glows and shadows are up to the engine and independent on the mediavps.
Glow maps, glow points or both?

Anyways, is there anything someone wanting to learn how to texture can help, or would my noob fingers just screw the conversion up and not learn a thing about how texture maps work/interact?  (anticipating negative response, but hope to be surprised)
The Great War ended 30 years ago.
Our elders tell stories of a glorious civilization; of people with myths of humanity everlasting, who hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear.

In testing: Radar Icons

 

Offline mjn.mixael

  • Cutscene Master
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Anims: 418, Cutscenes: 8, Mainhalls: 7, Logos: 52
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Mix-Hai Productions
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I think it's a little early to start a true effort to convert our maps for PBR builds. The builds aren't even final yet.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. If someone wants to start messing around to see what it can do, then go for it. I think it's just a little too early still to start a specific effort to try and create a set of finalized maps for an incomplete feature set.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - MixaelANITools - Between the Ashes - MjnMixael's Render Boutique - Mix-Hai Productions
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box - Photobucket Albums - Model Releases - Downloads
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!

 

Offline BirdofPrey

  • 28
  • Help! I see GIMP in my sleep
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Didn't say I wanted to start now.  I know very well things might change between now and release, and besides that, if it were something I were to be competent enough to work on, I'd probably wait for a decent materials database to be built up (which means someone else would have to redo a few ships of each race first).

I was just wondering if it's something I could even be useful doing.
The Great War ended 30 years ago.
Our elders tell stories of a glorious civilization; of people with myths of humanity everlasting, who hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear.

In testing: Radar Icons

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Two points of potential confusion I'd like to clear up:
I just spent the night playing with the all new nightly build with hdr code included.
The new Nightly builds do not have HDR (or PBR) capabilities. What they have is deferred lighting and soft shadows.

Moreover I can't make up my mind anymore: will I play build from master with everything lighting and shadows or this PBR build with all these gorgeous metallic and glowing effects?
Now novice question : Would there be so much work to base your code off of the latest builds so that everybody gets best of both world?
Additionally, the PBR renderer is based off of the deferred lighting and soft shadows renderer, so it already has "the best of both worlds".

Now, existing PBR builds are a bit outdated, because they're based on 3.7.1. However, Swifty has a new repository that's forked from the official SCP repo; its pabst_bleu_ribbon branch is based on master (3.7.3) instead of 3.7.1. Now, at the moment, it's a few commits behind (the three most recent pull requests haven't been merged yet), but it's still much more up-to-date than the old PBR builds.

For those of you who can't (or don't want to) compile your own builds, I've just rebuilt mine: SSE2 and AVX
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Jackho

  • 25
  • Gnoti seauton ...
    • Downloads an al
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Hmm,
Thank you both for your clarifications. Unfortunately I might not totally get the picture yet. Like I said it's all chinese to me  :drevil:
If I'm correct:
- PBR build is an improvement from the SCP build (ie the nightly ones) so everything SCP engine can do, PBR engine can do it too
- this improvement allows use of reflectance maps which are not originally in the assets (mvps) so one has to add them like Shivan Hunter's one
- any mod which make use of such modified asset can take advantage of the PBR improvements

Right?

So why can't I see shadows like in the latest nightly when I run the PBR build (or it's me maybe? Nah I'd have noticed them) ?
What are the differences between HDR and PBR (acronyms kill me) if they are at all comparable?

For those of you who can't (or don't want to) compile your own builds, I've just rebuilt mine:...
Nice! I was waiting for this one
EDIT : it has all of it! you are the man!  :yes:  Ok now I get it, I just needed a more recent build
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 02:10:13 am by Jackho »
A+
Jack H. : "Well... There's much more to check than six..."