Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: DaBrain on December 31, 2007, 02:35:03 pm

Title: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on December 31, 2007, 02:35:03 pm
!!!Out of date!!!
The newly released 3.6.10 can be found here! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,58230.0.html)





Requires a recent build (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/board,97.0.html) of FS2_Open

Updated links! (Direct downloads via Warpcore)

----------

Readme (http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/readme.txt)
Note: Includes installation info.

(MV_Core) (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/mvp3610beta/MV_3_6_10_Core.rar)

(MV_Music) (http://cp.nukelol.com/mv_music.zip)

(MV_Assets) (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/mvp3610beta/MV_3_6_10_Assets.rar)
Note: This VP replaces the the mv_models and mv_textures vps.

(MV_Effects) (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/mvp3610beta/MV_3_6_10_Effects.rar)

(MV_AdvancedEffects) (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/mvp3610beta/MV_3_6_10_AdvancedEffects.rar)
Note: Requires the MV_Effects to work properly.


Mirror 1 (http://www.exp.de/filebrowser.php?go=/Games/freespace2/scp/mediavps) for all MediaVPs.

----------

Features:
-New htl models
-New high-res textures and shine maps
-Normal maps
-Lens flares
-Muzzleflashes
-Race specific shield effects
-New beam effects

----------

Fixes:


Hotfix for the german version of Freespace 2 (http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/MV_3610_german_hotfix.rar)
Hotfix for the SD Ravana's ship and weapon collision detection errors. (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/joey.wong/capital2s-01.pof.zip) Place the 'capital2s-01.pof' file from this zip into Freespace2\mediavps\data\models. (Create this directory if it does not exist.)

----------

Thanks to my pals at Extreme-Players for hosting the files.

I hope Warpcore/indiegames download links will follow soon.

----------

This isn't the final version, but a BETA version of it. Please report problems in Mantis. I'll try to fix bigger problems like crashes a soon as possible.

For full quality you will have to use taylor's most recent XT builds.
Normal mapping will work only with those builds at the moment. A fully Shader Model 3.0 compatible graphics card with a OpenGL 2.0 compatible driver is required(!)

If your work is included in the MediaVP, but you name isn't noted in the readme, please PM me.

Happy new year to all of you!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: G0atmaster on December 31, 2007, 03:09:00 pm
What's a recent build mean?  Like, what I downloaded with Turey's installer?  or one of those CV builds I've heard about?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: CP5670 on December 31, 2007, 03:22:48 pm
Very nice, I've been waiting for this for months. Does this include all the normal maps?

By the way, replace the music VP in your post with this one (http://cp.nukelol.com/mv_music.zip) I put together from the stuff we got from Dan Wentz. It's still incomplete but it has a lot more pieces than the old one.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on December 31, 2007, 03:41:19 pm
Now this reminds me.. Wasn't there new option for rendering particles?

Namely that '0-time' particles would get rendered once per frame or something. If so then the flak effect i made really ought to be changed into using this method as the current one may - depending on fps and other issues - render from zero to three particles per shot per frame.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on December 31, 2007, 05:31:51 pm
I can't remember which build was the first to get that particle change, but I think that it hasn't been in a regular release yet.  I think that it's only been in the willrobinson builds so far, but those really aren't for general usage unless you are a mod maker or build tester, so not many people use them.

I'll put out a new regular build at the end of January, since I'm on a short rest break at the moment and not really working on FSO coding right now.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on December 31, 2007, 07:55:20 pm
What's a recent build mean?  Like, what I downloaded with Turey's installer?  or one of those CV builds I've heard about?

"Recent" means in this case taylor's most recent build, which is (atm) here:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50258.0.html

Other recent builds will work too, but do not feature shader support at this moment.


Very nice, I've been waiting for this for months. Does this include all the normal maps?

By the way, replace the music VP in your post with this one (http://cp.nukelol.com/mv_music.zip) I put together from the stuff we got from Dan Wentz. It's still incomplete but it has a lot more pieces than the old one.

Thx added. ;)

Yes, all normal maps I got from other members (namely Vasudan Admiral) and my own big normal map pack are included.

@Wanderer
Ah good idea! I'll implement this for the final version. (So when the official 3.6.10 builds are ready.)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 01, 2008, 12:49:51 am
I like mv_models and mv_textures being one.

Given the sizes, do you think you could post the md5's of these files? (HashTab is a good win proggy shell-addon that adds it to your right-click Properties selection)

Just as an idea, since mv_music contains (I'm guessing) more than just music, why not call it mv_audio?

(In process of downloading now....w00t!)

I've got the turey included 3.6.10 and all the robinson builds (I like 1207 personally.)

I'm loving New Years with you guys. Last year was 3.6.9 exe, this year is kick arse mediavp's. It's like having a second christmas. :-)

Sorry for the multiple edits, but is there some reason MV_Core only has the co-op missions? What about the FS2 Lightspeed missions?

N/M, they are apparently in MV_Effects. ???? Confused now....

Also, the readme states "The only VP that can be left in your Freespace 2 directory is the FS2cutscenepack.vp." What about multi-mission-pack and multi-voice-pack? _I_ know there is little to no conflict with those, but it may confuse others.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 01, 2008, 02:50:41 am
 :yes: :yes: :yes:

Downloading now.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 01, 2008, 02:59:45 am
Holy carbuncle, do my eye's deceive me or does "Show Insignia" now work??? Sweet!

Error: Ravana Thruster Glows are offset from the rear of the vessel. Might want to fix that.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 01, 2008, 03:26:21 am
Error: Ravana Thruster Glows are offset from the rear of the vessel. Might want to fix that.

DaBrain, I haven't tested yet but this could mean you are using a totally BAD HTL Ravana. This Ravana (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45122.0.html) is not worthy at all.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: darkship on January 01, 2008, 03:45:11 am
i got a problem but i dont know if it can be considered a bug or not or if this is just some random problem with my computer. Some beams like the shivan and AAA beams do not have the charge up effect or the "energy ball", for lack of a better term, during the actual firing phase. I think they are related to the MV_advancedeffect file, but having no modding experience whatsoever i cannot say for sure. a picture just to show what i mean.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/Plasmacabbage/untitled.jpg)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 01, 2008, 03:53:12 am
I can't remember which build was the first to get that particle change, but I think that it hasn't been in a regular release yet.  I think that it's only been in the willrobinson builds so far, but those really aren't for general usage unless you are a mod maker or build tester, so not many people use them.

I'll put out a new regular build at the end of January, since I'm on a short rest break at the moment and not really working on FSO coding right now.

A very selfish post ....  :p

PLEASE RETURN ASAP. We do need a debug build which returns warnings for missing stuff...



Now seriously, enjoy your break  :cool:

----------------------------------------------------------


DaBrain, I'm unpacking all vps. While doing it with WCM's Maja, mv_music has given me the next warning/error:
Code: [Select]
Note: Imported VP lacked ending backdirs. This does not affect importing in any way.I don't know if it can cause any ingame trouble at all (I just don't understand what the hell Maja is complaining about).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 01, 2008, 04:24:17 am
While doing it with WCM's Maja, mv_music has given me the next warning/error:
Code: [Select]
Note: Imported VP lacked ending backdirs. This does not affect importing in any way.I don't know if it can cause any ingame trouble at all (I just don't understand what the hell Maja is complaining about).
I've had that a couple of times. Doesn't seem to be anything important.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 05:11:13 am
DaBrain, I haven't tested yet but this could mean you are using a totally BAD HTL Ravana. This Ravana (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45122.0.html) is not worthy at all.

Dammit... It wasn't supposed to be in there. Must have happened during the back and forth between the files.


N/M, they are apparently in MV_Effects. ???? Confused now....

It makes sense imho. The updated nebulas are in the Effects VP, so the missions should be in there too.


@darkship Thanks, that will be hotfixed. I'll just wait a bit for more bugs to be found.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 01, 2008, 06:06:56 am
i got a problem but i dont know if it can be considered a bug or not or if this is just some random problem with my computer. Some beams like the shivan and AAA beams do not have the charge up effect or the "energy ball", for lack of a better term, during the actual firing phase. I think they are related to the MV_advancedeffect file, but having no modding experience whatsoever i cannot say for sure. a picture just to show what i mean.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/Plasmacabbage/untitled.jpg)

DaBrain as you asked I was going to mantis it but this seems this very same issue, so I post it here although I suppose you've already found the reason.

On game startup with 3.6.9. debug I get the following errors:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 06:19:11 am
Looks like I've broken the beam in the last minute.

I think the beam sections will work fine with the final 3.6.10 build. I remember talkting about that issue with Bobboau. Just can't find it anymore atm.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Shade on January 01, 2008, 06:35:52 am
I am officially in awe. The only major problem is that when going from a normal mapped ship to one without them, the drop in quality almost hurts my eyes :p But that's really just a testament to how good a job you've done on the ones that are finished.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 01, 2008, 06:37:10 am
hi,
sweet!

so download it, and get a little bit in trouble, but i solve it.

my luncher had said that mv_strings-lcl.tbm are corrupt.
so i open the file and took a look in the file.
in the first line are writing:  #English.
so i think a bit and because i have the orginal german version i replace the English with German and work for me.

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on January 01, 2008, 06:40:06 am
Fantastic, downloading now!!! :D
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Hades on January 01, 2008, 06:44:56 am
I would download it, but the files are to hefty for my computer right now.
I will download them once I get sick of EAW:FOC. :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 07:19:58 am
hi,
sweet!

so download it, and get a little bit in trouble, but i solve it.

my luncher had said that mv_strings-lcl.tbm are corrupt.
so i open the file and took a look in the file.
in the first line are writing:  #English.
so i think a bit and because i have the orginal german version i replace the English with German and work for me.

Mehrpack

Thanks for that note. I didn't test it with anything else than the english version.

Hmmm... now I have a problem. How can I fix that. I can only remove that tbl again.

A string "bug" isn't half as bad as incompability with non-english versions.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 01, 2008, 07:57:35 am
hi,
mhh do you have a way to ask the game which language its use?
that you let ask in the tbm first which language the game has and then replace.

the other way is maybe if the medias get a installer, so that a script in the installer generate the file with the correct target for the language.

i hope this ideas maybe help you a little bit :D.

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 08:16:23 am
Ok Fix added to the posting.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 01, 2008, 08:34:48 am
hi,
the tbm in the fix is empty, is this correct?

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 08:51:35 am
Oh... uhm... no...  :nervous:

I guess I didn't hit ctrl+s but something else when I editet it. Anyway it's finally a real fix now. ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on January 01, 2008, 09:02:01 am
Uhm, that site is making the DL a bit problematic...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 01, 2008, 09:32:46 am

These maps really do bring out a lot of detail I never even noticed in many ships.  I am very much impressed.  Thank you for all the work that must have gone into compiling these files.

A few notes:

1) Do you have Stratcomm's fixed Ravana?  That model seems to work without issue for me.
2) I seem to be able to see through the ventral cylinder things on the Typhon -- the front of these is transparent.  The ships thrusters are visible when viewing the ship from the bow.
3) The sides of the engines on the Medusa seem too mirror like.
4) I am glad to see the Hippocrates LOD fix in there.  A couple of others that might be appropriate:
The retail Nephilim LOD values seem to have a typo, being (0, 30, 500, 1200) when other bombers are (0, 300, 500, 1500)
The Ravana's LOD values are rather low, being (0, 1200, 12000, 22000) when other destroyers use LOD 0 out to ~3000 or more.


These maps do point out just how awful a few of the original V models are -- Boadicea, Mephisto, Astaroth UGHH!! :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: shiv on January 01, 2008, 09:45:06 am
Missions in asteroid belts are killing my FPS :mad2: :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 10:44:22 am
@Admiral Nelson  Thx. Good input.


@Shiv Well, the asteroids ended up to be quite gpu power consuming...
What are you're system specs?

Maybe I can tweak them a bit.
I get 120 fps in asteroid fields... so I thought I fixed the problem.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on January 01, 2008, 11:01:43 am
Uhm...am I the only one experiencing problems with that site?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on January 01, 2008, 11:12:16 am
This music vp means trouble, namely that all campaigns with custom music won't be able to use it together with the vp via a mod.ini, unless I'm doing something wrong of course.
Oh and by the way: This downloading site is teh ****.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 01, 2008, 11:37:46 am
Uhm...am I the only one experiencing problems with that site?

Nope, that sites blows hardcore.  Crashed my firefox on the first load because the damn popup ad decided to spawn like 30 windows.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on January 01, 2008, 11:38:52 am
And I can only download at a speed of 30 kbyte per second.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 01, 2008, 11:39:41 am
15 here, but that doesn't bother me so much since it has 3 or so unique mirrors you can use I think.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on January 01, 2008, 12:32:25 pm
About 2-5 kbs per second here...

The Advanced Effects are impossible to download...I'm stuck on 1,8 mbs and get problems like "forbidden"(I use Star Downloader).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Polpolion on January 01, 2008, 12:50:35 pm
Solution: Don't use Star Downloader

It'll still be slow, but I'm almost positive it'll let you download then.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: shiv on January 01, 2008, 01:05:04 pm
@Shiv Well, the asteroids ended up to be quite gpu power consuming...
What are you're system specs?

Intel Celeron M 1,73 GhZ
2 GB RAM
Intel X3100 358 MB RAM
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 01, 2008, 01:57:46 pm
I hope Inquisitor will host the files. But if you got too much webspace and want to host them till then, just contact me.


Intel Celeron M 1,73 GhZ
2 GB RAM
Intel X3100 358 MB RAM

I guess you're not using glsl, or does the card support OpenGL 2.0 now?

Anyway, the X3100 is really slow. I guess the polygon count kills the GPU. Try reducing the model details for now.
Or try removing the advanced effects VP if you are using it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 01, 2008, 02:48:49 pm
Ok, the first Exp server gave me like, 10-20k, the other two both go 100+ for me.  So apparently just don't use the one everyone else uses.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 01, 2008, 02:50:55 pm
It's x1300, not 3100. :P

Also, it's about time you posted these! Though I'm still downloading the assets. :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 01, 2008, 03:22:05 pm
It's x1300, not 3100. :P

Also, it's about time you posted these! Though I'm still downloading the assets. :(
Nope, it can both:

ATI X1300

OR

As already said, Intel x3100
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 01, 2008, 04:14:05 pm
Oh right. :nervous:

Anyways, everything looks great except for a few nitpicks.

As stated before, some beams (like the Shivan beams, and what I've just noticed, Terran and Vasudan AAA beams) don't have the orbs at the source, and they seem to just cut off abruptly at the end. Though now, for the life of me I can't remember if they did or not before.

And there's this little number, but I don't know if it's SCP or the mediavps.

(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6889/screen0519mf2.png)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MetalDestroyer on January 01, 2008, 04:56:09 pm
DaBrain, you should use the explosion from BtRL. And is it normal to see that all ships doesn't have normal map ?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on January 01, 2008, 05:01:37 pm
That wouldn't be an "improved" explosion effect but a completely new one...I don't think it's Media VPs worth...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 01, 2008, 05:17:02 pm
The Orion nameplates are not appearing in mission it seems -- I checked with both the Uhuru and Repulse.  Cruiser / Corvette nameplates seem ok.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vengence on January 01, 2008, 06:09:45 pm
This is oddly strange... I followed the directions but when I view the models in the F3 menu, I see no normal maps and all. I am using the latest build too so something must be causing this.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Retsof on January 01, 2008, 07:46:37 pm
I think I will just lurk until official 3.6.10 release comes to Turrey's.  By the way, how long should I have to wait? :D
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 01, 2008, 08:24:28 pm
Vengance: When you are in F3 select Render Options. If there is no checkbox for "No Normal Map" and "No Height Map" then you are using a version of the exe that may or may not have support.

I only have those checkboxes when running the 3.6.10 build included in Turey's installer, it's just not there with _any_ of the robinson builds, so it's hard to tell if it's simply missing in the render options or just not complete in it's presence in the exe. Taylor would have to answer that, methinks, but he is currently busy and it will all probably be a moot point by the time a 3.6.10 exe becomes official anyway.

Ships which SHOULD have a normal map no matter what (and obviously so) are the Uly, Myrmidon and Hatshepsut that I can recall off the top of my head.

Also, the robinson builds don't recognize -alpha_env either. So again, I'd recommend sticking with the Turey Installer inluded 3_6_10_20071007T.exe or the 3_6_10_20071028T.exe.

On a MediaVP related note, the shine maps on the missles seem a touch.....excessive. I'm actually starting to generally dislike the shine maps in general (even though a lot of them have gotten fixed, fo which I'm sure many will thank you for), I've just taken to completely removing them.

**EDIT: Fixed the capital2s-01.pof from these VP's rather than using a previously fixed version.
capital2s-01.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/capital2s-01.7z) **Do a right-click "Save As".
MD5: 826E4824AD1C98B0B2266BE7C5C3886B

Simply unzip into the mediavps data\models\capital2s-01.pof to over-ride.

Don't forget to go into data\cache\ and delete any capital2s-01 files from there before re-launching SCP.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Man-Whore on January 01, 2008, 09:58:37 pm
 :confused:

Why in the hells would you put textures and models into one?! I can run textures, but not models; but I've learned to deal with that over time! Now I'll just have to forsake both. Great.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 01, 2008, 11:54:36 pm
Herc Mk II and Ares: On the top/bottom auxillary engines, the engine glow can be seen "through" the, er, ?shroud? ?housing? for the engine.

Instead of eclipsing the "ball", the ball is visible through it from any perspective.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 02, 2008, 12:14:26 am
:confused:

Why in the hells would you put textures and models into one?! I can run textures, but not models; but I've learned to deal with that over time! Now I'll just have to forsake both. Great.

Get a better processor and/or video card?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 02, 2008, 12:35:01 am
:confused:

Why in the hells would you put textures and models into one?! I can run textures, but not models; but I've learned to deal with that over time! Now I'll just have to forsake both. Great.

?

I'm fairly sure that the textures are only used on those models, and vice versa.  Correct me if I'm wrong though, please.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 02, 2008, 01:38:27 am
Potential issue: cargo03.pof (TAC 1) does some wierd jitter-bug when being shot and then goes in to a total spastic spin just prior to exploding.

Noticed in: Place of Chariots. (Which, btw, shouldn't the hercs in that be lokis to match your wingmate asking you to "prioritize those loki's"?

Exe is 3.6.10 10/28/07.
Code: [Select]
exe_filepath = C:\Games\FreeSpace2\fs2_open_3_6_10.exe;
game_flags = -ambient_factor 75 -no_emissive_light -spec_exp 11 -spec_point 0.6 -spec_static 0.8 -spec_tube 0.4 -spec -glow -env -mipmap -nomotiondebris -missile_lighting -normal -no_vsync -cache_bitmaps -dualscanlines -targetinfo -orbradar -rearm_timer -ship_choice_3d -3dwarp -warp_flash -snd_preload -alpha_env -fps ;
active_mod = mediavps;

1600x1200x32, 4xAA, 4xAF.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mars on January 02, 2008, 04:02:21 am
I leave for 6 months and what do I find when I come back

Good job all you all, I'm reinstalling FS2 for this... and the TVWP demo
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 06:05:07 am
**EDIT: Fixed the capital2s-01.pof from these VP's rather than using a previously fixed version.
capital2s-01.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/capital2s-01.7z) **Do a right-click "Save As".

Thanks, addded to the upcomming patch. :)

Now I have to somehow fix the cargo container...

:confused:

Why in the hells would you put textures and models into one?! I can run textures, but not models; but I've learned to deal with that over time! Now I'll just have to forsake both. Great.

Well, I feared that would happen...
I had to rename all textures and assign all textures new in all pofs. It was part of the lod/texture system overhaul, to reduce CPU usage, GFX memory usage, and the ugly texture shimmering.
The lods do not depend on smaller resized versions of the textures, but the mipmaps of the original texture now. (Like it should be.)

Also some of the HTL model models use unique textures now. The non-htl asteroids look a bit messed up with the high-res maps, and the other way around the htl asteroids look horrible with the low-res maps. You cannot use either of those without the other.

You can only try to use the old mv_textures, but I haven't tested that.

I doubt the mv_assets will be split in two again, ever.


Edit: Btw, Mehrpack has uploaded the VPs on rapidshare. If you have problem with just one VP, this might be a temporary solution:
http://rapidshare.com/files/80550987/MV_Assets.part1.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80555927/MV_Assets.part2.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80558756/MV_Assets.part3.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80558978/MV_3_6_10_Core.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80560057/MV_3_6_10_Effects.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80562864/MV_3_6_10_AdvancedEffects.rar.html

However, the files should be on Warpcore soon.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 02, 2008, 06:40:57 am
hi,
mhh maybe i do found a better fix for the mv_strings-lcl.tbm
i have tried a little bit around with the language entries and have found a way that it work without a error for my version.
the problem is: i have no clue if it so work like it should and if it work with other version too.
so i think: post it :D.

heres the code:

Code: [Select]
#English
#German
#France

;
; The control config action text goes between 507 and 619.
;
517, "Turn Off Targeting Computer"
521, "Turn Off Subsystem/Turret Targeting"

#end

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Knarfe1000 on January 02, 2008, 06:59:03 am
Only with Shader 3 graphic-cards? This is the apocalypse for me at the beginning of the new year (Radeon 850 XT)  :( :( :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Oddgrim on January 02, 2008, 07:07:48 am
downloading now!
I can't wait to test/crash/burn my FSO folder :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 07:17:42 am
@Mehrpack
That really works? Wow, that would of course be the best possible solution.

I need another guinea pig now. Maybe... with a french version this time. ;)
If that works too, it's part of the patch.


Only with Shader 3 graphic-cards? This is the apocalypse for me at the beginning of the new year (Radeon 850 XT)  :( :( :(

Yes, but it is for a reason. Taylor decided to use a more efficient format for the normal maps (50% less memory usage), but wasn't able to find a way to get it to work with SM 2.0 without a big performance drop. I think that wasn't the only problem though, but it was the initial problem.

The fixed-function rendering doesn't look bad, I hope it's not too much of a problem for the SM 2.0 card users.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 02, 2008, 07:42:37 am
@Mehrpack
That really works? Wow, that would of course be the best possible solution.

I need another guinea pig now. Maybe... with a french version this time. ;)
If that works too, it's part of the patch.

hi,
yeah no error on the start.
but like i say dont know if it work like it should be.
want excactly make this tbm and how can i test it ingame?

btw: i how many languange was freespace 2 released?

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vengence on January 02, 2008, 08:12:04 am
Vengance: When you are in F3 select Render Options. If there is no checkbox for "No Normal Map" and "No Height Map" then you are using a version of the exe that may or may not have support.

I only have those checkboxes when running the 3.6.10 build included in Turey's installer, it's just not there with _any_ of the robinson builds, so it's hard to tell if it's simply missing in the render options or just not complete in it's presence in the exe. Taylor would have to answer that, methinks, but he is currently busy and it will all probably be a moot point by the time a 3.6.10 exe becomes official anyway.

Ships which SHOULD have a normal map no matter what (and obviously so) are the Uly, Myrmidon and Hatshepsut that I can recall off the top of my head.

Also, the robinson builds don't recognize -alpha_env either. So again, I'd recommend sticking with the Turey Installer inluded 3_6_10_20071007T.exe or the 3_6_10_20071028T.exe.


I have the latest Taylor XT Build. The checkboxes for the normal and hieght maps ARE there, the model just doesn't have any on it. In fact nothing has normal maps. My card supports all that stuff, Shader 3.0 and everything else. Geforce 8600. The last build of FS2 I used supported normal maps and it actually displayed. Could the problem be the drivers because I recently updated after the last time I played FS2?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Knarfe1000 on January 02, 2008, 08:22:47 am
@Mehrpack
That really works? Wow, that would of course be the best possible solution.

I need another guinea pig now. Maybe... with a french version this time. ;)
If that works too, it's part of the patch.


Only with Shader 3 graphic-cards? This is the apocalypse for me at the beginning of the new year (Radeon 850 XT)  :( :( :(

Yes, but it is for a reason. Taylor decided to use a more efficient format for the normal maps (50% less memory usage), but wasn't able to find a way to get it to work with SM 2.0 without a big performance drop. I think that wasn't the only problem though, but it was the initial problem.

The fixed-function rendering doesn't look bad, I hope it's not too much of a problem for the SM 2.0 card users.
...does that mean that 2.0 Shader-cards can be used with less performance?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 02, 2008, 08:23:50 am
hi,
I have the latest Taylor XT Build. The checkboxes for the normal and hieght maps ARE there, the model just doesn't have any on it. In fact nothing has normal maps. My card supports all that stuff, Shader 3.0 and everything else. Geforce 8600. The last build of FS2 I used supported normal maps and it actually displayed. Could the problem be the drivers because I recently updated after the last time I played FS2?
lastest? you mean fs2_open_3_6_10-Xt_1207?

this build doesnt display normal maps, all builds after the fs2_open_3_6_10-20071028T.exe build doesnt display the normal maps, for me.

as far i have see it, taylor has rebuild this function, i think, and so the builds wasnt able to display it, but maybe im wrong with that.

but the lastest new build with working normal mapping support was the fs2_open_3_6_10-20071028T.exe build.

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: shiv on January 02, 2008, 08:26:57 am
I hope Inquisitor will host the files. But if you got too much webspace and want to host them till then, just contact me.


Intel Celeron M 1,73 GhZ
2 GB RAM
Intel X3100 358 MB RAM

I guess you're not using glsl, or does the card support OpenGL 2.0 now?

Anyway, the X3100 is really slow. I guess the polygon count kills the GPU. Try reducing the model details for now.
Or try removing the advanced effects VP if you are using it.

This card support OpenGL 1.5

3.6.9 vps with asteroids didn't slow my game.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 08:58:52 am
Well, does lowering the model details improve your performance significantly?
If so, it's really the polycount. There might be a solution for that.

If not,  I don't know what the problem is.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 02, 2008, 09:11:02 am
...does that mean that 2.0 Shader-cards can be used with less performance?
Yeah, about 60-70% less performance, in the best case.  In other words, it will easily become unplayable.  The problem is with the lights.  All of our lights are dynamic, and we need at least 8 of them.  In order to support 8 lights though the shaders become too big to work within SM2.0 limits, meaning that it could only support 3 or 4 lights, depending on the exact shader.  That simply isn't enough to work well, since it would be very noticeable in-game.

Typically in a case like this you would just render in multiple passes, using different lights for each pass.  But the way that the engine renders models makes doing this really inefficient.  It's very inefficient with the fixed-render pipeline too, but given the cases in which it happens, it's not that big of a deal all that often.  With shaders though, that specific case is almost always in use, which means that you will get at least a 50-60% performance hit with multipass rendering for lights.  It's simply not worth the effort involved to support something that works that poorly.

lastest? you mean fs2_open_3_6_10-Xt_1207?

this build doesnt display normal maps, all builds after the fs2_open_3_6_10-20071028T.exe build doesnt display the normal maps, for me.
After the 1028 build all of the rendering code, shader code, and shaders themselves, was completely rewritten.  One of the changes as part of that is that the shaders are no longer built-in to the exe, since embedding and further updating 60+ files is a serious pain.  The shader code only works now if you have the extra shader VP to go with it.  The shaders will not be embedded in the exe again, so having the external data is a requirement from now on.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: shiv on January 02, 2008, 09:58:36 am
Well, does lowering the model details improve your performance significantly?
If so, it's really the polycount. There might be a solution for that.

If not,  I don't know what the problem is.

Unbfotuneatelly when I enter options by pressing F2 and when I set detail to only "high" I don't feel any difrrence.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 10:41:44 am
After the 1028 build all of the rendering code, shader code, and shaders themselves, was completely rewritten.  One of the changes as part of that is that the shaders are no longer built-in to the exe, since embedding and further updating 60+ files is a serious pain.  The shader code only works now if you have the extra shader VP to go with it.  The shaders will not be embedded in the exe again, so having the external data is a requirement from now on.

Should I include the new shader set in the patch?
It sees to work with the 1028T build too. Or this build is simply using the implemented shader files anyway.

Unbfotuneatelly when I enter options by pressing F2 and when I set detail to only "high" I don't feel any difrrence.

Please try lowering only the model detail to the lowest value and compare the speed.
Then increase everything back to full and put just the 3d texture detail on the lowest value.

Tell me if one of those makes a real difference and which helped more, so I can figure out where exactly the problem is.


Edit: The Warpcore links should be up in about 2-3 hours!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 02, 2008, 10:53:14 am
Also, the robinson builds don't recognize -alpha_env either. So again, I'd recommend sticking with the Turey Installer inluded 3_6_10_20071007T.exe or the 3_6_10_20071028T.exe.

An offtopic comment. -alpha_env is not recognized because it's always ON (much like -jpgtga). The only side effect is that wrong alpha shinemaps will ALWAYS lead to background "mirror" effects.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on January 02, 2008, 11:57:59 am
After the 1028 build all of the rendering code, shader code, and shaders themselves, was completely rewritten.  One of the changes as part of that is that the shaders are no longer built-in to the exe, since embedding and further updating 60+ files is a serious pain.  The shader code only works now if you have the extra shader VP to go with it.  The shaders will not be embedded in the exe again, so having the external data is a requirement from now on.

hi,
ah was my guess in the half point correct, that you had rewriting this part of the engine.
and yeah its a nice idea, so anybody can modify easy the shader and improvments or experimentals are possible without to build a new build :).

is anywhere a source to download the new shader code to test it, maybe?

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 01:24:33 pm
Updated links! (Direct downloads via Warpcore)
 :nervous:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 02, 2008, 01:49:31 pm
Quote
The fixed-function rendering doesn't look bad, I hope it's not too much of a problem for the SM 2.0 card users.

I thought SM2 support would be added later?

Quote
Typically in a case like this you would just render in multiple passes, using different lights for each pass.  But the way that the engine renders models makes doing this really inefficient.  It's very inefficient with the fixed-render pipeline too, but given the cases in which it happens, it's not that big of a deal all that often.  With shaders though, that specific case is almost always in use, which means that you will get at least a 50-60% performance hit with multipass rendering for lights.  It's simply not worth the effort involved to support something that works that poorly.

Could it be added for sunlights and in the techroom at least?
Software rendering?

Software rendering doesn't seem to display specular anymore with fs2_open_3_6_10-20071028T.

i have a GF5700
fso 3_6_10-20071028T with MVPs 3_6_10Beta crashes.
fso 3_6_9 with MVPs 10b works
fso 3_6_10-20071028T with MVPs 3_6_9 work (or was it 8 zeta?)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 02:04:50 pm
I thought SM2 support would be added later?

That will most likely not happen. It's just not pratical.

Could it be added for sunlights and in the techroom at least?
Software rendering?

You cannot partially use shaders for a model like that.
At the moment only the sun casts a per-pixel light with shaders.
So you can only see the normal mapping in the sunlight, while the ships still appear to have a flat surfaces when they are iluminated by lasers or beams.
I don't know if the sun light is 'per-pixel' with the fixed-function rendering.

If you want to test your normal maps for a ship, there are still some ways to take a look at them outside of FS2.

i have a GF5700
fso 3_6_10-20071028T with MVPs 3_6_10Beta crashes.
fso 3_6_9 with MVPs 10b works
fso 3_6_10-20071028T with MVPs 3_6_9 work (or was it 8 zeta?)

Might be  a shader probem... although the shaders shouldn't be used.
Try to use the 1028T build with the new VPs and disable glsl in the launcher (-no_glsl).

There are several shaders than can be used. Which one is used is decided by the maps it uses. So with the new MediaVP and the included normal maps, it's using different shaders.
Maybe SM 2.0b cards support enough needed extensions to work with just the diffuse,glow,specular,env shader.

Or maybe it's a table problem. (My bad... :( )
Try the no_glsl thing and run a debug build if that doesn't work. I'll try to fix the problem if it's a MediaVP bug.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Man-Whore on January 02, 2008, 02:11:12 pm
**EDIT: Fixed the capital2s-01.pof from these VP's rather than using a previously fixed version.
capital2s-01.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/capital2s-01.7z) **Do a right-click "Save As".

Thanks, addded to the upcomming patch. :)

Now I have to somehow fix the cargo container...

:confused:

Why in the hells would you put textures and models into one?! I can run textures, but not models; but I've learned to deal with that over time! Now I'll just have to forsake both. Great.

Well, I feared that would happen...
I had to rename all textures and assign all textures new in all pofs. It was part of the lod/texture system overhaul, to reduce CPU usage, GFX memory usage, and the ugly texture shimmering.
The lods do not depend on smaller resized versions of the textures, but the mipmaps of the original texture now. (Like it should be.)

Also some of the HTL model models use unique textures now. The non-htl asteroids look a bit messed up with the high-res maps, and the other way around the htl asteroids look horrible with the low-res maps. You cannot use either of those without the other.

You can only try to use the old mv_textures, but I haven't tested that.

I doubt the mv_assets will be split in two again, ever.


Edit: Btw, Mehrpack has uploaded the VPs on rapidshare. If you have problem with just one VP, this might be a temporary solution:
http://rapidshare.com/files/80550987/MV_Assets.part1.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80555927/MV_Assets.part2.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80558756/MV_Assets.part3.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80558978/MV_3_6_10_Core.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80560057/MV_3_6_10_Effects.rar.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/80562864/MV_3_6_10_AdvancedEffects.rar.html

However, the files should be on Warpcore soon.

I see; sorry that I came off so rude. Oh wells. At least the effects look freaking amazing. Nicely done. (Especially with the engine glows!)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 02, 2008, 02:21:29 pm
Should I include the new shader set in the patch?
It just needs to be in a separate VP or something, so that it isn't restricted to the MediaVPs themselves (for other mods to use, etc.).  I had just planned on putting out a standalone shader VP (like you've been testing with) when I put out a new public build, but there isn't any reason that you can't go ahead and do that yourself (or just include them in the patch since I guess that's temporary anyway).

Oh, and I still haven't made any improvements since the last set (1119, the original one, not the sub-versions), so you can just use that.

Quote
It sees to work with the 1028T build too. Or this build is simply using the implemented shader files anyway.
The 1028 build has them embedded, so it doesn't need any external files.  But the filenames changed too, so that build couldn't make use of the new files either way.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 02:25:47 pm
Ok, I'll add them to the patch (MV_Core).



Btw, it has been mentioned that the specular mapping isn't working correctly in he fixed-function mode in your newer builds.
I've just tested and confirmed that.  I'll mantis that one.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 02, 2008, 02:40:25 pm
Quote
Try the no_glsl thing and run a debug build if that doesn't work. I'll try to fix the problem if it's a MediaVP bug.
Code: [Select]
Error: mv_strings-lcl.tbm is corrupt
File: localize.cpp
Line: 611


Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    parse_modular_table()    lcl_xstr_init()    game_init()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()    kernel32.dll 77e614c7()
------------------------------------------------------------------

OK exits.

with the 369 exe it works.

Quote
You cannot partially use shaders for a model like that.
At the moment only the sun casts a per-pixel light with shaders.
So you can only see the normal mapping in the sunlight, while the ships still appear to have a flat surfaces when they are iluminated by lasers or beams.
I don't know if the sun light is 'per-pixel' with the fixed-function rendering.

Are you the guy to confirm this kind of stuff?

That's exactly what I proposed, that only the sun is used that way. As Taylor said the problem is the shader length and i think the shader shouldn't grow that much if only the sun is used? And in the techroom the amount of lights shouldn't be a problem.

By the way is this real phong lighting now?

Quote
If you want to test your normal maps for a ship, there are still some ways to take a look at them outside of FS2.

How? Your strange grayscale normalmaps don't work in Blender. What kind of normal map is that anyway? Which tools do I need?

Will normalmaps work in software mode?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 02, 2008, 02:41:48 pm
Hey I've just noticed this issue with nameplate.dds.

Because of transparency handling, this texture is sometimes slightly visible. As current texture has "GTD Orion" it can be a bit confusing. See Nameplate-Original.jpg.

I upload a fully black (even alpha) and smaller nameplate which looks better. See Nameplate-Proposed.jpg


But then I've thought: "What happens if I delete nameplate?" The answer is that you get the best looking. See Nameplate-Missing.jpg

So unless Nameplate.dds is strictly needed, (I just can think of real nameplate texture switch failing if nameplate.dds is missing), I would delete it and leave it as an intended missing texture. If this is not possible, (coders answer needed), please grab the attached nameplate.dds which leads to a better rendering.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 02, 2008, 02:49:54 pm
Oi! DaBrain! YOu didn't include the Knossos or Ra textures. :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Pnakotus on January 02, 2008, 03:33:48 pm
First, eight million huzzahs for DaB getting this out.  Great work. :)  The muzzle flashes are a bit more subdued these days, and that one texture on the Orion (the the purple crate texture) still gives horrible shimmering, even with 4x AF. :(  Otherwise kickin rad.

However, using the 1028T build, I get occasional very slight pauses.  They're less than a second and appear to be early in missions when things enter for the first time, so I guess my settings are just not pre-loading textures.  I've got an 8800GT so I doubt it's my hardware. :)

EDIT - nah, it's not entries: it seems to be usually when fighters are very close in the viewport.  Doesn't happen with caps, doesn't happen if they're far away.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 02, 2008, 03:41:52 pm
Just a side thought, the fenris normal map seems a bit heavy to me, especially on that rear section in those screenshots.  Still pretty though, I just don't think it's realistic enough.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 02, 2008, 03:54:45 pm
I think the fenris was PERECT as it was in 3_6_9.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 04:00:41 pm
Error: mv_strings-lcl.tbm is corrupt
File: localize.cpp
Line: 611

Ah I see, you need the hotfix for german version:
http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/MV_3610_german_hotfix.rar


with the 369 exe it works.

Ok... that is surprising... It should have the same problem.


Are you the guy to confirm this kind of stuff?

I am not a coder and can not even write a single shader, but I do know a bit about gfx cards and how shaders work. And I am pretty sure that you cannot use a have a model that is light by a sun per shader, while all the other lights on it are rendered in a fixed-function pipeline.


That's exactly what I proposed, that only the sun is used that way.

Well, it already is... but only with shaders. (SM3.0 shaders)


As Taylor said the problem is the shader length and i think the shader shouldn't grow that much if only the sun is used? And in the techroom the amount of lights shouldn't be a problem.

What you are talking about is exactly what is in the shaders. With the SM3.0 shaders there is only one light source used as per-pixel light.
So there is not shorter solution for SM2.0 cards unless you even kill that last per-pixel light, which would essentially also kill normal mapping.

By the way is this real phong lighting now?

I think so. Phong or blinn.


How? Your strange grayscale normalmaps don't work in Blender. What kind of normal map is that anyway? Which tools do I need?

I need "blue" normal maps for Blender I guess. Freespace 2 uses the compressed "grey" normal maps. The format is called DXT5NM.
To create normal maps you  can either use Blender, or use a 2d software in combination with Crazybump.

You can also import models (*.obj) in Crazybump and take a look at them with normal maps (again, the blue ones here). Parallax Mapping however requires a SM 3.0 card. So you can't test your height maps for our models.

Will normalmaps work in software mode?

I don't know if the software mode is even supported anymore. You probably mean the fixed-function pipeline (somewhat the equivalent of D3D7, with T&L rendering).
No normal mapping only works with shaders.

It would require the use of uncompressed maps. High-End cards wouldn't have a problem with that, but they can use the better SM 3.0 rendering anyway.  So only already outdated card would have to use the uncompressed maps, which cannot manage them -> no sense.

@Cobra Ra?... I never made maps for the Ra. The Knossos maps are included.

@ARSPR Thanks again. I guess I'll have to take a look at the nameplats again;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 04:02:24 pm
Just a side thought, the fenris normal map seems a bit heavy to me, especially on that rear section in those screenshots.  Still pretty though, I just don't think it's realistic enough.

Ignore it. It's just an experiment.

You can see I didn't redo the normal maps for it from the scratch. I will do so, later.

However, using the 1028T build, I get occasional very slight pauses.  They're less than a second and appear to be early in missions when things enter for the first time, so I guess my settings are just not pre-loading textures.  I've got an 8800GT so I doubt it's my hardware. :)

I also got a 8800 GT and have the same problem.
But we are not alone:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51223.0.html

Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 02, 2008, 04:35:47 pm
The Knossos maps are included.

I didn't see any of the pretty stuff I saw in the screenshots.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 02, 2008, 04:41:04 pm
Hey I've just noticed this issue with nameplate.dds.

Because of transparency handling, this texture is sometimes slightly visible. As current texture has "GTD Orion" it can be a bit confusing. See Nameplate-Original.jpg.
I never did test it fully, but I think that you can fix it with a simple spec map that doesn't reflect anything.  I only did a quick test with it though, so I can't be sure that it actually fixed it properly.

The difference is just in how it's handled with shaders.  The shader has a couple of tricks in it to blend light and env on transparent textures (for cockpits) but this obviously causes a problem on things like the nameplates.  Besides using a spec map I haven't figured out any way around this so far.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 02, 2008, 04:45:59 pm
Just a side thought, the fenris normal map seems a bit heavy to me, especially on that rear section in those screenshots.  Still pretty though, I just don't think it's realistic enough.

Ignore it. It's just an experiment.

Will do.  Thanks for all the hard work.  This is really the biggest thing motivating me to build a new pc to replace my aging 5 year old beast.  Although I was hoping to get 1 or 2 8800 GTs, so I hope any issues with it can be ironed out, either on nvidia's or our end.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 02, 2008, 04:52:41 pm
I didn't see any of the pretty stuff I saw in the screenshots.

Well... did you follow the installation instuctions? Removed all old VPs?
Do shaders work for you, cause I didn't update the maps, I just added normal maps



@chief1983
You don't relly need a SLI killer machine though. I can max out everything use all image quality imrovement features my card offers, but I still get 60 fps with my 8800 GT.

I won't stop you from buying it though. You might need it in the future. ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 02, 2008, 06:48:34 pm
Quote
The problem is with the lights.  All of our lights are dynamic, and we need at least 8 of them.  In order to support 8 lights though the shaders become too big to work within SM2.0 limits, meaning that it could only support 3 or 4 lights, depending on the exact shader.  That simply isn't enough to work well, since it would be very noticeable in-game.

Sounds like it wouldn't be a problem in the techroom.
Ingame it can't be achieved since you can't use a mix of the old and new versions I believe?

Quote
Ah I see, you need the hotfix for german version:

Ah works now.
I have a new problem:
See pictures.
The green - yellow mix one is mvp 3_6_10b fso 3_6_10-20071028T.exe
The yellow one is mvp 3_6_10b fso 3_6_9.exe
where are the muzzle flashes from the opening screen?

Quote
I don't know if the software mode is even supported anymore. You probably mean the fixed-function pipeline
There's a button in my launcher 5.5a that says software mode.




[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 02, 2008, 07:03:38 pm
Oh yeah, I know SLI would probably be overkill for FSO at the moment, but I play a lot of other stuff.  Wouldn't mind finally being able to run SupComm in Dual monitor mode at uber fps, or World in Conflict, or HL2 Ep 2, etc.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 02, 2008, 07:25:38 pm
Quote
The problem is with the lights.  All of our lights are dynamic, and we need at least 8 of them.  In order to support 8 lights though the shaders become too big to work within SM2.0 limits, meaning that it could only support 3 or 4 lights, depending on the exact shader.  That simply isn't enough to work well, since it would be very noticeable in-game.
Sounds like it wouldn't be a problem in the techroom.
Ingame it can't be achieved since you can't use a mix of the old and new versions I believe?
The shaders either support all of the lights or they don't, there is no half way with it.  You can modify the shaders yourself to support only 3-4 lights if you want, but the official ones will be SM3.0 only, and the current code actually checks that you are SM3.0 capable before it will even try to enable shaders.

And you can mix the programmable and fixed rendering, but it doesn't resolve the performance problem, and it looks like total crap.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 02, 2008, 11:16:11 pm
Hey I've just noticed this issue with nameplate.dds.

Because of transparency handling, this texture is sometimes slightly visible. As current texture has "GTD Orion" it can be a bit confusing. See Nameplate-Original.jpg.
I never did test it fully, but I think that you can fix it with a simple spec map that doesn't reflect anything.  I only did a quick test with it though, so I can't be sure that it actually fixed it properly.

The difference is just in how it's handled with shaders.  The shader has a couple of tricks in it to blend light and env on transparent textures (for cockpits) but this obviously causes a problem on things like the nameplates.  Besides using a spec map I haven't figured out any way around this so far.
The problem is that a nameplate-shine.dds will also be noticeable over the several different WhateverShip-shine.dds maps.

So, Taylor, is there any real problem if we just don't have nameplate.dds? As a missing texture, it isn't rendered at all and then it's really fully transparent  ;) But as I posted I don't know if this could lead to other problems I cannot guess...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 02, 2008, 11:52:12 pm
Oh wait, DaB, you're right. That wasn't the Ra, that was the Scarab. But can you do the Ra? :nervous:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MetalDestroyer on January 03, 2008, 01:08:00 am
@chief1983
You don't relly need a SLI killer machine though. I can max out everything use all image quality imrovement features my card offers, but I still get 60 fps with my 8800 GT.

I won't stop you from buying it though. You might need it in the future. ;)

If you're stuck at 60 fps It's because you setup your screen refresh rate to 60 Hz. And LCD screen didn't do more than 60 Hz. However if you use a CRT, the framerate will be higher since you can set the refresh rate to 75 Hz, 85 Hz and beyond depending on your CRT. So it's not your GPU which is limited.

Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 03, 2008, 01:24:02 am
I think he meant he never goes below 60, not he never gets above it.  And I think you can go higher if you disable V-Sync, not sure if you can always force that off though.  I think most driver control panels have an override for it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: BlackDove on January 03, 2008, 04:30:27 am
DaB, you mind putting the "updated XX.YY.NN" in brackets next to the media VP's you do modify? It's helpful to know to download only those that have changed, and the date they have changed ON. Easier on the hosts of the files too (like, I doubt I need to re-download the music vp every time you post "updated" at the top).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 03, 2008, 04:33:43 am
I don't want to annoy you so please tell me if I do.

Quote
The shaders either support all of the lights or they don't
Quote
And you can mix the programmable and fixed rendering

You seem to contradict yourself here?

My question about the techroom is still not answered.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 05:16:46 am
DaB, you mind putting the "updated XX.YY.NN" in brackets next to the media VP's you do modify? It's helpful to know to download only those that have changed, and the date they have changed ON. Easier on the hosts of the files too (like, I doubt I need to re-download the music vp every time you post "updated" at the top).

There won't be any updates to the files. There will only be some patches and when those work fine, I'll upload the final MediaVPs.
You will have to download all of them.

The MV_Music should also be new by then, otherwise I'll add note to the link.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: BlackDove on January 03, 2008, 05:20:56 am
Nevermind then, thought you updated Core for some reason.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: wolf on January 03, 2008, 05:58:00 am
Quote
The shaders either support all of the lights or they don't
Quote
And you can mix the programmable and fixed rendering
You seem to contradict yourself here?
You can draw one model with fixed function pipeline and then another with shaders, but you can't use both in one draw call. To do so, you would need to do multipass rendering, which is not so good, as taylor already explained.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 03, 2008, 09:46:44 am
Thx

DaB did you notice my new problem (in the post with images) is this correct to ask here?

Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 03, 2008, 09:48:02 am
The problem is that a nameplate-shine.dds will also be noticeable over the several different WhateverShip-shine.dds maps.

So, Taylor, is there any real problem if we just don't have nameplate.dds? As a missing texture, it isn't rendered at all and then it's really fully transparent  ;) But as I posted I don't know if this could lead to other problems I cannot guess...
Other than the game complaining about the missing texture, there shouldn't be a problem with not having it.  But that only solves the problem when it's the blank nameplate, so it does nothing to fix the same issue when you have a real nameplate on there.

Ultimately this is something that a material system would fix.  So, we'll just have to wait for that before this problem can be properly addressed.  Right now all that can be done is these little hacks to make the problem not so bad, rather than actually being able to really fix it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 03, 2008, 10:09:16 am
Other than the game complaining about the missing texture, there shouldn't be a problem with not having it.  But that only solves the problem when it's the blank nameplate, so it does nothing to fix the same issue when you have a real nameplate on there.

Ultimately this is something that a material system would fix.  So, we'll just have to wait for that before this problem can be properly addressed.  Right now all that can be done is these little hacks to make the problem not so bad, rather than actually being able to really fix it.

Hey you've just overtaken my own post...

 :( :( Sadly I've just tested with SM1-03.fs2 that if nameplate.dds is missing, the texture replacement doesn't work and you get no real nameplates. DaBrain, please grab the black nameplate.

(Nevertheless this is an extremely unimportant thing. The transparent nameplate only gets barely visible under certain viewing/lighting angles. In game, it's really hard to notice this issue. So don't waste your time coding a solution unless it solves or improves another game feature too).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 10:12:54 am
Thx

DaB did you notice my new problem (in the post with images) is this correct to ask here?

It's not a problem, the color just changed.

I'm open for color suggestions though. I'm tempted to make some changes for the final release here again.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: BlackDove on January 03, 2008, 10:17:41 am
Change the cyan afterburner glows. They SUCK.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 03, 2008, 10:30:29 am
:( :( Sadly I've just tested with SM1-03.fs2 that if nameplate.dds is missing, the texture replacement doesn't work and you get no real nameplates. DaBrain, please grab the black nameplate.
Texture replacement should still work actually (in theory if not in practice).  I'll consider that a bug and try to get that fixed first thing when I get back to work on the code.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 10:35:02 am
Change the cyan afterburner glows. They SUCK.

That was direct... well... yeah ok.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on January 03, 2008, 11:20:09 am
DaBrain, if you start working for an additional project, your badges will blow the forum formatting :lol:.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 03, 2008, 12:23:34 pm
It's not a problem, the color just changed.

I'm open for color suggestions though. I'm tempted to make some changes for the final release here again.
I really do like yellow ABs although they aren't canon. They look much better than old cyan ones. They look MUCH realer.

But as MediaVPs is intended to be a RETAIL enhancement, I would offer cyan as default and, in an optional vp, the yellow ones. (Although it could be some more packing work).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 03, 2008, 01:02:45 pm
DaB You should read my posts more carefully. Both Pictures were taken with the same MVPs! I used a different exe. The cyan one actually is a cyan-yellow mix if you look closely.

I like the yellow ones much more aswell. Btw i don't like the current look of the engines* in general. for one because they don't look like engines* and because they have some graphics problems and are noncanon.
I saw a pic somewhere with a much better one. (maybe from the fsport or some other mod)

*don't have a better english word. I mean the Engine fx we're talking about all the time.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: SF-Junky on January 03, 2008, 01:58:14 pm
For me, SCP3.9.10 is working just fine yet. Except of a li'll prob with the engine ejection:

(http://sebastian.ramrod-network.de/Freespace/images/SCP3910_1.jpg)

(http://sebastian.ramrod-network.de/Freespace/images/SCP3910_2.jpg)

And some textures (Orion e.g.) seem to be somewhat... washy. Dunno. Using a Radeon x700 Series, latest patch (Dec 4, iirc). But really a very, very nice work, again. Looks fantastic! Especially the HTL Loki. :nod:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: BlackDove on January 03, 2008, 02:10:12 pm
Yeah, the stuff below and including the x800 is Shader 2.0 AFAIK, though that may not be it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: IceyJones on January 03, 2008, 03:00:23 pm
another problem. hope is has not been posted already.....but this is the onyl thing that ive seen so far....here no further problems

the thrusters of the new (great looking) htl ravana are wrong placed:


[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 03, 2008, 03:00:57 pm
DaB You should read my posts more carefully. Both Pictures were taken with the same MVPs! I used a different exe. The cyan one actually is a cyan-yellow mix if you look closely.

I like the yellow ones much more aswell. Btw i don't like the current look of the engines* in general. for one because they don't look like engines* and because they have some graphics problems and are noncanon.
I saw a pic somewhere with a much better one. (maybe from the fsport or some other mod)

*don't have a better english word. I mean the Engine fx we're talking about all the time.

Yeap DaBrain, he's right.

The problem is that you have thrusterXX-XX.dds versions in mv_effects > Maps and thrusterXX-XX.pcx versions also in mv_effects > Effects. The texture loading order has been changed, (explained in Wiki in -mod help (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Command-Line_Reference#-mod)), so old builds load different bitmaps than newest ones.

Select the good textures and place them in Effects subfolder. Map subfolder is a wrong location.

Also there are some other textures in mv_effects>map which shouldn't be there:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 03, 2008, 03:04:20 pm
another problem. hope is has not been posted already.....but this is the onyl thing that ive seen so far....here no further problems

the thrusters of the new (great looking) htl ravana are wrong placed:

Yes, already noticed: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51229.msg1035559.html#msg1035559

That Ravana has one thousand problems. Forget about it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 03, 2008, 03:10:40 pm
A triple post  ;7 ;7 ;7

For me, SCP3.9.10 is working just fine yet. Except of a li'll prob with the engine ejection:

(http://sebastian.ramrod-network.de/Freespace/images/SCP3910_1.jpg)

(http://sebastian.ramrod-network.de/Freespace/images/SCP3910_2.jpg)

And some textures (Orion e.g.) seem to be somewhat... washy. Dunno. Using a Radeon x700 Series, latest patch (Dec 4, iirc). But really a very, very nice work, again. Looks fantastic! Especially the HTL Loki. :nod:

It really seems an issue with your GPU, your Catalyst or whatever. Not a mediavps bug. But I'm not sure.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 03:11:23 pm
@IceyJones Yeah... the patch will fix that.

@ARSPR Yeah, but it's ment for 3.6.10 builds anyway, so the color problem isn't an issue.

Ah some file errors. Damn... I can't patch that. I'll have to note it for the final release.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 03, 2008, 05:46:19 pm
Ah that`s how i got the cyan thruster. Wondered how that happened.

Actually there seem to be a lot of unused textures because mipmaps are used now instead.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 06:49:49 pm
There shouldn't be any.

I deleted all smaller versions of the maps (aka "a" "b" "c" ect.) and only put them back in when the looked different from the original map (=other uv layout for lods).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 03, 2008, 06:53:28 pm
In "Their Finest Hour" it appers there are some beam-free issues

In the nebula fogging is all fuxored to hell, but that could be a Radeon HD3870 driver bug.

oh.. and those missing beam glows for shivans :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 03, 2008, 07:01:57 pm
I am getting a really weird issue with glowmaps.  On standard ships, they look fine, but ever since I installed these new VPs, standard textures on user made ships look like they have no glowmaps (they look like retail textures).  This problem disappears when I use the 3.6.8 zeta MV_Textures VP.

Also - The new Shivan beam effects look great, but they sometimes look kind of odd (see screenshot).

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DrewToby on January 03, 2008, 07:25:31 pm
Regarding the secord part of Blowfish's post above:

Uh, the hell? The Ravanas I run into don't fire anything near that cool looking. I'm getting this straight beam of red light, nothing fancy at all, and it does a massive amount of damage.

Actually, now that I think of it, all the Shivan ships seem to have the same game-breakingly-powerful, solid-red beams...even the Lilith. I just finished watching the Keeper in Blue Planet (with a pilot that worked with the previous VPs) get cut down by a single Lilith on medium. The thing fired maybe...four or five times, or so, and the Keeper went down. The beam was about as wide as the Lilith's body.

I'll go back in-game and see if I can get a snap of it...seems only to have happened to my Shivans. Never had anything weird happen before this, too.

EDIT: Also, just to be sure...these VPs are compatible with everything that worked with the previous batch, right? Like BP.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 07:28:26 pm
I am getting a really weird issue with glowmaps.  On standard ships, they look fine, but ever since I installed these new VPs, standard textures on user made ships look like they have no glowmaps (they look like retail textures).  This problem disappears when I use the 3.6.8 zeta MV_Textures VP.

Also - The new Shivan beam effects look great, but they sometimes look kind of odd (see screenshot).

That can only happen if you didn't delete/remove the mv_models.vp.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 07:33:30 pm
Regarding the secord part of Blowfish's post above:

Uh, the hell? The Ravanas I run into don't fire anything near that cool looking. I'm getting this straight beam of red light, nothing fancy at all, and it does a massive amount of damage.

Actually, now that I think of it, all the Shivan ships seem to have the same game-breakingly-powerful, solid-red beams...even the Lilith. I just finished watching the Keeper in Blue Planet (with a pilot that worked with the previous VPs) get cut down by a single Lilith on medium. The thing fired maybe...four or five times, or so, and the Keeper went down. The beam was about as wide as the Lilith's body.

I'll go back in-game and see if I can get a snap of it...seems only to have happened to my Shivans. Never had anything weird happen before this, too.

EDIT: Also, just to be sure...these VPs are compatible with everything that worked with the previous batch, right? Like BP.

I didn't change any weapon stats in the tables. If the weapons are stronger or weaker, something else is most likely interfering, which probably also explains why the correct effects do not show up.

Please download the readme and follow the instructions step by step.


The compability with mods is yet to be tested. I also noted that there migth be problems with some mods, although only problems of graphical nature. (Also in the readme)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 03, 2008, 07:36:30 pm
I am getting a really weird issue with glowmaps.  On standard ships, they look fine, but ever since I installed these new VPs, standard textures on user made ships look like they have no glowmaps (they look like retail textures).  This problem disappears when I use the 3.6.8 zeta MV_Textures VP.

Also - The new Shivan beam effects look great, but they sometimes look kind of odd (see screenshot).

That can only happen if you didn't delete/remove the mv_models.vp.

But I did remove mv_models.vp.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 07:50:56 pm
The models in the MV_Assets.vp all use renamed textures. Pretty much none of them can even use the maps included in the mv_textures.vp.

Make sure you don't have a mv_models.vp in the root directoy either. Also look for the z_pack.vp.


Check your MV_Assets.vp. Maybe the file is corrupt and doesn't work.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 07:52:09 pm
In "Their Finest Hour" it appers there are some beam-free issues

Has that one been in Mantis before?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 03, 2008, 07:54:49 pm
 
The models in the MV_Assets.vp all use renamed textures. Pretty much none of them can even use the maps included in the mv_textures.vp.

Make sure you don't have a mv_models.vp in the root directoy either. Also look for the z_pack.vp.


Check your MV_Assets.vp. Maybe the file is corrupt and doesn't work.

Well, that would explain why no user-made ships look correct ... if all of the textures are renamed (all the HTL models work fine).

So is it safe to use mv_textures with mv_assets, or will that mess something up?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DrewToby on January 03, 2008, 07:59:30 pm
I didn't change any weapon stats in the tables. If the weapons are stronger or weaker, something else is most likely interfering, which probably also explains why the correct effects do not show up.

Please download the readme and follow the instructions step by step.


The compability with mods is yet to be tested. I also noted that there migth be problems with some mods, although only problems of graphical nature. (Also in the readme)

Yeah, it's not a problem in the installation. That was my first thought. It actually seems to just be the beam itself: just tested it, and found that the ships are using the HRed beam. That explains the monstrous damage, though I thought they had a different look to them. Here's an image of the beam itself.

(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd285/drewboy_t/fs2_open_3_6_10-20071028T2008-01-03.jpg)

Is that the correct effect for the HRed? Solid red, no white core? Seems a little odd, compared to the others, which I stared at long enough to fly into, unfortunately. Did the same with most of the normal-mapped ships.

I know you've heard it before, but you guys (Upgrade Project, et al) are absolutely amazing. @_@
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Talon 1024 on January 03, 2008, 08:05:34 pm
Hey people.  I've really loved this release of the MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta.  The missile engine glows really make it look a lot more realistic.  I was just wondering if you could do something similar for ship thrusters too.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 08:27:57 pm
Well, that would explain why no user-made ships look correct ... if all of the textures are renamed (all the HTL models work fine).

So is it safe to use mv_textures with mv_assets, or will that mess something up?

No, you got it wrong. The texturenames in the models have been renamed, as well as the textures. So using the mv_textures should practially do nothing. It has textures in it, no model is looking for. You might only mess the tables a bit by adding it.

So I suppose your Assets VP isn't working correct.

Is that the correct effect for the HRed? Solid red, no white core?

No it looks broken. Actually no beam effect looks like that.

But again, if the ships have beams they shouldn't have, or the beams do more damage than they should do, there are most likely other VPs, or tbls interfering. Make sure your FS2 directory is clean. Also look into the data folder. There really shouldn't be any tables in there.


Hey people.  I've really loved this release of the MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta.  The missile engine glows really make it look a lot more realistic.  I was just wondering if you could do something similar for ship thrusters too.

Thanks. Finally somebody wrote something about that. ;)
The flares for the missiles where actually an idea for SoL, but I was able to expand that by making use of the mipmaps. So the flares fade in. ;)

I'd love to see that for the fighters, but it would be quite a bit of work and I won't do it, but it is possible.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Ghost on January 03, 2008, 08:42:42 pm
Didn't run any missions, just looked through the tech room. Good job, Devs!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 03, 2008, 08:55:11 pm

Yeah, it's not a problem in the installation. That was my first thought. It actually seems to just be the beam itself: just tested it, and found that the ships are using the HRed beam. That explains the monstrous damage, though I thought they had a different look to them. Here's an image of the beam itself.

Is that the correct effect for the HRed? Solid red, no white core? Seems a little odd, compared to the others, which I stared at long enough to fly into, unfortunately. Did the same with most of the normal-mapped ships.

If that is BluePlanet (which I think it is), then those Ravanas are supposed to be using HReds instead of LReds in that mission.  Don't know what's wrong with those beams though ... the HRed looks OK to me (aside from having no beamglow).  I think that the issue you are experiencing occurs when one of the beam textures defined in the table can't be found anywhere, though I have no idea why this would happen.


No, you got it wrong. The texturenames in the models have been renamed, as well as the textures. So using the mv_textures should practially do nothing. It has textures in it, no model is looking for. You might only mess the tables a bit by adding it.

So I suppose your Assets VP isn't working correct.

But won't user-made ships still be looking for those textures?  Or are those textures supposed to be in mv_assets too?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 03, 2008, 09:28:13 pm
If that is BluePlanet (which I think it is), then those Ravanas are supposed to be using HReds instead of LReds in that mission.  Don't know what's wrong with those beams though ... the HRed looks OK to me (aside from having no beamglow).  I think that the issue you are experiencing occurs when one of the beam textures defined in the table can't be found anywhere, though I have no idea why this would happen.

Well, maybe Blueplanet is requesting beam textures from an older MediaVP, which don't exist anymore. I don't know.

The first thing I'd try, is use FS2 without any mods and see if that helps.


But won't user-made ships still be looking for those textures?

Yes, that's why I wrote that into the readme.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 03, 2008, 09:47:53 pm
So, uh, why does MV_Effects\models (with the exception of shockwave.pof) have redundant POFs as contained in MV_Assets\models? I can determine a difference with some, but not all.

(by differences, I mean OTHER than texture renaming.)

Also, mv_shockwave-shp and mv_shockwave-wep are identical between MV_Effects and MV_AdvEffects.

*EDit: Corrected myself before I embarassed myself.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 03, 2008, 10:52:54 pm
Hmm ... the HTL Dis seems to have some holes in its texture, possibly maps that didn't get renamed?  Also the HTL TAC 1 (I never thought there would actually be one) seems to have too little mass - I can knock it around with Subachs and Tempests, and it has a seizure when it blows up.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: FT-Hunter on January 03, 2008, 11:12:09 pm
I will place a mirror up as soon as i get these files.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 03, 2008, 11:17:13 pm
blowfish: The mass value is attributed, but the CENTER of mass is not, according to PCS2.

The moment of inertia values are radically different as well.

**Edit: Changing the moment of inertia values in ModelView32 corrected it for me. I was going to edit in PCS2, but upon saving, the file size doubled for no reason what so ever (that I could determine). Which sucked, because I had to hex edit the pof to rename debris-2 to debris02.

Also, I noticed that while I fixed the thrusters positions on the Ravana, I forgot that the model lacked collision. From the thread ARSPR linked to (The topic for the Ravana) a RAR was attached which had both fixed thrusters and collision.

Capital2S-01.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/Capital2S-01.7z) is an updated copy of that model.
MD5: 8A870A7DF59FB45A1F46D0366AE14370

And the fixed Cargo Container:
Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 8F800B8E7E7B08C0733EAC3AC0F2F196

DaBrain: You might want to clear out your cache folder. I've found alot of blueplanet cache files in MV_Assets. I also have alot of cache files being generated INSPITE of them existing in MV_Assets: AstB01, AstB02, AstB03, Belial, CMeasure01, spacehunk and naturally, Capital2S-01 and Cargo03. Adding the updated ones into MV_Assets does not generate new ones.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 04, 2008, 10:49:59 am
So, uh, why does MV_Effects\models (with the exception of shockwave.pof) have redundant POFs as contained in MV_Assets\models? I can determine a difference with some, but not all.

(by differences, I mean OTHER than texture renaming.)

Also, mv_shockwave-shp and mv_shockwave-wep are identical between MV_Effects and MV_AdvEffects.

*EDit: Corrected myself before I embarassed myself.
Yeap, there are a lot of useless models in mv_effects. They're never going to be loaded if assets is present.

OTOH Zacam is right. If as a installation rule you post that mv_adveffects needs mv_effects, then you can delete the redundant shockwave definition tables from mv_adveffects.

Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Darklord42 on January 04, 2008, 11:33:54 am
Thanks for the small fixes Zacam I didn't see those.  I was just about to mention the crazy cargo container when it took damage spinning in all directions.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 04, 2008, 12:31:27 pm
Quote
other uv layout for lods
Didn't think about that.

Quote
The flares for the missiles where actually an idea for SoL, but I was able to expand that by making use of the mipmaps. So the flares fade in

only if you use trilinear filtering.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Dysko on January 04, 2008, 12:34:01 pm
Hmm... is it an error in my install, or the subspace model (not the warp one, I mean the tunnel in which the last FS1 mission was set) has the old textures? :nervous:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Skarab on January 04, 2008, 03:53:48 pm
Hi, new guy here so please don't put me in a trashcan and take my lunch money  :nervous:
First things first:  The original Freespace as well as freespace 2 are without a doubt 2 of my all time favorite games, and that was before I happened upon FSO a couple of months ago.  I can't begin to thank the community here enough, it just blows me away the amount of work that's gone into this project.  The fact that there's not a penny charged for any of it is just icing on the cake.  A personal thanks from me for all of this.  I enjoy it all so much I've even stopped playing World of Warcraft for it  :D  How far are you guys planning to go with all this anyway?

In regards to the 3.6.10 beta, on my system I've had no bugs that haven't already been mentioned in this thread, and the few that I do have are not game-breakers, which gives me plenty of patience for the testing to continue.  The above post did catch my attention though, as that's one of the problems I'm having as well in the last fsport mission... original retail textures appearing.  Since is my first time playing all the way through it my 1st thought was that it was just something that hadn't been upgraded yet and I paid it no mind.  Darth DySkO gives me the impression that this shouldn't be the case.  I tried a search about this on the forums but couldn't find anything definitive one way or the other.  If that subspace tunnel has in fact been upgraded, do any of you know of a thread addressing this issue, or know what files are involved that could be causing the retail texture to appear over the upgraded one?

Again, can't thank you guys enough for all this hard work, you definitely have me interested in researching how to do some of this stuff myself.  Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on January 04, 2008, 03:59:30 pm
:welcomesilver:

Welcome to the HLPBB!!!

I renounced, I don't think I will DL the Media VPs. That site doesn't really like me and my slow connection won't enable me to succeed with normal DLing.

So...I'm waiting for the definitive version! ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 04, 2008, 04:06:17 pm
Hmm... is it an error in my install, or the subspace model (not the warp one, I mean the tunnel in which the last FS1 mission was set) has the old textures? :nervous:
I think it has the old textures. Not that I'd know what the old textures look like but these certainly don't look like the ones in 3.6.8 Zeta.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Dysko on January 04, 2008, 04:21:06 pm
Hmm... is it an error in my install, or the subspace model (not the warp one, I mean the tunnel in which the last FS1 mission was set) has the old textures? :nervous:
I think it has the old textures. Not that I'd know what the old textures look like but these certainly don't look like the ones in 3.6.8 Zeta.
Play Derelict's subspace mission from Blaise's re-release. In the loading screen, you can see the upgraded subspace.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 04, 2008, 04:28:39 pm
Play Derelict's subspace mission from Blaise's re-release. In the loading screen, you can see the upgraded subspace.
Ya I know. So that is the 3.6.8, right? It's been a while since I've seen subspace tunnels. In any case, it looks different, and somewhat older now, with 3.6.10s.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 05, 2008, 05:18:32 am
And the fixed Cargo Container:
Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 8F800B8E7E7B08C0733EAC3AC0F2F196

Ooops, this model still shows this error: Mantis 1555 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1555)

(I mantised several vp issues as DaBrain asked for that way in his first post).

I know little about pof editing so I don't know how to fix it.

OFFTOPIC: HEY!!! I've just seen my new surname  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ION3 on January 05, 2008, 06:50:53 am
I'm currently making a new model for cargo03.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: karajorma on January 05, 2008, 10:19:08 am
OFFTOPIC: HEY!!! I've just seen my new surname  :lol: :lol:

Yeah it was a little thank you for all the work you've done hunting down bugs and reporting them on Mantis. Don't think it hasn't been noticed :D Fubar got one for much the same reason.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 05, 2008, 12:04:29 pm
In "Their Finest Hour" it appers there are some beam-free issues

Has that one been in Mantis before?

no idea.. maybe
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 05, 2008, 01:22:33 pm
OFFTOPIC: HEY!!! I've just seen my new surname  :lol: :lol:

This is also for the great help with the MediaVPs before the public release. You found really a lot of bugs and even fixed some of them.  :yes:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 05, 2008, 02:24:04 pm
nope the problem with that mission wasn't in mantis
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 05, 2008, 02:25:04 pm
And the fixed Cargo Container:
Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 8F800B8E7E7B08C0733EAC3AC0F2F196

Ooops, this model still shows this error: Mantis 1555 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1555)

(I mantised several vp issues as DaBrain asked for that way in his first post).

I know little about pof editing so I don't know how to fix it.

OFFTOPIC: HEY!!! I've just seen my new surname  :lol: :lol:

Which is strange.....because the model DOES have 5 LODS and 2 Debris. So what exavtly does "detail level mismatch" mean?

And I'd Mantis, but I have never gotten registration to work the last time I tried during the 3.6.8 VP days. I'll try again here in a moment.

Would I want to mantis that SM1-02.fs2 should not be using Hercs (Cancer 1 and Cancer 2) but should be using Loki's?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 05, 2008, 03:30:46 pm
The AAA is definitely missing the orb.

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/460/screen0526nv9.jpg)

And the particles seem to trail behind the emitter. Is that mediavps or SCP?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 05, 2008, 03:55:55 pm
Regarding nameplates: The Orion in SM1-04 don't show them because
Code: [Select]
;;FSO 3.6.8;; $Texture Replace:
;;FSO 3.6.8;; +old: capital01-05a
;;FSO 3.6.8;; +new: GTDCarthage

The texture is now capital01-05. Note the missing A. If that's just supposed to be a nameplate texture, why not rename it to NamePlate?

*Edit: Dur. Because for what ever reason, that texture is also being applied to the opposite side of the model as well as the "nameplate" region of the model.

*2nd Edit: Also in that same mission, should references to "Oron Destroyed" be "Orion Destroyed"?

*3rd Edit: I've also noticed in the #Background bitmaps section that alot of the ;;FSO entries for suns conflicts with the original. EX: SM1-01, the FSO code makes it Green while the original code had it Gold. (FYI, IMO the Gold looks LOADS better.)

On a related but minor nitpick, not all non-nebula missions have updated replacement backgrounds, but as they're training missions I suppose that would be low priority.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 05, 2008, 10:00:43 pm
apparently the mission bug i am expiriencing goes back to retail - i just keep forgetting

on XT builds i have fogging non-functionality in the nebula
on normal builds (WMC's cockpit redux) i have corruption in the warpmap model (yes i deleted my .ibx files)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 06, 2008, 12:12:52 am
I know I keep bringing this up, but why on Earth aren't the LSNebs in effects instead of adveffects?

EVERY system capable of running mv_effects can also run the LSNebulae without a performance hit.  They are required for so many mods now that they should be a part of the basic effects package.  Adveffects does add a serious performance drain on low-end PCs; but if a PC can run the SCP effects package then it can quite easily take the added minor burden of the LS Nebulae.

Honestly... I've tested this on a 7 year old system (1.2 Ghz processor) with video cards ranging from a GeForce 2 to a GeForce 4 Ti4600 and Radeon 9500 and 9800Pro's... all test configurations easily handled the effects VP and the LSNebs, but adveffects entirely destroyed performance.

Again, yes, some of us have made LSNeb packages that people can download but once again these nebulae are basically a requirement for recent mod releases and are being included in everything from the Restoration project - they should be a part of the basic effects package.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 06, 2008, 12:17:32 am
I know I keep bringing this up, but why on Earth aren't the LSNebs in effects instead of adveffects?

EVERY system capable of running mv_effects can also run the LSNebulae without a performance hit.  They are required for so many mods now that they should be a part of the basic effects package.  Adveffects does add a serious performance drain on low-end PCs; but if a PC can run the SCP effects package then it can quite easily take the added minor burden of the LS Nebulae.

Honestly... I've tested this on a 7 year old system (1.2 Ghz processor) with video cards ranging from a GeForce 2 to a GeForce 4 Ti4600 and Radeon 9500 and 9800Pro's... all test configurations easily handled the effects VP and the LSNebs, but adveffects entirely destroyed performance.

Again, yes, some of us have made LSNeb packages that people can download but once again these nebulae are basically a requirement for recent mod releases and are being included in everything from the Restoration project - they should be a part of the basic effects package.

I tend to agree.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on January 06, 2008, 02:16:16 am
I have the 'low quality' LSNebs that i converted into DXT1c - mostly 512 x 512 except for the 'main' effects which are 1024 x 1024. Those could probably be added to 'effects'. And for the record the main reason for changing to DDS files is that atm i have all the LS nebs in less than 10 megs rar file...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ShivanSpS on January 06, 2008, 02:18:07 am
Wait, LSNebulae is needed for mods, it should be in the effects not in adveffects...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on January 06, 2008, 02:43:58 am
Just checked.. Which i should have done before posting the earlier one... The LS nebula files (compressed DDS) are in the effects vp but they do not have any table entry - like effects-str.tbm - to 'activate them'. There were also few other tables that could have been changed from TBLs into TBMs in the beta mediavps as well
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Grizzly on January 06, 2008, 02:52:52 am
 :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on January 06, 2008, 09:55:50 am
The new music.vp destroys custom music in most mods, unless you put their music table into the Betamediavps folder.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Dysko on January 06, 2008, 10:35:10 am
If LS' nebulae don't have a table entry in the effects .vp, why do I see nebulae as background with Admiral Nelson's modified missions?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on January 06, 2008, 10:52:18 am
adveffects has the required table data
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Dysko on January 06, 2008, 10:53:54 am
adveffects has the required table data
Forgot to say... I do not have adveffects.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: CP5670 on January 06, 2008, 11:21:28 am
I finally got a few minutes this morning to try out these VPs. The generally looks excellent apart from the few glitches already mentioned. The new mission loading screen in particular is great.

I did notice a few problems though. The main issue is that the Maxim and Circe still look like complete crap compared to what they were like in retail. I'm surprised that nothing has still been done about this, as they've been this way for over three years and I have brought up the issue countless times in the past (and whenever I did, people generally agreed with me). Maybe it has been there so long that people have forgotten what these weapons normally look like in retail. :p I would strongly suggest reverting to the retail effects for these particular weapons.

Also, the muzzle flashes are quite cool, but can be distracting on some fighters that have their primary firing points close to the cockpit (try a Morning Star with a Ulysses for example). It would be nice to have a command line option to disable them or to specify a global multiplier for their size.

I'll check out these VPs in more detail next weekend, when I have more time.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 06, 2008, 11:25:07 am
Just checked.. Which i should have done before posting the earlier one... The LS nebula files (compressed DDS) are in the effects vp but they do not have any table entry - like effects-str.tbm - to 'activate them'. There were also few other tables that could have been changed from TBLs into TBMs in the beta mediavps as well

That's odd.

I haven't been able to download them yet (not at home) so I was just going by the readme which distinctly says the his-res versions are in adveffects... of course, I guess that could just mean the table entry to activate them is in adveffects and the files themselves are in effects.

Regardless, effects should be all that's required to get the his-res LS nebulae working.

And yeah, the DDS versions of the LSNebs are great... much smaller overall package.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on January 06, 2008, 11:29:29 am
Adveffects has higher quality versions.. It contains the same files as uncompressed DDS files.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 06, 2008, 12:47:38 pm
were the IBXes shipped in the mediavp's generated with a taylor build? on non-taylor builds they result in the Shards of Doom(TM) so i had to disable using cached IBXes

whereas in taylor builds they appear to be fine, but instead nebula fogging is non-functional

[edit]
on that note... in xt1207 nebula fogging works again
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 06, 2008, 01:00:50 pm
The new music.vp destroys custom music in most mods, unless you put their music table into the Betamediavps folder.

Yes, it seems that overwriting tables has stopped working in many cases with the new mediavps.  For instance, I had a tbm in my Freespace/Data/Tables folder that changed the max escort ships to 15 (escort-hdg.tbm) which worked fine before, but stopped working as soon as I installed the beta vps.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: CP5670 on January 06, 2008, 01:22:23 pm
The only thing I can suggest is to make sure you're giving priority to the campaign VPs over the media VPs. There is no simple answer to this problem in general. Last I checked, the tbms always have priority over data in tbls, and that includes tbls that are in a higher priority mod folder. This is necessary for them to have any effect at all, even when used with just retail data.

The only real solution is for campaigns to be designed with the media VPs in mind (by using their own custom tbms to overwrite the media VP ones) and for their creators to release updates when media VPs come out to ensure that nothing in the media VP tbms overwrites anything in the campaign files. I will be doing this with PI in a few weeks.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ShivanSpS on January 06, 2008, 02:22:54 pm
This was already reported right?

(http://i2.tinypic.com/6ytz6n9.png)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 06, 2008, 03:28:50 pm
Regarding nameplates: The Orion in SM1-04 don't show them because
Code: [Select]
;;FSO 3.6.8;; $Texture Replace:
;;FSO 3.6.8;; +old: capital01-05a
;;FSO 3.6.8;; +new: GTDCarthage

The texture is now capital01-05. Note the missing A.

I've made a search using Windows Grep and this problem shows up in the next missions:

SM1-04
SM1-10
SM2-04
SM2-05
SM3-07

I upload fixed missions (I've used the ultra powerful mission editor called Notepad).

BUT I wouldn't use them because of ... (continue reading)

Quote
If that's just supposed to be a nameplate texture, why not rename it to NamePlate?

*Edit: Dur. Because for what ever reason, that texture is also being applied to the opposite side of the model as well as the "nameplate" region of the model.
Zacam is fully right. Capital01-05 is a tile also used on the other side of the ship (I DO LOVE PCS2  :yes:)

So this texture replacement is not really a good idea.

As he suggests, I think Orion model (but only capital01.pof, not capital01a.pof or capital01b.pof) needs a nameplate.dds addition just over the right sided capital01-05. And then the texture replacement should be applied over this nameplate.dds instead of capital01-05.

So please, could any modder edit capital01.pof in order to add this nameplate texture?

Quote
*2nd Edit: Also in that same mission, should references to "Oron Destroyed" be "Orion Destroyed"?
There are a lot of typos in original missions. (I remember wing name changes among others). I wouldn't worry much about them as the front-end user won't notice them.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 06, 2008, 03:30:08 pm
The nameplate is supposed to be visible on both sides of the Orion.  Nothing is wrong with it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 06, 2008, 03:32:08 pm
(I DO LOVE PCS2  :yes:)


bob and i try :D
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 06, 2008, 03:51:27 pm
The nameplate is supposed to be visible on both sides of the Orion.  Nothing is wrong with it.

That's not good because left side one is cropped. You can end reading ...TD Bastio...

Just checked.. Which i should have done before posting the earlier one... The LS nebula files (compressed DDS) are in the effects vp but they do not have any table entry - like effects-str.tbm - to 'activate them'. There were also few other tables that could have been changed from TBLs into TBMs in the beta mediavps as well
Yep. Stars.tbl should be moved from MV_Adveffects to MV_Effects vp.

I think there was a problem with tbm and stars.tbl. OTOH I don't think a tbm is worthy in this case. Stars.tbl is quite easily edited
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: castor on January 06, 2008, 03:52:47 pm
Looking good  :yes:
Just one issue so far: It looks like there is something wrong with Herc's glow map - the whole ship gets lit up.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 06, 2008, 03:58:06 pm
In "A game of Tag" i don't have any tag missiles.... ye' olde loadout problem strikes again
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 06, 2008, 04:06:14 pm
In "A game of Tag" i don't have any tag missiles.... ye' olde loadout problem strikes again
Strange. Just tested (through Ctrl+Shift+S) and I get 40 TAG-A missiles  :confused:

(A corrupted pilot maybe or even an unknown corruption pilot issue??)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 06, 2008, 04:16:41 pm
In "A game of Tag" i don't have any tag missiles.... ye' olde loadout problem strikes again
Strange. Just tested (through Ctrl+Shift+S) and I get 40 TAG-A missiles  :confused:

(A corrupted pilot maybe or even an unknown corruption pilot issue??)
I've just been playing the main campaign with 'dem new vps and worked fine. So, a pilot corruption or an unwanted vp lurking around somewhere.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: DaBrain on January 06, 2008, 04:38:16 pm
This was already reported right?

http://i2.tinypic.com/6ytz6n9.png

Yes. Known problem... and I blame everybody but me for it. ;)

In opposite-world
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 06, 2008, 07:58:43 pm
i'm so sick and tired of having to delete my pilot constantly - especially when it causes me to loose program

solutions pls
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 07, 2008, 03:05:19 am
i'm so sick and tired of having to delete my pilot constantly - especially when it causes me to loose program

solutions pls
Hey Kazan, you are a coder and then you know how difficult bug hunting is. Don't moan about it.

Pilot corruption shouldn't happen. The latest builds even have a new initial check which doesn't allow you to start the game with a pilot that lacks the available campaign. (You get a warning screen where you can go to pilot selection screen, to campaign room or exit the game).

If there's still some kind of corruption issue, please try to reproduce it and then MANTIS the exact steps. It's a PITA if you lose your pilot progress but this is a hard life. You can always play any mission you want through Ctrl+Shif+S (although I know it's not the same).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 07, 2008, 10:23:20 am
last time i tried to touch something that remotely touched pilot code it wasn't pretty because taylor has a big pilot file update coming
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ShivanSpS on January 07, 2008, 10:53:44 am
mmm just a sugestion, it shouldt the modified FS2 mission files to use the LS nebulas in the mediavps???
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 07, 2008, 11:30:58 am
mmm just a sugestion, it shouldt the modified FS2 mission files to use the LS nebulas in the mediavps???

just maybe :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 07, 2008, 11:23:49 pm
And the fixed Cargo Container:
Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 8F800B8E7E7B08C0733EAC3AC0F2F196

Ooops, this model still shows this error: Mantis 1555 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1555)

(I mantised several vp issues as DaBrain asked for that way in his first post).

I know little about pof editing so I don't know how to fix it.


Under 3.6.9-debug and 3.6.10 I cannot reproduce this one, so I have no idea what it's in reference to and there are 5 LODS in the POF in both ModelView32 and PCS2. *shrugs*

However, not that verification is needed but until my mantis login situation is sorted out, I can confirm reproducing 1557 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1557).

All of these are for capital2t-01.pof:
Code: [Select]
Path: $path02
Vertex: 1
Turret model id:22

Path: $path02
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:11

Path: $path02
Vertex: 2
Turret model id:22

Path: $path03
Vertex: 2
Turret model id:21

Path: $path02
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:22

Path: $path03
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:11

Path: $path03 (This one twice)
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:21

Path: $path03
Vertex: 2
Turret model id:28

Path: $path04
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:11

Path: $path04
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:21

Path: $path04
Vertex: 3
Turret model id:28

Haven't loaded any missions with the science vessel in use, but the Moloch and Dis have not given me any messages yet.

1184 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1184) and 1542 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1542) I am unable to reproduce with 3.6.9 (Regular and debug) with 3.6.10 VP's.

The screenshot that ShivanSP posted, happens under 3.6.10 exe's (10/28 and 12/07 w/wout 1119 shader vp's) but does NOT happen with 3.6.9 exe's, but I do get the following error messages from 3.6.9-debug:
Code: [Select]
Warning: EFF: No frame images were found.  EFF, SbeamAglow.eff, is invalid.

File:j:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\bmpman\bmpman.cpp
Line: 1846
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    parse_weapon()    parse_weaponstbl()    parse_modular_table()    weapon_init()    game_init()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()    kernel32.dll 7c816ff7()
------------------------------------------------------------------

Warning: Too many beam sections for weapon BFRed - max is 5
File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Weapon\Weapons.cpp
Line: 3070
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    parse_weaponstbl()    parse_modular_table()    weapon_init()    game_init()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()    kernel32.dll 7c816ff7()
------------------------------------------------------------------
The first one is repeated. Also:
Code: [Select]
Warning: Couldn't open texture 'Akheton_Bitmap'
referenced by weapon 'Akheton SDG'

File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Weapon\Weapons.cpp
Line: 2145
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    parse_weaponstbl()    parse_modular_table()    weapon_init()    game_init()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()    kernel32.dll 7c816ff7()
------------------------------------------------------------------

Warning: EFF: Unable to load all frames for 'htlravana-glow.eff', stopping at #63

File:j:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\bmpman\bmpman.cpp
Line: 1854
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    model_load_texture()    read_model_file()    model_load()    labviewer_change_model()    change_ship_lod()    DoMouseUp()    OnFrame()    OnFrame()    OnFrame()    OnFrame()    lab_do_frame()    game_do_state()    gameseq_process_events()    game_main()    WinMain()------------------------------------------------------------------
is generated as well.

Another -debug error that occurs (and I know there's a mantis report that contains it, but I can no longer find it for some reason) is this:
Code: [Select]
Warning: Couldn't open texture 'vassingleengine'
referenced by model 'capital03.pof'

File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Model\ModelRead.cpp
Line: 3056
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    read_model_file()    model_load()    labviewer_change_model()    change_ship_lod()    DoMouseUp()    OnFrame()    OnFrame()    OnFrame()    OnFrame()    lab_do_frame()    game_do_state()    gameseq_process_events()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()------------------------------------------------------------------

Unrelated, but the multi-mission-pack missions "MassiveBattle" and "MassiveBattle2" says "Warning: Unable to find a sufficient number of bitmaps for this mission's background.  The background will not be displayed.".

Attached is warning and related messages ONLY from 3.6.10 1207-debug log w/3.6.10 media vps in Missions SM1-01, SM1-02, SM1-03 and Loop1-1.
(Right-Click "Save As"):010708-FSO-DebugLog.txt (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/010708-FSO-DebugLog.txt)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Tantalus53 on January 08, 2008, 09:34:32 am
...Anyone else notice that the maps for the subspace corridor (IE when the mission takes place in subspace) Is missing?

If this was already mentioned, my bad.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 08, 2008, 11:01:21 am
Just out of spite, I tested out how different sun images interact with these MediaVP's.

In my opinion they interact spectacularly well. The stars came from a dude whose nick consisted of "m" and some string of numbers after it, if I recall correctly; he was making realistic stars for Warzone (and did quite a bunch of them before disappearing) and out of courtesy he also provided a set of stars to replace the retail suns. I quite like them. And I'd even say they look better to my eye than the suns in these MediaVP's at the moment.

(http://i4.tinypic.com/89sr95s.png)

I can post these if anyone wants to experiment with them... I'm gonna keep using these for sure. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 08, 2008, 11:10:01 am
I can post these if anyone wants to experiment with them...
Please do. At least the screenie looks awfully pretty.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 08, 2008, 11:24:27 am
This was m2258734a.  He made quite a few stars, actually.  I was intending to replace all of the stars in the FS2 and FS1 campaigns with his.  I am missing Vega and Sirius to complete FS2.  I seem to have lost the original stars.tbl I made to go with them, but he included the correct RGB codes in the original thread so I could reconstruct them.  This is to the point someone raised earlier about the star color in the LS2 missions; I never went back to finally adjust those as I was expecting to replace them all with proper stars anyway.  I asked another person to help me with Vega and Sirius, but that never went anywhere either, and I sort of forgot about the project.

Mission 1 with his Deneb (but without lens flares as this image is old).

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Deneb1.jpg)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 08, 2008, 11:31:06 am
Yeah, that's the guy. m2258734a, gotta remember that... :rolleyes: ;7 Perhaps he forgot his username instead of password?

Here's a VP version (http://www.mediafire.com/?9ojunjayyn8).

And here's a directory version (http://www.mediafire.com/?chfdxjmk1g1) of the files, whichever you prefer to use.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 08, 2008, 11:37:40 am
If anyone would care to create Sirius and Vega, I can put the 'real stars' into the media vps.  All three stars needed are white, anyway.

His Betelgeuse:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Betelgeuse2.jpg)

His Eltanin (Gamma Draconis):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Eltanin.jpg)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Darklord42 on January 08, 2008, 01:26:05 pm
I was hoping that that project would come back to be put in the media vps those stars are awesome!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 08, 2008, 01:31:43 pm
Do you know anyone who likes making stars? :)  Just two systems are needed to complete FS2, and five more to complete all of FS1, Awakenings, ST:R, Cardinal Spear, Warzone and Aeos Affair.  Basically the fellow was working in descending star size order, so the main sequence stars are not completed.  Fantasy systems are excluded, as they don't have any 'proper' stars in any case.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: M87 on January 09, 2008, 03:45:17 pm
m2258734a, gotta remember that... :rolleyes: ;7 Perhaps he forgot his username instead of password?
So that's what my username used to be. ;)

Seriously though, I would like to apologize to all of you for my sudden leave without saying a word for over half a year. The last couple of semesters have been rough, and I also had to manage a loss in the family. However, I could have let you guys know what was going on instead of leaving you all in the dark.

Well, I do not like leaving things unfinished. So with that said:

Main Sequence Stars of FS2 (https://webspace.utexas.edu/maa945/FSSCP/MainSequenceFS2.rar)

RGB Color Values:

Sirius A: 181 199 255

Sirius B: 168 189 255

Vega: 185 201 255

I made Vega oblate on purpose, since it is a known physical property of the star. The equatorial radius is a little more than 20% larger than the polar radius. However, I didn't simulate gravity darkening (the poles should be brighter than the equator). If you all don't think this deviates from canon too much, I can do some experiments in the future and keep you all posted. Also, Vega's immense debris disk, another key feature, shouldn't be a priority in the FS Universe.

I won't be able to login as much as I used to before my unexpected leave, but I will try from time to time to post updates covering the completion of main sequence stars in the FS Universe, as well as any extras requested through PMs. Sorry to have been such a stranger, but the project has been resurrected.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Darklord42 on January 09, 2008, 03:58:42 pm
Hallelujah!  The proticall sun returneth! :D
thank you so much, and welcome back.
Sorry to hear about your loss   :(
But that does complete the FS2 set doesn't it?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 09, 2008, 04:12:05 pm
Woo! I can't wait for these to be finished! :D
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 09, 2008, 05:35:33 pm
Welcome back. :)

It does complete FS2.  I will work on these shortly; I need to recalculate the RGB & luminosity values used in stars.tbl.  A possible complication is the lens flares, which aren't going to be exactly the same color as the stars themselves unless these too are all remade. I'll post the other requirements for FS1 etc, too.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 09, 2008, 06:25:22 pm
w00t

These things are so damn pretty, can't wait for the final 3.6.10 vps.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: IceFire on January 09, 2008, 10:25:50 pm
In the mv_music.zip I just downloaded...it seems to be missing FS2_Amb_A01.ogg.  Good reason for that or just left out?  Just thought I'd bring it up.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: CP5670 on January 09, 2008, 10:28:50 pm
I don't think we have a high quality version of that one. If you know of one, send me a link and I'll update the VP with it. It's possible that I left one out by accident.

Note that there are a handful of cases where the music file appears to be higher quality, but it's just upsampled from the 22khz version and sounds totally identical to the old one. I don't remember the one you mentioned as being such a case though.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: IceyJones on January 10, 2008, 01:41:29 am
i have one suggestion for the improoved grafic-fx of shield hits.....imho this fx is in principle realy great, but it looks like a wall during a hit. it is not transparent.....would it be possible to increase the transparency for this effect?!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 10, 2008, 11:32:29 am
i got a problem but i dont know if it can be considered a bug or not or if this is just some random problem with my computer. Some beams like the shivan and AAA beams do not have the charge up effect or the "energy ball", for lack of a better term, during the actual firing phase. I think they are related to the MV_advancedeffect file, but having no modding experience whatsoever i cannot say for sure. a picture just to show what i mean.

DaBrain as you asked I was going to mantis it but this seems this very same issue, so I post it here although I suppose you've already found the reason.

On game startup with 3.6.9. debug I get the following errors:
  • SBeamAglow.eff from Advanced Effects doesn't have their related frames. This is the cause for those missing beam glows.
  • And also, 3.6.9. debug complains about BFRed (redefined in Advanced Effects beams2-wep.tbm) having more than 5 sections. Is this limit going to be pushed up in 3.6.10 builds?

I've re-run my AllxxxxShips.fs2 missions with XT1207 debug and then I've looked at the fs2_open.log. In addition to these two beam issues I've also noticed:





OTOH there are a lot of warnings like the following
Code: [Select]
Warning: Ignoring unrecognized subsystem fighterbay, believed to be in ship capital01.pof
And believe me when I say that there's A LOT of them.

What are they?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 10, 2008, 11:40:19 am
Speaking of beamglow, I noticed one interesting thing. I actually saw the beamglow for the AAA on a Fenris, but it lasted about half a second.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 10, 2008, 11:50:58 am
Oooops I nearly forget. I had prevously mantised several issues from 1554 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1554) to 1557 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1557)

Expert modeler help is specially needed in 1556 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1556). Please check it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on January 10, 2008, 12:34:19 pm
Do you know anyone who likes making stars? :)  Just two systems are needed to complete FS2, and five more to complete all of FS1, Awakenings, ST:R, Cardinal Spear, Warzone and Aeos Affair.  Basically the fellow was working in descending star size order, so the main sequence stars are not completed.  Fantasy systems are excluded, as they don't have any 'proper' stars in any case.
I like making suns. I already made afew. IE red, gold and some others.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 10, 2008, 05:38:58 pm
It's not a problem, the color just changed.

I'm open for color suggestions though. I'm tempted to make some changes for the final release here again.
I really do like yellow ABs although they aren't canon. They look much better than old cyan ones. They look MUCH realer.

But as MediaVPs is intended to be a RETAIL enhancement, I would offer cyan as default and, in an optional vp, the yellow ones. (Although it could be some more packing work).

If MediaVPs are intended to be a retail enhancement, and the retail color sucks, then changing the color via MediaVPs seems completely legit as an enhancement goal; further, so many graphical changes have been made which distinguish FSO from Retail that, cosmetically, this is already a whole other game anyhow.  I say go with what looks best .  I mean, a simple color change doesn't really mean much re: what is or isn't canon (unless we start talking about changing the beamglows).

Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 10, 2008, 07:38:22 pm
Whoa.

I just got a chance to test these when I fired up Dunkerque.

Now, I don't have GLSL support enabled (no shader 3 support on this vieo card) so perhaps that may be contributing to the issues, but I am having major LOD issues.  The Arcadia, Manticore, Orion, Argo... everything but the GTF fighters look like absolute garbage.

In other words - this takes it back to worse-than-retail quality if you don't have shader 3 support.  Is normal mapping entirely replacing the old high-resolution ships?

I'll post a screenshot momentarily.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 10, 2008, 07:51:13 pm
Apologize for the darkness, apparently the 1028 Xt build doesn't preserve gamma settings when it takes screenshots.

http://members.shaw.ca/jillianandryan/files/freespace/screen0002.tga

At any rate - have the normal maps entirely replaced the his-res textures on the non-HTL ships?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 10, 2008, 07:54:24 pm
I prefer to use -no_set_gamma with FS2_Open, I got the overall colour settings so good that I don't really want FS2_Open to use any different settings.

That, and if your desktop gammaa/colour profile is a customized one, the screenies will not look like they appear in-game.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 10, 2008, 08:05:57 pm
Ryan, did you double-check the in game graphics options that your model detail option is set to full?  If so, possibly try a new pilot, maybe your old one got corrupted?  That's all I can think of.  Normal maps aren't replacing any models, only enhancing them.  Be sure to check with no mods too, and possibly look in the tech room or the F3 menu just in case.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 10, 2008, 08:22:04 pm
The settings have not been touched.  The only difference is the enabled mod - 3.6.10 versus 3.6.8

Identical settings.  First image is 3.6.10, second is the old 3.6.8.  Here's what an Argo looks like.  Again, the gamma setting in FSO is not preserved in screenshots so they're dark.

http://members.shaw.ca/jillianandryan/files/freespace/screen0004.tga

http://members.shaw.ca/jillianandryan/files/freespace/screen0005.tga

I'm going to grab a capture of an Orion now.  It's really noticeable there.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 10, 2008, 08:26:29 pm
Here's the Orion.  Again, the only change between the two screenshots is which mediavp set is in use.  First one is 3.6.10, second is 3.6.8.  Oh, and this is done with a totally new pilot, just to be sure there are no issues there.

http://members.shaw.ca/jillianandryan/files/freespace/screen0005.tga
http://members.shaw.ca/jillianandryan/files/freespace/screen0006.tga

Might I suggest one of you try disabling GLSL support with the 3.6.10 MVPs and see if you get the same issues?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on January 10, 2008, 08:36:50 pm
Stop using TGA >.<
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 10, 2008, 08:43:03 pm
Stop using TGA >.<

I'm lazy and just posting straight from my screenshots folder :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: IceFire on January 10, 2008, 08:57:48 pm
I don't think we have a high quality version of that one. If you know of one, send me a link and I'll update the VP with it. It's possible that I left one out by accident.

Note that there are a handful of cases where the music file appears to be higher quality, but it's just upsampled from the 22khz version and sounds totally identical to the old one. I don't remember the one you mentioned as being such a case though.
Got it...seems to be a few others "missing" as well but if they aren't present in high quality format then obviously thats a good reason for not including.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Sparky on January 10, 2008, 11:13:06 pm
i got a problem but i dont know if it can be considered a bug or not or if this is just some random problem with my computer. Some beams like the shivan and AAA beams do not have the charge up effect or the "energy ball", for lack of a better term, during the actual firing phase. I think they are related to the MV_advancedeffect file, but having no modding experience whatsoever i cannot say for sure. a picture just to show what i mean.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/Plasmacabbage/untitled.jpg)

DaBrain as you asked I was going to mantis it but this seems this very same issue, so I post it here although I suppose you've already found the reason.

On game startup with 3.6.9. debug I get the following errors:
  • SBeamAglow.eff from Advanced Effects doesn't have their related frames. This is the cause for those missing beam glows.
  • And also, 3.6.9. debug complains about BFRed (redefined in Advanced Effects beams2-wep.tbm) having more than 5 sections. Is this limit going to be pushed up in 3.6.10 builds?

I love the new mediavps... but I dunno how to fix this either. I get the no beam glows only for the shivans...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 11, 2008, 01:02:35 am
Now, I don't have GLSL support enabled (no shader 3 support on this vieo card) so perhaps that may be contributing to the issues, but I am having major LOD issues.  The Arcadia, Manticore, Orion, Argo... everything but the GTF fighters look like absolute garbage.

In other words - this takes it back to worse-than-retail quality if you don't have shader 3 support.  Is normal mapping entirely replacing the old high-resolution ships?

I haven't taken a look at your screenshots but I bet you are suffering ForceWare issues. It's neither mediavps nor Fsopen fault. (at least no known fault). With 169.25 or 169.21 ONLY GLSL renders fine. -no_glsl rendering is FUBAR.

Read this thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50345.0.html
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 11, 2008, 01:35:51 am
I haven't taken a look at your screenshots but I bet you are suffering ForceWare issues. It's neither mediavps nor Fsopen fault. (at least no known fault). With 169.25 or 169.21 ONLY GLSL renders fine. -no_glsl rendering is FUBAR.

Read this thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50345.0.html

That might be true if I wasn't using an ATI video card and driver =)

Interestingly, I tried Taylor's 1207 Xt build and it seems to definitely improve the 3.6.10 mvp visuals over the 1028 build (but has accompanying stability issues, being experimental... 3 crashes out of 4 attempted loadings of the Dunkerque mission).  That build allows me to launch the game without shutting off GLSL (I believe the build now does it automatically?).  There are still serious issues at distance, and in the mini-window for targeting (the models have no detail), but it's better overall.

Note that the visual downgrade occurs only with the actual models; the weapons effects, planets, backgrounds, etc are all very pretty.  The models/textures are just uglified.  EDIT:  And the thrusters are "blocky" at the edges, though I think that may have been mentioned by someone already.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 11, 2008, 01:47:34 am
Here's the side-by side JPG comparison, taken from the ship lab in roughly similar position (sorry I didn't get it closer but the lab kept crashing on me).  The 3.6.10 textures look almost "blurred" compared to the 3.6.8zeta.  I used the Orion so you can see it drastically, but the same holds true for most, if not all, ships.

Build: fs2_open_3_6_10_debug-Xt_1207.exe (occurs in the non-debug too, I was just using debug to try to track down the crashing)

Flags:  C:\StrcApps\FreeSpaceOpen\fs2_open_3_6_10_debug-Xt_1207.exe -spec -glow -env -mipmap -nomotiondebris -normal -img2dds -no_vsync -cache_bitmaps -dualscanlines -targetinfo -rearm_timer -ship_choice_3d -snd_preload -fps

System:
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33Ghz
128 MB Radeon 9500 Pro (NO SM3.0 support)
512 MB SDRAM
Windows XP
Radeon Catalyst Omega Drivers based on 7.10 series (I'm about to try the most recent release).

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 11, 2008, 02:36:49 am
And in a bizarre turn of events...

1207 build + new graphics drivers (7.12 Catalyst) = Graphics on par with or better than 3.6.8
1207 build + 7.10 catalyst = Slightly blurred, indistinct texturing
1028 Build + 7.12 = Slightly blurred, indistinct texturing
1028 Build + 7.10 = Ugliness.

And in another round of bizarrity, despite the fact that this card still does not have SM3 support, the 1028 build no longer crashes when GLSL is enabled with the 7.12 driver set.

Though I noticed that pilot files used in 1207 don't like the 1028 build either.

So.. anyone able to make some sense of this mess and explain the graphical ugliness?  Keep in mind that the 3.6.8 zetas remained pretty and distinct throughout.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on January 11, 2008, 08:11:33 am
There were a ton of changes between 1028 and 1207, including several complete rewrites in the OpenGL code, and a completely new system added to the OGL code as well.  I'm assuming that there are driver bugs at work there, and some of the code changes may have just gotten around them, or made them worse (as some other people have already reported).

GLSL is automatically disabled if it's not supported, but it also checks to see if you have a SM3.0 compatible card now before even trying to get used.  If it doesn't think you can do SM3 then it just skips GLSL altogether.

Pilots should be the same between the builds though.  However, ARSPR has already sent me a test case that appears to mess up pilots, so it's on my todo list of things to check out before I release the next build.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Darklord42 on January 11, 2008, 10:36:29 am
Here's the side-by side JPG comparison, taken from the ship lab in roughly similar position (sorry I didn't get it closer but the lab kept crashing on me).  The 3.6.10 textures look almost "blurred" compared to the 3.6.8zeta.  I used the Orion so you can see it drastically, but the same holds true for most, if not all, ships.

Build: fs2_open_3_6_10_debug-Xt_1207.exe (occurs in the non-debug too, I was just using debug to try to track down the crashing)

Flags:  C:\StrcApps\FreeSpaceOpen\fs2_open_3_6_10_debug-Xt_1207.exe -spec -glow -env -mipmap -nomotiondebris -normal -img2dds -no_vsync -cache_bitmaps -dualscanlines -targetinfo -rearm_timer -ship_choice_3d -snd_preload -fps

System:
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33Ghz
128 MB Radeon 9500 Pro (NO SM3.0 support)
512 MB SDRAM
Windows XP
Radeon Catalyst Omega Drivers based on 7.10 series (I'm about to try the most recent release).


Ive mostly noticed that too and I'm using a Nvidia card.  Thing is if you look at the Orion even closer, then the normal maps appear and suddenly it looks fine.  Just not at the distance that the tech room displays.  The larger the ship the larger the distance.


Also I noticed that the Perseus Lod 2 and Lod 3 were reversed,  not that it matters much, but you may want to fix that
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 11, 2008, 01:04:38 pm
Once I follow all of the installation instructions, and select the new 'MediaVP' folder as a mod, I need to throw a -adveffects into my command line in order to get all the bells and whistles, correct?  I'm installing right now, and I can't wait to see all the changes!!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 11, 2008, 01:11:07 pm
.pof files -- there were two posted in this thread, one for a particular capital ship and one for a cargo container -- what do i do with the .pof file after I've downloaded it?  Where does it go?

Replaceretailstars.vp -- where does that go?  Do I just drop it in the new 'MediaVP' folder, and does it require a command line flag to be activated?

last question -- Orion Nameplate missions -- where do those .fs2 files go, and do they require any sort of command line flag?

Sorry for so many questions, just want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 11, 2008, 01:15:03 pm
Once I follow all of the installation instructions, and select the new 'MediaVP' folder as a mod, I need to throw a -adveffects into my command line in order to get all the bells and whistles, correct?  I'm installing right now, and I can't wait to see all the changes!!
...No? Try -normal and -height.

.pof files -- there were two posted in this thread, one for a particular capital ship and one for a cargo container -- what do i do with the .pof file after I've downloaded it?  Where does it go?

Replaceretailstars.vp -- where does that go?  Do I just drop it in the new 'MediaVP' folder, and does it require a command line flag to be activated?

last question -- Orion Nameplate missions -- where do those .fs2 files go, and do they require any sort of command line flag?

Sorry for so many questions, just want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly.
Pofs to \mediavps\data\models. Vps to \mediavps\. fs2s to \mediavps\data\missions.

No weird extra command line flags required.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 11, 2008, 01:34:24 pm
Once I follow all of the installation instructions, and select the new 'MediaVP' folder as a mod, I need to throw a -adveffects into my command line in order to get all the bells and whistles, correct?  I'm installing right now, and I can't wait to see all the changes!!
...No? Try -normal and -height.


Ah, ok, I was already doing this.  Just double checking.  Also, thanks for the info re: the pofs and the mission files.

Time to see how it looks/what the fps is.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 11, 2008, 03:07:59 pm
There were a ton of changes between 1028 and 1207, including several complete rewrites in the OpenGL code, and a completely new system added to the OGL code as well.  I'm assuming that there are driver bugs at work there, and some of the code changes may have just gotten around them, or made them worse (as some other people have already reported).

Well, without GLSL the newer build appears to be better.  That said, I also tinkered around with the 7.11 Catalyst drivers and it restored the Orion in 1207 to that comparative to the 1028 build - that is, blurry crap.  Without normal mpping we appear to get some funky detail visual issues, but I've no idea why if the textures included are all the same as the earlier mediaVPs plus the newer ones - if anything, shouldn't it revert to just using the original textures if normal and height mapping isn't present?

Quote
GLSL is automatically disabled if it's not supported, but it also checks to see if you have a SM3.0 compatible card now before even trying to get used.  If it doesn't think you can do SM3 then it just skips GLSL altogether.

OK, that explains why I don't need the flag in 1207.  It doesn't explain by 1028 now launches with the newer driver set.  That must have been a bug in the old 7.10 set.

Quote
Pilots should be the same between the builds though.  However, ARSPR has already sent me a test case that appears to mess up pilots, so it's on my todo list of things to check out before I release the next build.

If I try to run 1028 with a pilot that has been used in 1207, when I click Select the game just hangs with the select button highlighted (the process starts eating 100% CPU).  It doesn't crash - I have to force a quit through the task manager processes.  Something isn't liking going back to the older build.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 11, 2008, 03:18:18 pm
Just installed the new updates and checked it all out, so far, so good -- everything looks amazing, Fps decent (staying over 30 in traffic).  Kudos!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on January 11, 2008, 08:33:10 pm
here are the replaceretailstars.vp suns in dds.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 11, 2008, 09:02:46 pm
here are the replaceretailstars.vp suns in dds.


If I may say, I don't see any reason to use DDS format for the star bitmaps. Quite the opposite I can think at leat two reasons why not to do so.

First reason is that the stars have a lot of gradients in them instead of sharp, distinguishable features like model textures. DDS does not do well with gradients, it adds a lot of artefacting and looks generally sucky in many cases. Example further as comparision image pair.

Second reason is that the advantages of DDS don't really show themselves in sun bitmaps.

The advantages of DDS format are mainly reduced memory signature and ready mipmaps for the GPU to use. These are very useful features when there are a lot of textures to be rendered either on models or effects, on varying distances. However, when you consider that there are only perhaps two, three or on some rare occasions couple more sun bitmaps in a mission, and all of them are basically set on static distance, both of these advantages become redundant. Not to mention that the star bitmaps (well, those at least) are only 512x512 sized. That's only fourth of a 1024x1024 resolution texture, which many ships use. DDS compression cuts the ship texture memory use to about 1/4th, which means that one 512x512 star bitmap in TGA takes about as much GPU resources as one 1024x1024 ship texture in DDS.

There are many ship textures used in a typical FS2_Open mission. And I do not remember seeing many missions that use more than two or three suns, so I'd say trying to reduce the GPU memory load by compressing sun bitmaps is more waste of quality than win in performance.

I do not think having the sun bitmaps as TGA's will have measurable effect on performance even on older computers. I could be wrong though, so I'd appreciate if someone could either confirm or dispute these arguments, but if it is as I suspect, the disadvantages of DDS are in this case more prominent than the advantages. Thus I would prefer the stars to be distributed in TGA format.

And as you can observe, the compression does bad things to gradients.

Uncompressed TGA (saved as PNG for obvious reasons):

(http://i16.tinypic.com/8gh2qtf.png)

Same image compressed to DDS (probably DXT1c) and saved as *.PNG for same obvious reasons):

(http://i7.tinypic.com/8g6ew75.png)

...I rest my case. And remember that if the stars are ever upscaled by mission background designer, the DDS compression artefacts just grow more apparent. :blah:

I appreciate Topgun's effort, though; this just happens to be one of the worst uses for DDS format I can think of. ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on January 11, 2008, 09:13:11 pm
all that is true. but for people who use img2dds (like me), the result is both better looking and (i think) less resource intense.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 11, 2008, 09:38:51 pm
all that is true. but for people who use img2dds (like me), the result is both better looking and (i think) less resource intense.

Fair enough, let's consider the possibilities then...

Does the -img2dds cmdline argument make the game prefer DDS textures if both DDS and TGA are present in the files? I know that normally the TGA file overrides DDS, but in case of "compress uncompressed files" being enabled, is the engine smart enough to detect that there actually IS a compressed file available and use it instead of preferring the TGA, then compressing that (quite unnecessarily) and using the end result?

I guess with this logic it could be beneficial to make -img2dds cmdline argument reverse the TGA/DDS priority order so that DDS textures would be used as a preference when enabled, and when -img2dds is not enabled the TGA's would override the DDS files, like at the moment they do. I'm not sure if this is already the case, but it would seem sensible to me to make it so if it isn't already... :nervous:

If that could work, then it would be possible to include both DDS and TGA star bitmaps in the VP: Those who don't use -img2dds would automatically use the TGA version, and the -img2dds users would benefit from having the actial DDS files (which apparently despite the atrocious compression artefacts are better than the result from the compression made by FS2_Open, if I interpret Topgun's post correctly).


Apart from this I would still suggest using the TGA ones for the mediaVP's, or not to use them at all, cause it doesn't really serve the mediaVP's purpose to have bad-looking effects in them, and those DDS suns definitely classify as such in my books.

Of course, I would prefer all light effects to be in TGA format, like the subspace effect, thruster plumes, beams and (to lesser extent) other weapons fire and explosion frames. I really prefer a drop of few frames per second to pixelated smooth gradient effects in otherwise kick-ass effects. :rolleyes:

However, I understand that the savage olden computers are not so englightened as mine, and thus their users cannot enjoy the comfort, and enlightenment of true uncompressed light effects... so I understand that compromizes must be made. :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on January 11, 2008, 09:52:55 pm
That is sort of the idea. Take a look at LS nebulas. There is compressed DDS version in effects vp and uncompressed DDS version in adveffecs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on January 11, 2008, 09:55:14 pm
I thought 3.610 just used dds first, if there was no dds then it would convert tga to dds. am I right?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 12, 2008, 10:29:02 am
How do you load the replaceretailstars.vp?  just place it in the MediaVP folder and do nothing else?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on January 12, 2008, 10:32:07 am
yes, but if it still doesn't work, name it aaa-replaceretailstars.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 12, 2008, 10:34:22 am
Yeah, or 00-stars.vp or something like that. The vp file hierarchy follows the alphabets so replaceretailstars.vp is lower in hierarchy than mv---.vp files and is therefore not used. Putting a's or 0's at the beginning of the file name makes it to be read first, before the mv files.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: fsphiladelphia on January 12, 2008, 10:55:23 am
sweet.  thanks for the tips.  sometimes when it comes to handling all the files i feel like a real moron.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on January 12, 2008, 06:58:20 pm
here are the stars in u888 dds.
PS: it is also vp'ed

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LNJ84GKI   
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on January 13, 2008, 05:04:47 pm
More LOD issues:

I just tried running The Sicilian Defense.

Essentially, capship LODS (especially in the targeting window in the lower left) are dropping far too soon (e.g. at low distances it's downgrading the models significantly).  The Orion and Deimos both look like large blocks in the targeting window at distances of as little as 2000 meters.  In the old MVPS, you could go out 5 or 6 thousand without a really noticeable drop.

Did LODs get re-worked in this latest set?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Tantalus53 on January 15, 2008, 03:28:17 pm
Question:

Are the map names gonna stay like this for the Final release of the Media VP's, cause as stated before, if im not mistaken, we have to go about changing the map names of the older ship mods out there.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 15, 2008, 03:38:29 pm
Question:

Are the map names gonna stay like this for the Final release of the Media VP's, cause as stated before, if im not mistaken, we have to go about changing the map names of the older ship mods out there.


I would think that the generic retail star names will stay in the stars.tbl, to ensure backwards compatibility for all the missions using them, but likely the actual files will be upgraded to be more shiny.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on January 17, 2008, 01:07:52 am
Question:

Are the map names gonna stay like this for the Final release of the Media VP's, cause as stated before, if im not mistaken, we have to go about changing the map names of the older ship mods out there.
Yes the textures has been de-LODded so no more a, b, c or d textures. Textures mipmaps are used instead. But this enhancement has the side effect you point.

So if you want to use old textures, don't delete actual mv_textures.vp and you've got it. Or better: unpack it, delete all possible tbms in it, (I haven't checked), and repackit.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.8 Zeta
Post by: Zacam on January 23, 2008, 11:05:48 pm
Fixed the Cargo container. The LOD (POF needs 5) error was cause by the fact that the POF has 5 LODs but the Retail TBL file only has 4 Detail distance values set.

So, either delete one LOD from model, or create tbm. I created a TBM.

I also set actual inertia values close to cargo06 so there will be no "model has null moment of inertia" warning in debugs.

Inside 7z is data.zip which is the pof and tbm in sub-folders and a 00-Cargo03.vp. Pick whichever of the two you want to use.

00-Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/00-Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 7F76395ED08A196D2F3E345E084BF954
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.8 Zeta
Post by: ARSPR on January 24, 2008, 01:56:32 am
Fixed the Cargo container. The LOD (POF needs 5) error was cause by the fact that the POF has 5 LODs but the Retail TBL file only has 4 Detail distance values set.

So, either delete one LOD from model, or create tbm. I created a TBM.

I also set actual inertia values close to cargo06 so there will be no "model has null moment of inertia" warning in debugs.

Inside 7z is data.zip which is the pof and tbm in sub-folders and a 00-Cargo03.vp. Pick whichever of the two you want to use.

00-Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/00-Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 7F76395ED08A196D2F3E345E084BF954

Please upload this info and related files in Mantis too. (Mantis is the bug-tracking central).

Nevertheless if you have edited the model to fix inertia problem, then the tbn AND the model are needed (although due to different reasons).

Great job  :yes:

EDITED ----

 :wtf:

 :eek:

 :eek2:

Zacam, you and I are fully stupid.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have you notice WHICH thread is this?

It's 3.6.8. not 3.6.10...

Please copy the info to the right thread

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.8 Zeta
Post by: Zacam on January 24, 2008, 08:58:08 pm
Oh holy cra....*sighs*
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 24, 2008, 08:59:00 pm
Fixed the Cargo container. The LOD (POF needs 5) error was cause by the fact that the POF has 5 LODs but the Retail TBL file only has 4 Detail distance values set.

So, either delete one LOD from model, or create tbm. I created a TBM.

I also set actual inertia values close to cargo06 so there will be no "model has null moment of inertia" warning in debugs.

Inside 7z is data.zip which is the pof and tbm in sub-folders and a 00-Cargo03.vp. Pick whichever of the two you want to use.

00-Cargo03.7z (http://zacam.ueuo.com/scp/00-Cargo03.7z)
MD5: 7F76395ED08A196D2F3E345E084BF954

Will attach to mantis as well, thank's ARSPR.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: karajorma on January 25, 2008, 10:13:58 am
Fixed.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: WMCoolmon on January 27, 2008, 03:54:21 am
DaBrain, I'm unpacking all vps. While doing it with WCM's Maja, mv_music has given me the next warning/error:
Code: [Select]
Note: Imported VP lacked ending backdirs. This does not affect importing in any way.I don't know if it can cause any ingame trouble at all (I just don't understand what the hell Maja is complaining about).

Basically what it says. Directory structure is determined like HTML, so
<data>
   fs2open_pxo.cfg
   <tables>
      ships.tbl
   </tables>
</data>

Would be one way to represent the data in a VP file. If that error occurs, it means that the red entries weren't present. But since there aren't any more entries after 'ships.tbl' anyway, it doesn't really matter (FS2 doesn't care either). Some VP programs (VPCS, IIRC) leave off the ending entries by default, Maja doesn't.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: freespaceking on January 27, 2008, 11:09:06 am
I can't get the normal maps to work i have a  NVIDIA GeForce Go 7600 GT.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 27, 2008, 12:37:44 pm

Basically what it says. Directory structure is determined like HTML, so
<data>
   fs2open_pxo.cfg
   <tables>
      ships.tbl
   </tables>
</data>

Would be one way to represent the data in a VP file. If that error occurs, it means that the red entries weren't present. But since there aren't any more entries after 'ships.tbl' anyway, it doesn't really matter (FS2 doesn't care either). Some VP programs (VPCS, IIRC) leave off the ending entries by default, Maja doesn't.

Wow. Handy information to know. And yes, VPCS does make that error occur. VPMage (obviously) does not, but it's nowhere near as easy and useful to use as Maja. (Damn nice app there!)

Too bad we don't have an all-in-one launcher tool bar for accessing this things. Kinda like the Elder Scrolls Construction Kit, only more usefull.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Tinman on January 27, 2008, 02:24:26 pm
I can't get the normal maps to work i have a  NVIDIA GeForce Go 7600 GT.

you have the recent xt-build 1207 an the shader.vp?

see
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50258.msg1038432.html#msg1038432 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50258.msg1038432.html#msg1038432)


Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: freespaceking on January 27, 2008, 04:05:58 pm
yhea i have both.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on January 28, 2008, 05:53:31 pm
Yeah the HTL Ravana is known to have collision detection problems.  I downloaded one from somewhere that has better, but not perfect, collision detection.  But the problem just has to be fixed once and for all.  I find the best solution to be Open with PCS2 —> Purge BSP Cache —> Save POF.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 28, 2008, 06:09:57 pm
Yay I'm being quoted cross-thread.  I feel slightly important.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 29, 2008, 05:11:34 pm
so am i ever going to get some kind of response about lightspeed's nebula
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on January 29, 2008, 11:47:38 pm
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51396.msg1040245.html#msg1040245

You mean the one asked there? So far as I'm aware, 3.6.10 (like 3.6.8) will sport the LS Nebula along with the stellar enhancements found here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45736.0.html
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on January 30, 2008, 06:22:42 am
3.6.10 is going to have full LS nebula enhanched missions. As of now the only reason why the LS nebs arent showing when playing without adveffects is that the table that activates the LS nebs is in adv effects vp though the lower quality effects are in effects vp. Does this answer the question?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Flaser on January 30, 2008, 02:38:33 pm
EDIT: Never mind, was already mentioned a couple of posts above.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Delta_07 on January 30, 2008, 05:56:14 pm
I don't know if this was asked before, but will the current HTL models be updated with the new cockipts (like the one in the loki and zeus)?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on January 30, 2008, 07:39:23 pm
I don't know if this was asked before, but will the current HTL models be updated with the new cockipts (like the one in the loki and zeus)?
We'll actually get a proper cockpit system soonish, which will allow any fighter to use a specific separate model as the cockpit. This means we won't actually have to build these high detail cockpits into HTL ships anymore, and at that point I'll be able to remove the then redundant ones I built into the Loki and Herc. :)

This won't happen by the 3.6.10 set though I'm afraid.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: asyikarea51 on January 31, 2008, 12:11:30 am
This means we won't actually have to build these high detail cockpits into HTL ships anymore, and at that point I'll be able to remove the then redundant ones I built into the Loki and Herc. :)

Err... one question, the external cockpits (i.e. the ones that we see in the Lab or in the F3 viewer) will remain there... right? :nervous: :shaking:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on January 31, 2008, 12:13:26 am
Yeah they're talking about virtual cockpits, not the ones you see in other fighters.  Those will stay I'm sure.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on January 31, 2008, 11:13:42 am
3.6.10 is going to have full LS nebula enhanched missions. As of now the only reason why the LS nebs arent showing when playing without adveffects is that the table that activates the LS nebs is in adv effects vp though the lower quality effects are in effects vp. Does this answer the question?

i have the Adv effects vp and was playing with non-LS
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on January 31, 2008, 04:45:48 pm
Err... one question, the external cockpits (i.e. the ones that we see in the Lab or in the F3 viewer) will remain there... right? :nervous: :shaking:
Yeah, as chief says - the external ones will remain. I built the loki and zeus with two though - one low poly external one, and one high poly internal one. Once the cockpit system is in place there will be no need for the high poly internal one.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Nx on February 01, 2008, 03:47:53 am
The AAA is definitely missing the orb.

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/460/screen0526nv9.jpg)

And the particles seem to trail behind the emitter. Is that mediavps or SCP?


I know I'm replying to a month-old post, but I just noticed this now. Please don't use my Iceni model to test mediavp effects or scp features for bugs. That error is probably caused by incorrect turret positions in the pof. Even if it's not, and it is a bug in the mediavps, please reproduce it with a finished ship. If you can't (i.e. it's a bug in the Iceni pof), please do post it here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,32427.0.html). Thank you.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Nx on February 03, 2008, 02:07:50 pm
No because I notice that bug in Shivan warships too. Must be a problem with something else. Probably the effects themselves since I switched back to using models from 3.6.9 and kept the effects for 3.6.10 and the bug is still present.

The wrong position of the particle effects was a bug in the Iceni pof. I thought the glow was inside the model too, but it's actually a mediavp bug
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Delta_07 on February 03, 2008, 02:24:42 pm
Speaking about shivan ships, there are some problems with the ravana, it's maps are missing ( it has the retail fs2 maps and no shine effects ), it's very hard to destroy it's main cannons ( I can only hit them when facing them ), and it's engines are misplaced.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on February 03, 2008, 02:27:34 pm
The collision detection and engine problems are known issues with the POF.  There was a whole thread about why not to use the 3DS Max POF exporter, specifically regarding the HTL Ravana.  Someone just has to fix these problems.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on February 03, 2008, 07:59:29 pm
the aten is full of holes two.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on February 03, 2008, 08:18:21 pm
I would suggest testing these models with the newest PCS2 RC2d build, it seems to have the collision issues fixed.  If not I'm sure Kaz would like to know anyway.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 03, 2008, 11:01:41 pm
the aten is full of holes two.

Imagine my surprise when I fired a Helios at the Aten and expecting it to go up, instead watching it go through the engine block. :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on February 04, 2008, 11:00:33 am
I flue inside an aten to hide from some aaa :lol:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 04, 2008, 11:18:04 am
Looking at the Aten i can tell you it was created using the Max exporter.

just open it with PCS2 RC2D and save it.. should have collision detection then
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on February 04, 2008, 12:20:06 pm
Aren't there other *issues* with models generated by that exporter?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 04, 2008, 12:49:54 pm
yes... big ones... sometimes PCS2 can fix them

and WTF are all these .tsb's files in mv_assets?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 04, 2008, 04:26:01 pm
just open it with PCS2 RC2D and save it.. should have collision detection then
Oh I think you'll like the new version better. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Delta_07 on February 04, 2008, 07:56:58 pm
Noticed another "holey" ship, the apollo. You soot it at the back and the shot passes by the ship. Wonder what happens to the pilot... :lol:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 04, 2008, 10:34:20 pm
Noticed another "holey" ship, the apollo. You soot it at the back and the shot passes by the ship. Wonder what happens to the pilot... :lol:
Where do you get the Apollo to show its textures?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on February 05, 2008, 01:28:36 am
and WTF are all these .tsb's files in mv_assets?

It's new model cache data needed because normal maps. Now each pof generates one ibx and one tsb.

Ask Taylor the full technical explanation.



OTOH PLEASE GUYS IF YOU DETECT A "HOLEY" MODEL OR ANY OTHER BUG, MANTIS IT. IF YOU FIX IT (THROUGH PCS2 OR WHATEVER), UPLOAD THE MODEL. (But if you fix it through PCS2 please wait till the FINAL release is out as Kazan asks in this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51923.0.html)).

(Won't you expect DaBrain to dig THROUGH all the thread looking for comments about bugs? Do you?)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 05, 2008, 02:30:53 am
From FSU Internal:

Quote
List of broken ships:

Aten (Nearly finished the rebuild)
Ravana (Needs serious ghost busting)
Apollo (Not looked into this yet, but it's reported in the main forum thread that it's ghosting)
Hecate Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Faustus Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Sobek Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Dis Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
SAC3 Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Zephyrus Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list. MASSIVE transparency errors as well.



List of possibly broken ships: (ie, stuff that was converted with the pof exporter. Most I think are fine, but I'll check them out.)

Ursa
Pegassus (Slight ghosting on the tip of the nose but otherwise ok)
Amazon
Satis
Anuket
Mara
Ares
Erinyes
Perseus
Mjolnir
Serapis
Medusa



List of incomplete HTL ships that *might* make it into this MVP set:

Iceni (Needs final conversion, lods and debris. Collision wise it's stable except for the big turrets for some bizzare reason)
Meson Bomb (Needs reconversion, lods...but probably not debris. Thoughts?)
Horus (Needs final conversion, lods and debris)
Valkyrie (Needs textures finished, then final conversion lods and debris)
Argo (I got no idea if it's even finished. :\ )

First round of ramming tests done. Most of them are solid.
Second and third round of tests done. Most of the second batch were NOT solid this time. :\

Does anyone have any more info on this stuff?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 05, 2008, 10:01:27 am
Stratcomm fixed the Ravana. I bashed and shot the thing myself, there's only a few minor problems with "depressions" in the hull. I only found one (which was a good 2 months later :nervous: ), but I think it's fine.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on February 05, 2008, 10:16:52 am
Is that fix in the 3.6.10 betavps?

EDIT: Because I have seen shots going through its hull as if it weren't even there.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 05, 2008, 10:53:00 am
I don't know. Did the shots do any damage right after they went through the hull?

Nope, apparently it's not.

http://hlpstrat.googlepages.com/capital2s-01.pof

Fixed Ravana.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 05, 2008, 05:48:16 pm
From FSU Internal:

Quote
List of broken ships:

Aten (Nearly finished the rebuild)
Ravana (Needs serious ghost busting)
Apollo (Not looked into this yet, but it's reported in the main forum thread that it's ghosting)
Hecate Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Faustus Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Sobek Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Dis Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
SAC3 Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list.
Zephyrus Confirmed collision mesh errors. Moved to problem ships list. MASSIVE transparency errors as well.



List of possibly broken ships: (ie, stuff that was converted with the pof exporter. Most I think are fine, but I'll check them out.)

Ursa
Pegassus (Slight ghosting on the tip of the nose but otherwise ok)
Amazon
Satis
Anuket
Mara
Ares
Erinyes
Perseus
Mjolnir
Serapis
Medusa



List of incomplete HTL ships that *might* make it into this MVP set:

Iceni (Needs final conversion, lods and debris. Collision wise it's stable except for the big turrets for some bizzare reason)
Meson Bomb (Needs reconversion, lods...but probably not debris. Thoughts?)
Horus (Needs final conversion, lods and debris)
Valkyrie (Needs textures finished, then final conversion lods and debris)
Argo (I got no idea if it's even finished. :\ )

First round of ramming tests done. Most of them are solid.
Second and third round of tests done. Most of the second batch were NOT solid this time. :\

Does anyone have any more info on this stuff?

IIRC Herra Tohtori's complete hi-res Valkyrie textures were posted in a thread in the FSU forum. If not, a copy of them is included in my Twist of Fate demo (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52021.0.html). If you get them from the TOF demo, please credit Herra Tohtori, not me.

Also, Meson Bomb needs no debris. It's a bomb, and the explosion shockwave would certainly annihilate any remaining debris.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 05, 2008, 06:31:46 pm
I'll check up on the Ravana when I get home - but if it's as you say it will still need a reconversion. Any hole at all in a capship is a big problem. ;)

The Valkyrie textures aren't a problem - I'm redrawing them completely for the HTL version. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 05, 2008, 07:21:58 pm
The Valkyrie textures aren't a problem - I'm redrawing them completely for the HTL version. :)

Hooray, no more paper Valkyrie! :lol:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 05, 2008, 08:34:16 pm
I'll check up on the Ravana when I get home - but if it's as you say it will still need a reconversion. Any hole at all in a capship is a big problem. ;)

The Valkyrie textures aren't a problem - I'm redrawing them completely for the HTL version. :)

Does this HTL Valkyrie use the pieces from the HTL Uglies?

(I'd love a matching GTF Angel, but it would probably never happen)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 05, 2008, 10:45:10 pm
Excellent - Stratcomms version appears to work fine. :D

Does this HTL Valkyrie use the pieces from the HTL Uglies?

(I'd love a matching GTF Angel, but it would probably never happen)
Yes and possibly - an angel won't happen any time soon though.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on February 06, 2008, 11:39:11 am
The ''VAsSingleEngine'' texture for the Typhon is missing.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Nx on February 07, 2008, 04:28:33 am

Iceni (Needs final conversion, lods and debris. Collision wise it's stable except for the big turrets for some bizzare reason)

I have no idea why only those turrets have problems. The only difference between the small multiparts and the big multiparts is that the big ones don't have the bottom polygons and are not STL correct. But the octagonals, which don't have those polygons either, are also solid, and the big multiparts' barrels are STL correct and they aren't solid. In case I wasn't clear enough (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Nx.devnull/Iceni/photo#5164181385583692706)
I'll see if making the big multiparts STL correct helps, but I doubt it. So unless someone with more knowledge of the engine's collision detection code figures this one out, I can't fix it.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 07, 2008, 05:24:09 am
A reconversion should take care of that if just a resave in PCS2 doesn't - the lack of back faces isn't a problem for collision detection as long as the face normals are pointed the right way.

Anyway, if you want I can complete the Iceni in terms of lods, debris and POF data? Or do you want to do it yourself? :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Slime on February 07, 2008, 06:27:43 am
Whoa, nice job with the MVPs. Ever since I bought a widescreen monitor I've left the scene for a while (for obvious reasons...), but with this release I forced myself to use a 4:3 with full anistrophic. It's not that much worse, especially with these effects. The only problems I've encountered are the already-reported missing beamglows (not that big of a deal, using old ones for now) and slight pauses when loading new effects with a 8800 GT (I've had this a few times earlier, depends on the build it seems). I've already fallen in love with the shivan shield effects...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 07, 2008, 09:34:01 am
btw what is with the engine glows being missing?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on February 07, 2008, 09:58:05 am
btw what is with the engine glows being missing?
Are you using latest Taylor's XT builds?

If the answer is yes, you are seeing a bug. (But in F3 lab you DO see the thrusters...)

This bug seems triggered by the
Code: [Select]
$ThrustAnims:
+Pri_Normal:            <none>
+Pri_Afterburn:         <none>
entries in mv_effects-sdf.tbm which just should disable the original polied thrusters. But the game doesn't like <none> because of some reason.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Slime on February 07, 2008, 10:11:58 am
By the way, what's the filename for the blue anti-fighter beamglow (for terrans and vasudans)? As I said, I'm overriding the ones not working with older versions until DaBrain or someone gets a fix going.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on February 07, 2008, 10:50:35 am
As of now there are no plans for fixes or patches for the beta release. Until we get the stuff ready you can either make your own fixes (which we most likely wont be using in the final release), or move back to earlier set of mediavp files.

Are you using latest Taylor's XT builds?
XT builds are experimental and problems with them are not our fault and therefore as for now there is no intention to fix this.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on February 07, 2008, 11:10:38 am
Are you using latest Taylor's XT builds?
XT builds are experimental and problems with them are not our fault and therefore as for now there is no intention to fix this.

 :confused:

 :wtf:

 :eek2:

I think you haven't got me right.

I KNOW that Xt builds are experimental, I know there's no data bug and I've told Taylor about this issue sometime ago... I'm neither complaining in any way about bugs in experimental builds (or even regular builds), nor asking for an immediate fix. I just point out (or mantis) the bugs I see and I wait till the coders fix them. I never demand a fix.

But as Taylor is likely to commit his code enhancements sooner or later, he need testers and he needs to know what happens with his builds.

And also XT builds are pretty extended, mainly because of their normal mapping support, so some people may suffer these bugs too. Of course, they should know that, when they use these builds, they are likely to have more troubles than usually. But nevertheless they are free to ask about any possible weird behaviour they see.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on February 07, 2008, 01:02:12 pm
Ah... Well... Then i'm sorry. And i didn't even mean that as a direct answer to you but more as a generic answer.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: G0atmaster on February 08, 2008, 02:12:53 pm
So will we be seeing these in Turey's installer anytime soon? Or are they already there?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 08, 2008, 02:15:44 pm
So will we be seeing these in Turey's installer anytime soon? Or are they already there?
Once these and the 3.6.10 build are both finals.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 09, 2008, 09:34:23 am
btw what is with the engine glows being missing?
Are you using latest Taylor's XT builds?

If the answer is yes, you are seeing a bug. (But in F3 lab you DO see the thrusters...)

This bug seems triggered by the
Code: [Select]
$ThrustAnims:
+Pri_Normal:            <none>
+Pri_Afterburn:         <none>
entries in mv_effects-sdf.tbm which just should disable the original polied thrusters. But the game doesn't like <none> because of some reason.

i dunno if i would call that a bug.. more like the tables are not setup very clever
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on February 09, 2008, 12:10:37 pm
i dunno if i would call that a bug.. more like the tables are not setup very clever
Hmm... how exactly would you do it?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ARSPR on February 09, 2008, 12:34:44 pm
i dunno if i would call that a bug.. more like the tables are not setup very clever
No, Kazan, it's a bug for sure. I just copied part of mv_effects-sdf.tbm which should work flawlessly like it does with fsopen 3.6.9. The table syntax is OK. It's something inside the build. The <none> word screws up the in-game thrusters but not F3 ones. :confused: :confused:

(OTOH this is going offtopic...)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 11, 2008, 11:11:08 pm
<none> for a thruster glow means no thruster glow - that's not an engine bug, that's the engine working as intended AFAIK (or was <none> there supposed to fall back to species default and i didn't know?)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on February 12, 2008, 12:53:01 am
The '<none>' in that particular field prevents the rendering of the modeled thruster cone animation. So it should still render the three remaining glows.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 12, 2008, 05:02:39 pm
ah.. then the flag is flipped because i'm getting cones but not glows :D

oh.. all ships with shields should be opened+saved with PCS 2.0.1 to get SLDC trees
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Turambar on February 15, 2008, 02:27:11 pm
will the fun tidbits from the Stellar Enhancements thread be in here?

it is nice to see flares on stars and missiles, and if they are kept low-key, i think they could be used well on other things too, like engines and even powerful weapons (maybe making capship glob turrets seem slightly more threatening).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Darklord42 on February 15, 2008, 08:36:45 pm
Engine light flares, now that would be cool.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on February 17, 2008, 08:58:28 am
will the fun tidbits from the Stellar Enhancements thread be in here?

Yes they will.  Hopefully M87 will return to us again so that I may also include them in FS1 and other prominent campaigns that already use Lightspeed's nebulae.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Titan on February 19, 2008, 01:48:52 pm
is the german mirror still the english mediavps?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 19, 2008, 01:50:57 pm
 :lol: No, you'll get German graphics if you download from that mirror.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: feltoar on February 22, 2008, 02:25:21 am
This might be a dumb question, but are the links on the first page still to the absolute latest public releases for the betas?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 22, 2008, 03:14:39 am
 :nervous: Yes?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on February 22, 2008, 08:10:09 pm
My GPU is only SM2.0, and I'm pretty sure I don't have OGL2.0, what will happen if I try to run normal maps etc?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 22, 2008, 10:39:31 pm
You won't get them. :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: feltoar on February 22, 2008, 10:48:32 pm
I noticed jump nodes are going over the top of ships and the Sathanas front beam cannons dont do the circle clare thing when they fire. Are these documented (ie should I bother reporting them)?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on February 22, 2008, 10:55:01 pm
OK, well I finally got normal maps working with one of taylor's builds, but framerates are now unplayably slow.  Does that mean I have to dump AdvancedEffects?  :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 22, 2008, 11:46:39 pm
I noticed jump nodes are going over the top of ships and the Sathanas front beam cannons dont do the circle clare thing when they fire. Are these documented (ie should I bother reporting them)?

They're known bugs with the 3.6.10 betas. They'll be fixed in the final.

OK, well I finally got normal maps working with one of taylor's builds, but framerates are now unplayably slow.  Does that mean I have to dump AdvancedEffects?  :(

What's your system specs?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on February 22, 2008, 11:49:19 pm
OK, well I finally got normal maps working with one of taylor's builds, but framerates are now unplayably slow.  Does that mean I have to dump AdvancedEffects?  :(

What's your system specs?
[/quote]

MacBook Pro
OSX 10.5.2
Core 2 Duo @ 2.4ghz
2GB ram
GeForce 8600M GT w/ 256mb
1440x900 display
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 22, 2008, 11:52:21 pm
Well... It could be that you have a mobile version of the 8600, or taylor's build has some FPS issues. What build of his are you running?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on February 22, 2008, 11:53:42 pm
Well... It could be that you have a mobile version of the 8600, or taylor's build has some FPS issues. What build of his are you running?

the XT1208 one.  I have to run it in window mode, if it matters.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 23, 2008, 12:21:38 am
OK, well I finally got normal maps working with one of taylor's builds, but framerates are now unplayably slow.  Does that mean I have to dump AdvancedEffects?  :(
You don't have to do anything, but you can always give it a shot. If framerates improve, the logical presumption is that you shouldn't have adveffects.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on February 23, 2008, 12:48:28 am
OK, well I finally got normal maps working with one of taylor's builds, but framerates are now unplayably slow.  Does that mean I have to dump AdvancedEffects?  :(
You don't have to do anything, but you can always give it a shot. If framerates improve, the logical presumption is that you shouldn't have adveffects.

Thanks for the advice.  I tried it sans AdvEffects and low and behold ... no performance improvement!  I get to keep AdvancedEffects! Yay!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Kazan on February 23, 2008, 09:12:31 am
My GPU is only SM2.0, and I'm pretty sure I don't have OGL2.0, what will happen if I try to run normal maps etc?

if it's SM2 you have OGL2
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on February 23, 2008, 09:39:17 am
My GPU is only SM2.0, and I'm pretty sure I don't have OGL2.0, what will happen if I try to run normal maps etc?

if it's SM2 you have OGL2
Then what will happen when I try to run Normal maps?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Koth on February 23, 2008, 10:10:27 am
Nothing. The build will only use normal maps if it detects a SM 3.0 compliant graphics card.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 23, 2008, 10:29:22 am
Hey! Cole! Yeah! Remember this post?

You won't get them. :P

I answer your question and you completely ignore me. :blah:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on February 23, 2008, 12:49:40 pm
I read that, I prefer to hear from someone sensible. (j/k)

I thought that since it was OGL2.0 compatible it may work.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ShivanSpS on February 23, 2008, 01:53:43 pm
When a 6800 Ultra starts to be short to play with adveffects is the moment to say WOOW.

But, mostly i get slowdowns when im too close to a ship, mostly engine glows and fire.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 23, 2008, 02:03:06 pm
I read that, I prefer to hear from someone sensible. (j/k)

Grow up. :blah:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on February 23, 2008, 02:08:53 pm
(j/k) = JOKE.

Grow up. :blah:
And you tell me to grow up... :doubt: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on February 23, 2008, 03:04:58 pm
I know you were joking, but that stuff is getting really tiresome.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on February 24, 2008, 10:59:13 am
both of you, grow up. :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Polpolion on February 26, 2008, 09:26:43 pm
0wned.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on March 01, 2008, 04:09:56 pm
I think the HTL Ravana needs a new LOD 1. The transistion to LOD 0 is too abrupt.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Turambar on March 03, 2008, 11:34:07 am
i was just noticing that.

the direction on the pulse on that arm switches direction.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on March 03, 2008, 09:38:32 pm
Also the Mjolnir looks like it needs its MOI recalculated.  It seems just a little too easy to knock around.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: shiv on March 08, 2008, 12:56:50 pm
I've got one question. How did you do those white missile glows in assest.vp?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on March 09, 2008, 11:44:01 am
The missileglow things are standard simple glowpoint attached to the missile models. Concept is based on missiles made for SoL. The fadeout at close range was done by fooling with individual mipmaps.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on March 09, 2008, 08:17:41 pm
Yeah, lots of bugs in these Media VPs: Asteriods cause massive slow downs (I know that is an issue with Media VPs and not my hardware)
Squished
Ravana and Aten models have primaries and beams going through them without causing damage and almost impossible to disarm the Ravana (not good collision detection)
Thoroughly squished and then squished some more
the firing effects of beams between the beam and the warship guns (orbs) don't usually appear on Shivan warships
I think this is squished. If not it will be before release. :)
I shoot at a terran cargo contain (the one that is rectangular) and it spins around :D
Not quite sure if this one is squishable by non-coders. I don't think it's a MOI problem because I've noticed it on ships that have never previously had MOI faults. We're keeping an eye on it, but datawise the 3.6.10 VPs will be fine so that once any potential code bug in that regard is fixed, there shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on March 09, 2008, 09:58:40 pm
My Cargo03 doesn't spin around thanks to PCS 2.0.1.

Stay's that way regardless of EXE used. I think it could be considered squished.

*** Petition ***

Regardless of what mission files get used, in TSM-104, could we Pretty Please replace the "GTC Leviathan 7" with "GTC Zollner"?

All the others get to go up against the Sathanas, Zollner doesn't show up until the last mission.

*** End Petition ***
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: shiv on March 11, 2008, 03:52:52 pm
The missileglow things are standard simple glowpoint attached to the missile models. Concept is based on missiles made for SoL. The fadeout at close range was done by fooling with individual mipmaps.

Thanks for telling that. Is anybody able to do some glowpoints like those for Earth Defense missile models later?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wanderer on March 11, 2008, 04:22:06 pm
Any one remotely capable of POFfing can do it. Well as long as he uses PCS or PCS2.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on March 11, 2008, 05:12:45 pm
The missileglow things are standard simple glowpoint attached to the missile models. Concept is based on missiles made for SoL. The fadeout at close range was done by fooling with individual mipmaps.

Thanks for telling that. Is anybody able to do some glowpoints like those for Earth Defense missile models later?

We would just probably be fine just using the one out of the mediavps (with credits of course).  The work in the POF is pretty easy.  I can do it when the time comes.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on March 17, 2008, 02:52:46 am
Is there any possible way it can be done so that if 3D Radar is enabled, you can get rid of the old 2d in it's background?

I did a blank series of DDS files for an eff, but then I had no 3D radar at all.

Maybe enable the "popup" feature (or is that a code change?) to display it without a backdrop.
Title: oh mah gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd
Post by: Kaoru on March 18, 2008, 03:43:58 am
I just spent ten minutes following an asteroid around in The Place of Chariots.
A. Goddamn. Asteroid.
It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.

I would have boned that goddamn asteroid if I could've gotten out of my cockpit.

You fellas have outdone yourselves. Seriously. FS2 looks better than basic Half-Life 2 does, at this point. FS2 looks better than freakin' World in Conflict, Company of Heroes, fer frick's sake, if you keep this up, you're gonna put Chrysis to shame.

This project - Freespace Open - is the most incredible thing I've ever seen. It is an inspiration to me as a modder and a writer to see something of this scale thriving and expanding and getting consistently better, even today. I feel honored and priveleged to play this game.

That said, I'm having a few issues, which I've detailed in a topic in this forum titled 'Problems with Beta MediaVPs' or some-such. Any assistance would be appreciated!

P.S.: Muzzleflashes and redone thrusters and excellent beam FX = teh secks. Thank you again.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on March 18, 2008, 03:09:13 pm
Is there an alternate site? I need those MVPs, the place where DaBrain uploaded them doesn't seem to like me.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on March 19, 2008, 04:41:59 am
Is there an alternate site? I need those MVPs, the place where DaBrain uploaded them doesn't seem to like me.

hi,
do you try the rapidshare links?
they are still up.

here is the link to the post:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51229.msg1035957.html#msg1035957

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on March 19, 2008, 02:05:36 pm
As I said before, I can't use rapidshare.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mehrpack on March 21, 2008, 05:22:44 am
As I said before, I can't use rapidshare.

hi,
you said the places where dabrain upload it, cant you use, but i had upload the files to rapidshare :).
then are the links are really hidden in the thread.
so was my guess, that you didnt see / use them .

i do have a private webspace, i will post a link to a file.
if you can download the file, send me a anwser and i will upload the files to my space and send you via private messages the links.
click me  :D (http://www.the-nighthawks.com/store/FS/atioglxx.rar)
if you didnt download it, do you have another place?

Mehrpack
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mars on March 21, 2008, 01:52:03 pm
Before the final release could the Leviathan be given the Fenris's normal map by default?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on March 21, 2008, 01:58:33 pm
Why would they?!?

EDIT: The site DaBrain used doesn't really like me...I managed to get mv_core and mv_music, the others seem impossible to DL for me.

I can't use rapidshare as my connection isn't compatible with it(I know it since the beginning, almost 2 years ago). I would like the MVPs to be ULed on FreeSpaceMods.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mars on March 21, 2008, 02:29:49 pm
Because it doesn't use any normal map right now and the Fenris and Leviathan are similar enough for it to work.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on March 21, 2008, 02:40:45 pm
Wait, I assume they kept the old Leviathan design...

EDIT: I got them...one question: why do you use the old Ursa texture?!?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on March 25, 2008, 06:41:36 pm
OK I have a couple more complaints :rolleyes:

The Ares cockpit isn't really shiny at all, and it should be (it is glass after all).

Also the beamglow on the AdvEffects SGreen is too solid and/or too wide.  It was fine with the older beamglows, because they are not quite so solid, but with the new one, its a big solid(ish) circle that seems to engulf a large part of the ship it is firing from.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mars on April 12, 2008, 10:33:03 am
I like the way the SGreen looks, but I agree it needs to be made smaller
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 12, 2008, 11:04:28 am
Wait, I assume they kept the old Leviathan design...

EDIT: I got them...one question: why do you use the old Ursa texture?!?


I guess they prefer a clean Ursa over a grimy Ursa. They're both 2048x1024.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on April 12, 2008, 01:56:14 pm
I guess they prefer a clean Ursa over a grimy Ursa. They're both 2048x1024.

The new texture is much better, the old one wasn't good because of the fact that it was clean and looked strange.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 12, 2008, 02:15:49 pm
How does it look strange? Maybe they hose it off in between sorties?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 12, 2008, 04:48:52 pm
Whenever I use a Media Vps as a mod, my ships turn white, or when I play, my afterburner glows are boxed white and my primary and secondary weps are white.!! the planets and the nebulas are upgraded....
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 12, 2008, 04:58:29 pm
Can anyone please post what they have in their FS2 folder, their command line and everything else to make the MEDIAVPS 3.6.10 Beta have the best graphics possible for me?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 12, 2008, 07:20:53 pm
I'm setting it up again now, so I'll post what I do. (you should be using a 3.6.10 build from the FSO Installer to get max graphics, as well as the 3.6.10 Beta MediaVPs)

Under the "Features" tab:
Under "Graphics":

Everything under "HUD"

Under "Gameplay":


There is a dumpload of other stuff you could do, I'm making a topic to find the best stuff, as I need this info too now that I upgraded my PC. (I can finally use AdVPs)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 12, 2008, 07:34:16 pm
I don't know if using the 3.6.10 beta vps is a good idea yet, nor do I think that build is a good option yet either.  For a new person I'd still recommend the 3.6.9 build and the 3.6.8 vps.  If you want to be bleeding edge, go ahead with the newer stuff, but be warned they have a significant amount of bugs in the last public release.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 12, 2008, 07:35:23 pm
3.6.8 Zeta has obnoxious environment map bugs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 12, 2008, 07:42:08 pm
So turn off specular alpha mapping, it's far easier to deal with than most of the bugs I've seen reported in the 3.6.10 betas.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on April 12, 2008, 07:58:40 pm
Even without spectacular alpha mapping, some ships are just too shiny (like the Trition IIRC)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on April 12, 2008, 10:16:26 pm
It's the env mapping making the medusa, pegassus, triton, lucifer, tc-tri and aeolus ultra shiny because those old versions were made before the alpha env mapping became mainstream. They had pure white alpha maps which told the game that the entire surface had mirror like reflections.

As Chief says though, you can turn off the env mapping and the regular shine maps will still work fine. :)

GTSVA: are you running the game in open GL mode?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on April 15, 2008, 11:25:55 am
How does it look strange? Maybe they hose it off in between sorties?

They're too clean and don't look realistic. The ones freespaceking made are much better.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 15, 2008, 11:30:02 am
 :nervous:


I still need to download these so i reserve my right to comment until future notice............
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on April 15, 2008, 11:35:19 am
I think freespaceking made them public, they're somewhere in the Inferno forum.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 15, 2008, 04:01:35 pm
I think freespaceking made them public, they're somewhere in the Inferno forum.
That be the place. Yarr.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 22, 2008, 05:19:06 pm
Yes, I am using OPENGL,

and my ships still appear white.....

Where can I get the 3.6.10 build, I already have the MediaVPS 3.6.10 Beta... :mad: :mad: :mad:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 22, 2008, 05:20:22 pm
There's quite a few experimental builds in the Source Code Project -> Recent Builds section, but nothing official yet.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on April 22, 2008, 05:20:51 pm
Look for one of the XT builds.  Those are the ones that support normal maps.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on April 23, 2008, 12:18:05 am
Don't forget that a sdr####.vp is also going to be needed to actually SEE the normal maps and other effects.

I recommend XT 0314 and sdr1107. There are other combinations, but this one produces the smoothest performance with the least amount of issues. (Like nameplate alpha corruption and other graphical related issues.)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on April 23, 2008, 12:37:02 am
How close are the final MediaVPs to completion?  And once they are complete, will they be held back until FS2_Open 3.6.10 is finalized?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 23, 2008, 08:30:21 am
I have no clue what you guys are talking about....
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 23, 2008, 10:09:11 am
I have no clue what you guys are talking about....
The following things are useful:

- Playing in OpenGL.
- Taylor's XT0314 build (http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/willrobinson/Xt0314-win32.rar).
- The sdr1107 shader... um, thingamadoodle (http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/misc/sdr1107.rar)
- The 3.6.10 MediaVPs.

Note that the build is not an official one and it just might be a bit unstable. So don't blame us if your computer starts to burn and cast spells.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 23, 2008, 12:31:56 pm
where do I put put the sdr shader thingie?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 23, 2008, 12:33:13 pm
Partially hinted by the fact that it's a vp: to your \mediavps\ folder.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 23, 2008, 12:51:21 pm
Bah, it still doesn't work....

Here's what I have in my FS2 folder...

===================================================

data
derelict
fsport
installer
MediaVps 3.6.10 Beta
       -data
       -MV core
       -MV Assets
       -MV Effects
       -sdr1107
screenshots
temp
tools
errorlog
Freespace2
Fs2(paint file)
FS2
FS2_open-3_6_9.dmg
fs2_open_3_6_9
fs2_open_3_6_9_debug
fs2_open_3_6_10
fs2_open_3_6_10_debug-Xt_0314
fs2_open_3_6_10-Xt_0314
FS2NetGV
FS2OGGcutscenepack
fso369-x86.tar
fso369-x86_64.tar
launcher(5.5)
launcher6
mod
modt
multi-mission-pack
multi-voice-pack
patchw32.dll
root_fs2
smarty_fs2
sparky_fs2
spark_hi_fs2
stu_fs2
tango1_fs2
tango2_fs2
tango3_fs2
updatelauncher
warble_fs2

============================================

and here's my command line-

C:\Documents and Settings\Wizard Drakonnan\My Documents\Freespace2\fs2_open_3_6_9.exe -mod MediaVPs 3.6.10Beta -spec -glow -env -mipmap -missile_lighting -dualscanlines -targetinfo -orbradar -rearm_timer -ballistic_gauge -ship_choice_3d -3dwarp -warp_flash -window

I'm using OPENGL and my MediaVPS 3.6.10 Beta is enabled as my mod

and after all of this, my ships and environment are still a white texture and everything is white when I play!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I missing anything? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :confused:


Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 23, 2008, 12:52:53 pm
Tell me what I need to get rid of and what I am missing...
and feel free to ask me any questions...

I really want to get the full effects of this MEDIAVPS!!!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 23, 2008, 12:56:08 pm
C:\Documents and Settings\Wizard Drakonnan\My Documents\Freespace2\fs2_open_3_6_9.exe -mod MediaVPs 3.6.10Beta -spec -glow -env -mipmap -missile_lighting -dualscanlines -targetinfo -orbradar -rearm_timer -ballistic_gauge -ship_choice_3d -3dwarp -warp_flash -window
1. NO! It is not good to have FreeSpace in My Documents. C:\Games\Freespace or something like it would be better. But not My Documents. And not the desktop.

2. Add -normal -height to the Custom flags field.

Oh and the black and white stripes... there was a build that fixes it. Hang on a sec...

Edit: Try this (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/taylor/20071028-win32.rar).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 23, 2008, 05:38:55 pm
Problem with the Loki. Lines radiate from the edges of the Loki to the center of the HUD. Seems like a texture problem to me.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on April 23, 2008, 06:55:44 pm
Never got them. You DO realize you admitted to having a crappy video card, right? :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 23, 2008, 07:07:36 pm
Problem with the Loki. Lines radiate from the edges of the Loki to the center of the HUD. Seems like a texture problem to me.

Sounds more like some graphical corruption resulting from broken/overheating GPU or bugged driver.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 23, 2008, 07:20:36 pm
Don't think so. S'only with the Loki. And it is the textures, it also happens to the part-Loki fighter in BP.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 23, 2008, 07:22:10 pm
Are we supposed to report bugs here?

If so, the Aten seems buggier than normal, it lets anything through unless you get a lucky shot.

The Faustus is missing most of the back end, and it has the same shooting-through problem as the Aten.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 23, 2008, 07:53:29 pm
Tell me what I need to get rid of and what I am missing...
and feel free to ask me any questions...

I really want to get the full effects of this MEDIAVPS!!!

Along with not having spaces in the path to the game, you probably shouldn't have spaces in any of the subfolder names either, so the media vp folder should just be something like "mediavps" or "mvp_beta" or something.  Also, you should probably turn on displaying file extensions on your computer, it's sometimes nice to know what the extension actually is and not just what windows thinks it is.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on April 23, 2008, 08:08:58 pm
Are we supposed to report bugs here?

If so, the Aten seems buggier than normal, it lets anything through unless you get a lucky shot.

The Faustus is missing most of the back end, and it has the same shooting-through problem as the Aten.

I've said two or three times now, your video card sucks. I can see every ship just fine on my 8600 GT, and the only problem I have with models is the collision holes that comes from using the 3DSMax .pof exporter.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 23, 2008, 08:12:21 pm
Ok, first of all, I moved the FS2 folder to GAMES

second, any build I use, when I select MediaVPS 3.6.10 as a mod, my ships turn white not stripy.

Third, I changed the MediaVPs folder with no spaces...but still, whatever I do, my ships are white, my weapons are white, planets nebulas you name it...white white white white...Is there something wrong with my MEDIAVPS 3.6.10? :shaking:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 23, 2008, 08:40:18 pm
Yes my card may suck, but if so, why am I getting graphical errors on only one model? and only one texture, at that.

And the other two ships have collision holes.

Why don't you just shut up?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 23, 2008, 09:31:49 pm
I think the Aten in the beta is a known buggy model that VA has probably fixed for the final release.  I wouldn't worry about it.  GTSVA, Cobra might be a bit harsh, but he's right about your card, at least to some extent.  Low end cards will probably have trouble with new beta builds/beta VPs.  That's why they're beta.  Make sure you have the latest drivers as well, ATI is always messing with their OpenGL support, sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse.  If you're using the latest maybe try reverting, although decide if that's really worth it or not as reverting doesn't always work perfectly.  Don't even try normal map support probably, I doubt it will work.  Try disabling GLSL in the launcher as well, and see what changes.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 23, 2008, 10:05:47 pm
I think the Aten in the beta is a known buggy model that VA has probably fixed for the final release.  I wouldn't worry about it.  GTSVA, Cobra might be a bit harsh, but he's right about your card, at least to some extent.  Low end cards will probably have trouble with new beta builds/beta VPs.  That's why they're beta.  Make sure you have the latest drivers as well, ATI is always messing with their OpenGL support, sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse.  If you're using the latest maybe try reverting, although decide if that's really worth it or not as reverting doesn't always work perfectly.  Don't even try normal map support probably, I doubt it will work.  Try disabling GLSL in the launcher as well, and see what changes.
He's *****ing at me about the card, being a ***** like usual.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 23, 2008, 10:11:38 pm
Oh, nooo!

Don't get all worked up about my problem...I just came to this forum for help...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on April 23, 2008, 10:14:09 pm
XT builds have caused white ships (well, white everything) for me too, under certain settings.  When was the last Mac XT build released?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 24, 2008, 12:23:36 am
Dec. 8 to my knowledge.  Of course, the last one in the Current OS X thread is Oct. 28.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 08:44:44 am
Well, for me using any build causes white everything...=( (ONly when I select MediaVPS as a mod...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 24, 2008, 08:56:53 am
Have you also tried the older 3.6.8 mediavps?  That would really help narrow it down.  Try disabling other features, everything white could be an issue with shine map support, so maybe disable the various maps in the graphics section.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 24, 2008, 10:07:10 am
Silly question but how does fred look with "-fredhtl -mod mediavps" ??
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 10:27:08 am
>>Chief1983- Any MediaVPS I try to use results in a catastrophe..though I'll try the 3.6.8 again...

EDIT: No...no luck...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 24, 2008, 12:09:35 pm
Sorry for the misunderstanding GTSVA, I'm not pissed about your problem, rather 'cause Cobra's being an ass. It has nothing to do with you.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 12:13:06 pm
Oh..that's quite alright. I just wish I could use MediaVPS...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 12:23:25 pm
AHA! Here is what all my ships look like when I enable MediaVPS as a mod-!!!

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50309.0/topicseen.html

omg! Well, the white ones anyways....
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 24, 2008, 12:25:26 pm
 :wtf: Soo... does this mean that your problem is that you've broken something and are currently unable to see any textures?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 12:26:22 pm
I dunno, all my ships and everything turn white like that when I enable MediaVPs....
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 24, 2008, 12:34:16 pm
Oh, a completely irrelevant thing popped to my mind: what were your system specs, again? Your operating system and graphics card would probably be the most important ones.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 01:02:19 pm
Uhhhhh lost.... :nervous:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 24, 2008, 01:15:18 pm
*sigh* Srsly...?

1. Download this (http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpuz_144.zip), extract it, run it and tell us what it says.
2. Download this (http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1031g/GPU-Z.0.1.9.exe), run it and tell us what it says.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on April 24, 2008, 01:21:34 pm
Sorry for the misunderstanding GTSVA, I'm not pissed about your problem, rather 'cause Cobra's being an ass. It has nothing to do with you.

How the hell am I being an ass?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 24, 2008, 01:23:19 pm
Telling me over and over that my PC is **** and that I'm stupid, while I know that neither of those is the problem.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on April 24, 2008, 01:26:28 pm
I said video card. A video card is hardly an entire system.

Andi t doesn't seem strange to you when you're one of the very few that has these problems? It just MIGHT be the graphics card.

Or maybe the drivers, I don't know. But the problem lies with the graphics card either way.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 01:33:10 pm
Lobo, what exactly should I tell you?

My graphics card is - 64MB NVIDIA GeForce2 MX with TV Out

and my operating system..you mean like WINDOWS XP Home Edition?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 24, 2008, 01:37:31 pm
1. Knowing stuff about your computer can be quite useful nowadays.
2. The graphics card sounds old. Really old.
3. Try updating the drivers of your graphics card.
4. Yes. The operating system is what you use to, you know, operate your computer. And apparently in your case it is XP. Thank you.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 01:59:54 pm
Old...graphics card...oh boy...

Update...I haven't a clue how to do that actually....
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 24, 2008, 02:13:29 pm
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_71.89.html
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 24, 2008, 02:18:24 pm
Old...graphics card...oh boy...

Update...I haven't a clue how to do that actually....
Bit of clarification.

The operating system is, to simplify, the base program of your computer. It makes the shiny graphics you see. Programs, like FS, run on top of the OS. the file that your PC uses to run your graphics card is called a driver (a driver can be used to run any hardware). The manufacturer of your graphics card releases periodic updates for this driver, that makes it run faster, fixes bugs, etc. Basically you're installing a new driver for your video card, to fix a bug with FS2.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 02:25:32 pm
So...buy a new graphics card...?

My computer is old anyway...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 24, 2008, 02:32:00 pm
Buy a new graphics card or a whole new computer; the simple options. Or for the time being, just play without the mediavps. I'd guess that even if you managed to get things working with new drivers, that GeForce would cry in pain with the 3.6.10 Betas.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 24, 2008, 02:46:46 pm
Sigh...that ends my problem...for now....Thanks for all your help guys...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 24, 2008, 09:02:36 pm
Just to double check, when you enabled the mediavps, did you disable all of the other checkboxes under graphics, experimental, and troubleshooting?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 25, 2008, 08:10:37 am
Am I supposed to do that?

I'll try it now...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 25, 2008, 09:47:07 am
Well the texture thing sounds like an issue with one of the maps.  Besides the base map, every other texture on a ship is new since retail.  So if you disable shine, glow, environmental, etc maps, you can tell if it's a problem with rendering what's essentially the same as retail, except for possibly different file formats, or if it's a problem with one of the other newer maps.  It sounds like a shine issue but that's just a completely random guess.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 25, 2008, 03:15:46 pm
Well, it didn't work..but, I saw that when I move the MV_Assets out of the folder, the ships and stars become visible, but my planets, afterburner and primary weapons are still white. Oh well...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 25, 2008, 03:34:19 pm
Well DDS textures are used quite heavily, but the Geforce2 is supposed to be DX7 compliant, and DX7 is when DDS support came around.  Otherwise I don't know how mvp diffuse maps differ from retail ones, other than being simply larger.  That may be the issue though, the textures may be too large for the card, or there may be too many.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on April 25, 2008, 03:49:07 pm
Having run that very same card with the 3.6.8Z mediavps, maybe I can add a little bit to the discussion.

It's not a DX7 incompatibility, at least not with the older mediaVPs.  Those ran fine.  However, that particular card will get its ass kicked trying to run the mediaVPs for any length of time, so you're better to use an FSOpen build without the visual enhancements to begin with.

However, the GF2 MX series does display DDS textures just fine.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 25, 2008, 07:01:36 pm
Soooooo now what?    :sigh:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2008, 07:09:53 pm
I think I've found the problem with my freaky Loki. This seems to also happen with the Zeus, and what do these have in common? VA. I think they have a botched conversion job.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2008, 07:29:45 pm
Screenies of glitches. Don't mind the inverted colors, it's another 3.6.10 bug.

The Faustus is half missing.
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2z8x374.png)
The Loki has a botched texture or something.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/6htatd.jpg)
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2dqki0z.png)
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2upzl.png)
(http://i32.tinypic.com/2vjobyo.png)
(http://i32.tinypic.com/53l2zs.png)
Zeus is the same.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/2m60nkh.png)

With the Loki it's hard to notice the damage when not ingame, but it's present at the snout of the fighter.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on April 25, 2008, 07:44:59 pm
OK OK!! Enough images!  That looks like a graphics bug  that isn't caused by these specific VPs.  Are your drivers updated?  Are you running OpenGL?  Do you get the same error across multiple builds?

EDIT: And please use [lvlshot] tags as well.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 25, 2008, 08:07:06 pm
Even if it's a model specific issue, it may not mean that something is "wrong" per ce in the models - it just might mean that these models are built in a way that your system/graphics card or driver does not understand completely.

If the issue is indeed model-specific, it does of course mean that there is something different in the models that don't render correctly, as opposed to models that work normally. Ideally, of course, a model that works on one system should work similarly on all systems (with capacity to use the models in the first place). But even then, it might not be error in the model but error in the way the GPU or it's driver handles the slightly different data. Don't know what makes these models different... 3dMax's POF conversion plugin vs PCS? Another place in the conversion path? Some specific modelling program used? It could be any of a number of things, but it doesn't inherently mean that the model is "broken" or that the conversion is botched, especially as they work properly on majority of systems. It just means that for whatever reason, these models don't work correctly with your system (GPU), and the fault being in models is just one possibility.

It is of course possible that newer GPU's and their drivers might just have better error recovery features that fix the problems in the model, but in this case I would be inclined to guesstimate that the difference in models is not the actual reason for this problem manifesting on your PC.

One thing that has quite possibly been asked before, I don't remember and I won't be checking through the thread - have you emptied all the ../FreeSpace2/data/cache and ../<mod>/data/cache directories? It might be a corrupt cached model file... If you have, already received this advice before and it didn't help, just disregard this latest paragraph.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 25, 2008, 09:23:44 pm
I thought about the cache, but those didn't seem like the normal symptoms. Now the Faustus is showing normally (a.k.a all there) but with the standard corrupt cache symptoms.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on April 26, 2008, 01:25:04 am
Colecampbell: there is no botched conversion, textures or normal map in any way shape or form on the loki or zeus. Given the amount of testing I do on each model I make, I can be absolutely certain of that. I would bet that Cobra is actually quite right here - these errors are being caused by a crappy graphics card and/or drivers.

Notice how the errors you're seeing are not the same on either side of the loki? That right away means it can't possibly be the maps because the model uses the same part of the maps on either side. You can also sometimes see the textures correctly applied beneath the errors meaning it isn't a UV mapping data error, and I know the smoothing is neither broken nor could do that kind of thing anyway.

What I do see in your screens is a massive amount of blue. Blue impact particles, blue glowmaps on the cargo, blue enemy targetting brackets, blue enemy names in the escort list, blue all over the loki where red should be right down to blue left side glowpoints, blue buttons in the interface and even hints of blue in much of the rest of the interface art. Seeing as all of these colours SHOULD be red or redish, I am quite certain the problem is at your end and is not a data problem. ;)

And finally - if as you say the faustus is sometimes showing correctly and sometimes not, how can that be a problem with the model? No, you're definitely seeing non data and probably non FSO related bugs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blackhole on April 26, 2008, 01:42:46 am
Quote
Even if it's a model specific issue, it may not mean that something is "wrong" per ce in the models - it just might mean that these models are built in a way that your system/graphics card or driver does not understand completely.

If the issue is indeed model-specific, it does of course mean that there is something different in the models that don't render correctly, as opposed to models that work normally. Ideally, of course, a model that works on one system should work similarly on all systems (with capacity to use the models in the first place). But even then, it might not be error in the model but error in the way the GPU or it's driver handles the slightly different data. Don't know what makes these models different... 3dMax's POF conversion plugin vs PCS? Another place in the conversion path? Some specific modelling program used? It could be any of a number of things, but it doesn't inherently mean that the model is "broken" or that the conversion is botched, especially as they work properly on majority of systems. It just means that for whatever reason, these models don't work correctly with your system (GPU), and the fault being in models is just one possibility.

It is of course possible that newer GPU's and their drivers might just have better error recovery features that fix the problems in the model, but in this case I would be inclined to guesstimate that the difference in models is not the actual reason for this problem manifesting on your PC.

NO. A graphics driver, by definition, cannot fix a broken model, because even if a model is broken, it will be sent to the graphics driver as a series of triangles and textures. There is no possible way for the graphics driver to even attempt to "fix" a broken model because a broken model is declared "broken" by a human, not a machine. Hence why PCS turns your model into a bunch of gibberish when it doesn't like your file, but still renders it fine.

Any and all driver problems must affect all models being rendered, because it doesn't know what a model is. If a single model is acting up, its a problem with the game engine not reading the model data correctly, not the driver, except for textures. Assuming that model satisfies a unique set of criteria for the type of compression and format of texturing that it is using, it is technically possible for there to only be one model that is screwed up by the driver. However, this has nothing to do with how the model is built, because all of the models are the same format, and even then an error in the actual model has to be the fault of the graphics engine, not the driver.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 26, 2008, 02:28:39 am
Soooooo now what?    :sigh:
Quite easy, my good man. Either
a) Play without the MediaVPs (recommended) or
b) Update your graphics card's drivers, which isn't all that rocket science, I might add.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 26, 2008, 02:40:30 am
NO.


Okay, thanks for correction. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on April 26, 2008, 02:48:48 am
Cole:

What video card do you have, and are either of your video card or processor overclocked?  Is the fan on your video card working correctly?

Those sorts of artifacts and texture corruption issues are frequently the symptoms of hardware heat problems.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 26, 2008, 08:13:26 am
Thanks again everyone... :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 26, 2008, 08:31:44 am
Cole:

What video card do you have, and are either of your video card or processor overclocked?  Is the fan on your video card working correctly?

Those sorts of artifacts and texture corruption issues are frequently the symptoms of hardware heat problems.
Radeon 9550. Last time I checked, the fan was working fine.

As I've said, the inverted colors are a bug, and they seem to be present in other Radeons, as other people have reported the same bug.

EDIT: The fan seems to be clogged, Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 26, 2008, 09:39:28 am
Got the fan to work, and the weird lines have disappeared. Thanks.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 26, 2008, 01:32:14 pm
Hey the link someone gave me worked. I updated my card and now my MediaVPS works! YES!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 26, 2008, 01:39:36 pm
You're welcome.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 26, 2008, 03:09:43 pm
Thanks LOBO...Hey Lobo, do you play Fs2 anymore like Multiplayer, and If you do, whats your ingame name?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 26, 2008, 03:10:58 pm
No. I'm not really into multiplayer.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on April 26, 2008, 06:41:29 pm
ummmmmm ok...how do you put the thing under all your posts? Like that sorrow poem...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MP-Ryan on April 26, 2008, 06:50:30 pm
Got the fan to work, and the weird lines have disappeared. Thanks.

No problem.  As for colour inversion, are you getting it ingame on the models, or in the 2D mode?

And have you updated to the Catalyst 8.3s?  They resolved a whole whack of issues on my system.  I see the 8.4s are now out too.

When you update Catalyst drivers, do NOT install Catalyst Control Center.  Just install the driver itself.  Then install ATI Tray Tools (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733) and use it to configure the card.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on April 26, 2008, 06:59:42 pm
ummmmmm ok...how do you put the thing under all your posts? Like that sorrow poem...

That's your signature.  You edit by clicking "Profile" at the top of the page and then "Forum Profile Related Settings" on the left.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Shade on April 26, 2008, 07:01:10 pm
Do us a favour though and don't go overboard, as massively large sigs are incredibly annoying. General rule of thumb: If you sig is longer than your average post, it's too long.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 26, 2008, 07:19:38 pm
Got the fan to work, and the weird lines have disappeared. Thanks.

No problem.  As for colour inversion, are you getting it ingame on the models, or in the 2D mode?

And have you updated to the Catalyst 8.3s?  They resolved a whole whack of issues on my system.  I see the 8.4s are now out too.

When you update Catalyst drivers, do NOT install Catalyst Control Center.  Just install the driver itself.  Then install ATI Tray Tools (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733) and use it to configure the card.
Oh believe me, I learned about CCC quickly. I have the latest 8.3 drivers. And as I said, I get the inverted colors when paused and in completed screenshots. Backslash has a 1950 and gets the same problem.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Backslash on April 26, 2008, 09:47:58 pm
Yeah I'm on 8.4 and the inverted still happens, but only when paused and screenshots.  Everything else works great.

And thanks for the tip about ATI Tray Tools versus CCC, that thing just started bugging me today (and I only installed it yesterday).  Somehow I avoided installing it all the previous times.

As for the discussion about strange model corruption and different graphics drivers and whatnot... do note that taylor DID recently (beginning of April) fix a problem that seemed to only affect ATI users, that caused certain models to show Shards of Death.  I saw this on the 3.6.10 beta mediavp asteroids and Lokis in particular.  Now it is working, huzzah.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 27, 2008, 03:34:06 am
ummmmmm ok...how do you put the thing under all your posts? Like that sorrow poem...
Aye, these signatures are mighty fun. It makes it easy to give advise to new people, like "Use Turey's Installer (link in my sig)" or "Read Karajorma's FreeSpace FAQ (link in my sig)". And it's not a poem. I express my hatred towards the world by quoting bits 'n pieces from cheerfully refreshing Dir en grey songs.

On topic: Am I missing something or does the Myrmidon look the same as it always has? I can't see any difference compared to 3.6.8's. Or, to some extent, even retail.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vip on April 27, 2008, 04:47:50 am
I don't suppose a HTL Myrmidon was in any official MVPs (or actually existed in the first place). So yeah, that's retail what you're looking at, just as the Ulysses for instance. An easy way to check it is to go into the techroom under F3, and in Render Options turn on the wireframe. HTL models have insanely complex wireframes, while the retail ones are very simple.

Still, with the normal maps on, even the good ol' Ulysses doesn't look that bad ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on April 27, 2008, 04:50:26 am
I do remember an advanced Myrmidon. Like the new Ursa textures, they didn't et in the Media VPs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on April 27, 2008, 09:44:13 am
As for the discussion about strange model corruption and different graphics drivers and whatnot... do note that taylor DID recently (beginning of April) fix a problem that seemed to only affect ATI users, that caused certain models to show Shards of Death.  I saw this on the 3.6.10 beta mediavp asteroids and Lokis in particular.  Now it is working, huzzah.
I believe you were saying something, Cobra.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on April 27, 2008, 10:41:16 am
As for the discussion about strange model corruption and different graphics drivers and whatnot... do note that taylor DID recently (beginning of April) fix a problem that seemed to only affect ATI users, that caused certain models to show Shards of Death.  I saw this on the 3.6.10 beta mediavp asteroids and Lokis in particular.  Now it is working, huzzah.
I believe you were saying something, Cobra.

QFT
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on April 27, 2008, 10:57:48 pm
I do remember an advanced Myrmidon. Like the new Ursa textures, they didn't et in the Media VPs.
Eh? The HTL myrm has been in the MVPs for ages - it's just harder to spot because it's not as high poly as most other models and doesn't have a transparent cockpit.

As for the other ursa textures - if you want them in so badly, then at least link us to them! :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on April 29, 2008, 12:45:51 am
Raa / Taristin showed images of a Myrmidon with a standing pilot.  It was never converted for in game use AFAIK.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: StrayFender on May 02, 2008, 02:04:56 pm
It looks great !!!  :D

but the asteroids are killing my FPS  :sigh:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 02:17:00 pm
Eh? The HTL myrm has been in the MVPs for ages - it's just harder to spot because it's not as high poly as most other models and doesn't have a transparent cockpit.

As for the other ursa textures - if you want them in so badly, then at least link us to them! :p

Then the new textures made the Myrmidon look much better...

Their superiority over the Ursa textures you're using isn't open to debate. Ask freespaceking.


It looks great !!!  :D

but the asteroids are killing my FPS  :sigh:


:welcomesilver:

Welcome to the HLPBB!!! Remember, there's a wide selection...you can adapt it to your computer's specs with the launcher ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 02, 2008, 02:20:09 pm
It looks great !!!  :D

but the asteroids are killing my FPS  :sigh:

Aye. It is a common issue. But not to worry. It will be fixed once the final 3.6.10 MediaVPs are released.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 02, 2008, 02:21:07 pm
Funny, they don't even seem to make a dent in mine.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 02:24:24 pm
It depends. I know that Snail has been experiencing problems.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 02, 2008, 02:25:30 pm
Funny, they don't even seem to make a dent in mine.
You and your Deep Thought, Hactar, HAL 9000 or whatever can stay out of this discussion.

j/k, you know.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: StrayFender on May 02, 2008, 03:16:22 pm
It looks great !!!  :D

but the asteroids are killing my FPS  :sigh:

Aye. It is a common issue. But not to worry. It will be fixed once the final 3.6.10 MediaVPs are released.

Well Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 04, 2008, 06:05:00 am
I got the full set minus the music two weeks back. Kudos to everyone :) although i've noticed the Ravannas' engine glows are somewhat "off centre"
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:09:48 am
I got the full set minus the music two weeks back. Kudos to everyone :) although i've noticed the Ravanas'engine glows are somewhat "off center"

Two bad errors, especially the second(:P).

I think they're using one of the first versions of the HTL Ravana, I remember the badly placed engine thrusters.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 04, 2008, 06:28:28 am
Two bad errors, especially the second(:P).
I fail to see what was wrong with the second one. Both forms are acceptable.  :rolleyes:

I got the full set minus the music two weeks back. Kudos to everyone :) although i've noticed the Ravannas' engine glows are somewhat "off centre"
The Ravana issue should be fixed with the final release. Do remember the word "Beta". Asteroids are another pain in the arse currently.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:33:54 am
Centre is British, center is American (:P)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 04, 2008, 06:39:49 am
And Colonol Deckker is...<drumroll> British! :p

Anyway, the ravana has indeed been fixed for the final set. Stratcomms version worked fine.

The asteroids have also been fixed and improved for the finals. I rebuilt the three that were there and added 6 more. I also brought back the old blue/orange/brown set differences. Since each set uses only the one texture, the fields should run much faster now.

Mobius, do you have links for those possible upgraded textures? We can't add something we don't have. ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:49:37 am
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45072.msg958291.html#msg958291
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 04, 2008, 06:54:28 am
Thank you, but the download link there is file not found. If you have them still, can you upload them?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:59:14 am
We're using them in INFA SA. I guess you should ask Woomeister :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 04, 2008, 07:09:51 am
Then I guess they won't go in. :p

I'm not going to chase after some maps that *might* be a bit better than the existing ones. :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 07:12:39 am
They ARE better. I find disgusting the ones you're using. :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 04, 2008, 07:20:42 am
If they mean that much to you, then go and get them yourself.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 07:25:30 am
Here's a low detailled screenshot. I know it sucks, I know it doesn't fully show the upgrade...but look...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 04, 2008, 07:29:15 am
As Blowfish said: If you want it, you find it. I can't tell much about it beyond 'dirty' there.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 07:31:43 am
I don't get your point. It IS an upgrade to the original, I don't see why it shouldn't be included :wtf:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 04, 2008, 07:32:40 am
Because we don't have it and aren't gonna go hunting for it? :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 07:35:58 am
Ok, let me say something...

Freespaceking made the textures public but they're no longer hosted on rapidshare. I think you should simply contact Woomeister and let him know about it ;)

EDIT: I sent a PM.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 07:40:01 am
(http://www.hard-light.net/forums/Themes/HLP_oldRC2/images/logo-infa.png) under your nick says that you could do it yourself.

EDIT: Ask for the file(s), that is, and then provide a link. There are a lot of things that people in the FSUpgrade project much rather than going on a hunt for some file when someone says that this someone will have the file.

EDIT2: Crossposted the edit. Thanks for informing him, perhaps we'll get to do comparisions of the map soon. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 07:41:33 am
He has been informed. I don't tend to do things without informing the others. We'll see...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 04, 2008, 09:36:48 am
And Colonol Deckker is...<drumroll> British! Nonexistent! :p
Fixed

And why is that Ursa all grainy?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on May 04, 2008, 10:10:34 am
Why is everything grainy?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 10:39:06 am
Just got carte blanche from Woomeister. Please DL the file ASAP, it won't remain here for long(I used the FSCRP FileFront account :wtf:)!

"Grainy"? It makes it look better. Dirty is sexy ;7

ULing in progress...please wait... :)

EDIT: The file is now on File Front! :D

http://files.filefront.com/GTB+Ursarar/;10132331;/fileinfo.html
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 01:19:29 pm
Okay, in terms of detail, that is better than the current texture.

The worst thing I can say about it is that the top, the bottom and the sides look like they are from different ships. Top is relatively clean, sides are rather grimy (and grainy...), and the bottom is a bit cartoony in the way it depicts the seamlines.

It also needs a glass (and glass-shine) textures. That doesn't seem to be in the beta mvp's, strangely enough...?

Also, it needed a shinemap, which I made from the texture. Here's how it looks now in the ship lab:

(http://i31.tinypic.com/300falv.png)
(http://i29.tinypic.com/10p4ivt.png)
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2emofte.png)
(http://i31.tinypic.com/33o5ox4.png)

The glowmap wasn't being used with the mediaVP Ursa, because it had "a" in the filename. Copying the glowmap into a 2048x1024 file and saving it without the "a" fixed that, but the use of glowmap can be questioned in this case because there are blinking glowpoints now where the glowmap was before, and the glowmap somewhat interferes with the glow points... That can be debated later though.

Also, making a normal map based on that is a total pain in the neck, there is so much little paneling... but I'm working on it. :drevil: On the plus side, the normal-mappable details are pretty well defined for the most parts, so the need for guesstimations is lesser than with some maps.

If my estimations are correct, a normal map would be highly beneficial to use with Freespaceking's new texture. But we'll see...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 01:24:01 pm
The texture names and eventually the glows were intended to work with INF, I should have expected something like that.

I see the grainy parts as an improvement, the other texture was too clean to look cool.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 02:04:27 pm
The texture names and eventually the glows were intended to work with INF, I should have expected something like that.

Doesn't really matter, but if I may ask a question - why is INF using a model of Ursa that uses several textures (with a and b separating them) rather than the one that uses just one texture? Or is there some uglie that just needs the "a"-part of the Ursa texture...?

Quote
I see the grainy parts as an improvement, the other texture was too clean to look cool.

Matter of opinion mostly, and it isn't too bad - it's just that the different surfaces have different levels of dirt on them. Even so, the difference isn't too notable, which is the reason that I mentioned that this was pretty much the worst I could say about that texture.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 02:16:03 pm
Uh-huh...maybe I've ULed the Geryon texture, too...they're pretty much the same :blah:

I particularly appreciate the fact that certain parts are considerably dirty while others are not: it boosts the effect and makes the difference between an upgrade and a simple "dirtification". Again, it may be a matter of opinions.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 04:08:41 pm
Hur hur... work in very much progress. Paneling of the top and sides (and partially the underside) is pretty much done, although I'll probably adjust the strength of the normal map in the end, it's a tad bit strong to my tastes at the moment - I might end up having to re-do the paneling in higher resolution, working in 8192x4096 instead of current 4096x2048. Haven't even begun on all the machinery and finer detail, not to mention any kind of general surface textures...

(http://i31.tinypic.com/2hs5eep.png)
(http://i25.tinypic.com/xddspg.png)
(http://i28.tinypic.com/igjmzm.png)

What do you think...? :nervous:

Diagonal lines in normal maps are a b...other to get rid of aliasing... No matter what, they seem to for jagged edges... the only solution I've noticed to work is to increase the normal map resolution, but seeing as this is already 2048x1024 (and low-end cards are limited to 2048^2), I don't see that happening. :blah:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 04:38:32 pm
I really like the improvement, :yes:

Can you...make it less darker in order to fit better with the original texture?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 05:12:44 pm
Can you...make it less darker in order to fit better with the original texture?[/i][/color]


I believe the word you're looking for is "brighter"? ;7

Anyway, it mostly just looks overly dark in the ship lab (which is a pretty dark environment) AND that my lighting settings are pretty dark. I *could* brighten the shinemap, but most likely nothing good would come from that. And brightening the base texture would mostly just negate the effect of dirtyness and reduce the contrast of the other details as well. The texture just happens to be slightly darker than the original (which, if memory serves right, was disgusting :lol:), so the end result is a bit darker, and that's it. It's only a little darker than with older texture (I checked with the old shinemap).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 04, 2008, 05:47:41 pm
I like the lines generated by the normal map.

I think it's the only part worth keeping.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 06:49:53 pm
I like the lines generated by the normal map.

I think it's the only part worth keeping.


Well... it is a good paneling design. I don't really care much of the so called dirtyness. The paneling (and some other) detail is well designed IMHO, as proved by the fact that the WIP normal map works remarkably well with the old texture as well, so I might just contact Freespaceking and ask if he still has the source file(s) and if he would be willing to give it up for us to meddle with, and see what different levels of dirty would look like.

It would likely make it easier to generate normal map too, to have the originals to look at for reference.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: BlackDove on May 04, 2008, 07:10:51 pm
(http://i31.tinypic.com/2hs5eep.png)
(http://i25.tinypic.com/xddspg.png)
(http://i28.tinypic.com/igjmzm.png)

What do you think...? :nervous:

**** YEAH, SEAKING!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 04, 2008, 08:33:50 pm
**** YEAH SEAKING!

(http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/seaking/images/seaking5.jpg)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Galemp on May 04, 2008, 08:58:24 pm
Ugh.

The Ursa is not a jigsaw puzzle.

You need to take a good look at the original maps--which are already plenty large--and remember that this is a bomber, not a capship. It oughta look like it's made from big, thick slabs of steel, not pieced together.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 04, 2008, 09:23:33 pm
Ugh.

The Ursa is not a jigsaw puzzle.

You need to take a good look at the original maps--which are already plenty large--and remember that this is a bomber, not a capship. It oughta look like it's made from big, thick slabs of steel, not pieced together.

Well, I'm basing that normal map on Freespaceking's map, which IMHO has some better features than the current mvp Ursa texture. I myself do like the armour plating pattern, but I'll most likely try and figure out a way to make the small lines a bit thinner.

With the current map, there's not really much detail to put into normal map. Not that it would be a necessity anyways. It's not like the normal maps just have to be used for all ships.

The comments about jigsaw puzzle, and Ursa's size, and thick slabs of steel confuse me a bit, though. Yes, Ursa is a bomber. You could also house at least two tennis courts on it's back if it were flat. I mean, the thing is huge. Thus the normal mapped details can be a bit smaller in the texture than with most fighters and bombers. Besides, there are plenty of more detailed normal maps for smaller ships - the "smallest" armour plates on this particular pattern seem to be something like 0.7*2.0 metres and thickness of the plate above the bottom of the visible seam something from 0.15 to 0.3 metres. Most are bigger. If that's not a big slab of steel (or whatever it is they use on armour) I don't know what is.

Aesthetic preference of a flatter surface is a perfectly valid and appreciated input, though. I have to admit that at the moment the plating seams are both too wide and too deep, which does kinda look like being made of some blocks.. a bit. The problem is that making them thinner seems to invoke a lot of unpleasant aliasing on the thin seams. Both in the map itself and in-game. But WIP is always WIP...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 05, 2008, 08:41:07 am
I'd need to see that normal map in game to make a completely fair judgement, but I'd agree that it looks too 'bitty' in those screens. The overall tiled effect of the plates hides much of the detail below on both the model and texture.

As for the main map itself, well it is a bit nicer as an overall look, but there are many places where that added plate detail has gone right over the existing plate detail lines which makes it look very much like an overlayed texture rather than actual small plates.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: BlackDove on May 05, 2008, 11:37:47 am
It looks ****ing awesome.

Leave as is and move on. Ursa is DONE.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: castor on May 05, 2008, 11:55:08 am
Looks tough!
Yet the "tiling" at the top is a bit too dense to my taste too. ~30% reduction in seam count, pretty please :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 08, 2008, 08:12:41 pm
Did I mention that the Dis has missing/invisible textures?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Droid803 on May 08, 2008, 08:30:04 pm
It does?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 08, 2008, 08:39:00 pm
Yes, it does.  LOD 0 has invisible parts, and LODs 1 and 2 are completely invisible.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Droid803 on May 08, 2008, 08:54:54 pm
Not on mine  :nervous:
Everything's completely visible.

This is the HTL SFr Dis you are talking about right?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on May 08, 2008, 08:55:23 pm
Well I've repaired the holey model of the Dis, but I'm not sure I checked the LODs. There were no missing bits in the LOD 0 but I'll double check that and the other LODs when I get home.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 08, 2008, 10:57:31 pm
LOD's are fine in yor internal version, VA.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 08, 2008, 11:00:28 pm
When the MediaVPs are done, do you plan to release them right away, or withhold them until SCP 3.6.10 is released?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 09, 2008, 01:03:37 am
No Idea. I just work here. :-)

In other news, a slightly less shiny touch up of the Medusa:

(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3f91d6edbed1409cc87282509c7bfdb22g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=l2l4cme2zze&thumb=6) (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/0293f00d2f51d78e67bb1cdf4ea961e62g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=o4mmmzcmiiz&thumb=6) (http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/450461adbac79eac5012c04a59558b8d2g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=ffhvriwm2j3&thumb=6)

It,s not perfect, but it should do to relieve the "AhhhGH! My eyes!" that occurs on the original shine map. (Thanks and cred for shine map go to Herra for correcting my half-ass attempt)

It's also sized to 512^2 instead of the strange 512x1024 it was originally. And DDS-ified. Glow map was subtly altered to reduce the effect. Largely irrelevant since it seems the "glows" are baked into the original base. Looking to fix that with a by-hand higher detail map at some point, still a WIP. This release is for "Just in Case".

$Freespace2InstallDir$\$modfolderORvpfolderORdata$\maps\
Bomber04-01.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/?xzjz4vix7ny)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on May 09, 2008, 03:45:18 am
Hi, i have a graphic problem.
I use the 3.6.10 Media VPs and the 3.6.10. exe from 03/28/08. I have the german version of FS2 and play over OpenGL The Textures of the Medusa and Hercules Mark II are broken, also i can't see the Hercules MK II in the TechRoom. I know there was a Hotkey to show all ships, but i forget it ^^ I hope u can help me with my textures problem, here is a screenshot:
(http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/t2kj5hk/fs2graphic.jpg) (http://img3.imagebanana.com/)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 09, 2008, 03:55:21 am
Some people have found this build (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/taylor/20071028-win32.rar) to be useful. As well as updating their graphics card's drivers. And it's Ctrl + Shift + S.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Shiku on May 09, 2008, 07:17:09 am
Anyone know where I can get a build that supports Normal maps as well as the resolution fix?

It seems I can have one or the other, but I can't find one that does both. Would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: JVLK on May 09, 2008, 10:35:39 am
Anyone know where I can get a build that supports Normal maps as well as the resolution fix?

It seems I can have one or the other, but I can't find one that does both. Would be much appreciated.

For resolution fix I believe you have to play with -fov flag value.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on May 09, 2008, 04:34:02 pm
Some people have found this build (http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/taylor/20071028-win32.rar) to be useful. As well as updating their graphics card's drivers. And it's Ctrl + Shift + S.

Ctrl + Shift + S what?

Edit: Is this build more recent than the XT one?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 09, 2008, 04:41:35 pm
Ctrl + Shift + S what?
In the Tech Room, regardless of whether you're viewing missions or ships, if you hold down Ctrl and Shift and hit S, you get them all (all the ships or all the missions depending on which ones you were viewing) visible.

Edit: Is this build more recent than the XT one?
Umm, probably not, but I know of at least one case where a person was able to effectively counter the striped textures by using this build.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on May 10, 2008, 08:19:25 am
Oh...ok thanks :yes:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 10, 2008, 11:20:12 am
Anyone know where I can get a build that supports Normal maps as well as the resolution fix?

It seems I can have one or the other, but I can't find one that does both. Would be much appreciated.
As far as I know, there is no such build that would do them both. At the moment you just have to decide which one is more important: the normal map support or the widescreen support.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Shiku on May 10, 2008, 02:57:15 pm
*sigh* Thanks Lobo.

Well I guess the normal maps it is then, I already know how to lead my targets.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 10, 2008, 10:36:35 pm
3.6.10-XT does both. (Widescreen and Normal Maps)

Xt0314-win32.rar (http://www.icculus.org/~taylor/fso/willrobinson/Xt0314-win32.rar)

You will need this to:
sdr1112.rar (http://www.icculus.org/~taylor/fso/misc/sdr1112.rar)

The shader VP goes into the mediavp's folder.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Shiku on May 10, 2008, 10:46:04 pm
Thank you Zacam!

Time to give this a spin. :D
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 11, 2008, 02:05:12 am
3.6.10-XT does both. (Widescreen and Normal Maps)
What's all this, then? Why was I not informed? I already had this build but no. I was all like "this only supports normal maps so I'll just play in 1024x768 to avoid pain". Damnation.

Ach. Thanks for pointing that out. though.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on May 12, 2008, 11:50:20 am
You will need this to:
sdr1112.rar (http://www.icculus.org/~taylor/fso/misc/sdr1112.rar)

Wouldn't he rather have sdr1119.rar (http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/misc/sdr1119.rar)?  I read at one point that was the recommended one.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 12, 2008, 01:02:17 pm
You will need this to:
sdr1112.rar (http://www.icculus.org/~taylor/fso/misc/sdr1112.rar)

Wouldn't he rather have sdr1119.rar (http://icculus.org/~taylor/fso/misc/sdr1119.rar)?  I read at one point that was the recommended one.

sdr1119 is indeed supposedly recommended version, but as I and Zacam found out rather recently it has a rather remarkable bug with nameplate rendering (http://www.mediafire.com/?m0de5dubm9d), which makes a rather strange display on ships which have nameplates (ie. almost all cap ships). Namely, the nameplate texture looks like it's being used like a shinemap (intensity changes based on the angle of lighting) instead of being a constant diffuse texture.

The sdr1113.vp introduced this problem, while it is not present in 1112. However, on my installation the normal maps don't even show while using 1112 only. I have solved this issue by shoving both sdr1112.vp and sdr1119.vp on my mediaVP's folder, which is a horrible solution but I just can't bother to cross-reference the shader effect files to find out which is the one responsible for nameplate errors, and only replace the 1119 version of it with the 1112 version... having both in same directory causes all identically named files in sdr1112.vp take precedence over the ones in sdr1119 .vp because of filenames. Ideally, I would isolate the shader responsible for making nameplate rendering break, and put just that in mediavps/data/effects/ and have just that override the faulty one in sdr1119.vp, but as I said, I just don't feel like cross-referencing different file(s) and testing which one it is that breaks things... :rolleyes:

This is, I believe, one of the reasons why XT series is indeed eXperimental series of builds. As it isn't officially supported (or, well, as official as a community based game can be supported anyways), users just need to tolerate the problems or solve them with iron wire and duct tape for the time being.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on May 12, 2008, 04:29:58 pm
So what's a good combination?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 12, 2008, 04:33:48 pm
Xt 3/14 and sdr1112.VP.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 12, 2008, 08:06:31 pm
Xt 3/14 and sdr1112.VP.

Yah. Except in case you don't see normal maps, then use sdr1112 and sdr1119 in conjunction.

sdr1119.vp should be somewhat better optimized though (by logic if nothing else anyway), so if you're tight on performance and can tolerate a big like nameplates being incorrectly shown, get just sdr1119.vp. It is, after all, the latest version. Kinda like with video card drivers, some drivers have problems with some things while previous and later ones don't have same issue (but others instead). Balancing glitch-free graphics and best performance. Though in this case, I haven't noticed notable performance changes between different shader versions, so I rather take the glitch-free  set of stuff...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 12, 2008, 08:07:54 pm
When the MediaVPs are done, do you plan to release them right away, or withhold them until SCP 3.6.10 is released?

No answer? :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 12, 2008, 09:47:06 pm
Not to be an official voice, but my _guess_ is as this:

If they are done before the EXE, we'll do some more testing for any last minute additions and release in conjunction with the exe.

If the exe is done first, a submissions freeze will take place and they will be released as soon as they are verified stable.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 12, 2008, 09:49:52 pm
But what if the VPs are done long before the exe?  My general feeling is that with the vps the end is in sight, while with the exes, the code is still in two separate branches.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on May 12, 2008, 10:22:19 pm
My logic is that Official, final release 3.6.10 VP's won't be even possible to exist before an official, final release 3.6.10 to play them with. The situation is a bit different from, say, 3.6.8 MediaVP's which got a whole string of public releases from beta to zeta (which ended up being the semi-official VP set for the FS2_Open 3.6.9 era) because it does indeed seem that in this case, the MediaVP's are ahead of the code developement and a lot of the features in 3.6.10 MediaVP's will require a 3.6.10 build... and those won't be official until they are, so MediaVP 3.6.10's can't be either.

Whether or not there will be a public Gamma release (following the current beta and preceding the final release) before FS2_Open 3.6.10 is a different matter altogether, though I would guess not - mostly because packaging an additional public test release would be a pretty unfair (and, IMO, unnecessary) workload that would undoubtedly rest on DaBrain's shoulders.


If you want moar than 3.6.10 Beta VP's contain, gather the stuff you want and integrate (or use multimultimods like I do).

So... what gives? I agree with Zacam... MediaVP content creation (like HTL models, their maps, making normal maps for ships that don't have them already, changes to effects like weapons, subspace vortices) can continue until 3.6.10 is released. After that, it should be bugfixing, packaging and playtesting and final bugfixing, then release them as soon as possible after 3.6.10 stable release build. If at all possible, co-ordinate the releases to be as simultaneous as possible.

Quote
But what if the VPs are done long before the exe?  My general feeling is that with the vps the end is in sight, while with the exes, the code is still in two separate branches.

There is no end, they can always be better... although, in this case I would say that if all the ships [models] get normal maps before 3.6.10 hits the sky, I'll be rather surprised and glad like no tomorrow. That would be a "complete" set of MediaVP's, as close as would likely be possible to get with 3.6.10. Complete in the sense that all the ships would then take advantage of the most visible graphical upgrade in the engine since shinemaps (and HT&L, but non-HTL models use shine- and normalmaps too so it's a better analogy - especially seeing how nowhere near all models have been upgraded to fully benefit fom hardware transform and lighting and it's been in the code for how long?).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on May 12, 2008, 10:56:46 pm
Ah, I see.  So you just keep improving them until the release.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on May 27, 2008, 08:15:50 pm
Could you guys clarify for me the naming convention that will be followed for nameplates in the final release?  If the file names are changing from "nameplate" and "capital01-05a" I will need to redo all campaigns I have released with the new naming convention to support the MediaVPs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 27, 2008, 09:26:30 pm
%ShipType%_%ShipName%

Ex: GTD_Bastion.dds, GTCv_Warspite.dds, NTSc_Hinton.dds.

Mind, thisi is simply what I set when I re-did the campaign nameplates. Frankly, as long as the File Name and the $New Texture: "%Name%" match, it can be whatever you want it to be. Unless you are using official campaign ships.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on May 27, 2008, 11:19:41 pm
The filename is at issue.  This has changed at least for the Orion with the elimination of the "a" suffix.  What did you do to the FS2 nameplates; it was I who made those in the current media VPs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on May 27, 2008, 11:39:29 pm
The changes in the Orion were brought about by the DDs'ing (with mip-maps) of the original ship textures. So, for the orion, the name of the texture being replaced is just minus the "a".

All others are still nameplate.

Changes made to the campaign nameplates: Unified font size with anti-aliasing applied to the font and the alpha-mask, all saved as DXT3. End results are much prettier to look at without relying on the alpha channel to mask out left-behind stuff from where the font as a bitmap had been resized. The unified font size and centering conveys a much better military precision in the nameplates application as well. I also made a nameplate for every vessel that supports nameplates that was listed in the FS2 Notable Ships Wiki entry.

The campaign missions have already been updated with all changes made. Again, the texture being replaced is only loosing the "a" in the file name if the high-poly model now has a mip-mapped base texture. Refer to the final model release texture associations in the POF's for any uncertain models. The texture for the replacement nameplate (for consitancy) should follow the example of %Class%_%Name%.dds.

*Edit: I just Finished the FS1 Named Terran Ships in the Wiki as well.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Admiral Nelson on May 28, 2008, 12:18:07 am
It would be helpful if you could post/PM the FS1 ship nameplates; I'd need these for version 3.1 of the port.  3.0 has the older style ones I made before.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wobble73 on June 06, 2008, 09:00:07 am
When the 3.6.10 becomes an official release, it may be helpful if you include a readme telling people to flush their cache folder in their data folder. A few people have reported problems that this process has fixed.

Wobble  ;)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on June 06, 2008, 10:12:59 am
Maybe we should have a -flushibx command line option under troubleshooting.  Then it could just be in the launcher.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on June 06, 2008, 11:47:04 am
One small thing that I think hasn't been mentioned before - the Ares cockpit isn't shiny.  It should use the same glass texture as the Erinyes.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on June 06, 2008, 11:59:23 am
Maybe we should have a -flushibx command line option under troubleshooting.  Then it could just be in the launcher.
No. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on June 06, 2008, 12:00:57 pm
Is it really that hard to just go and delete the IBX files yourself? :doubt:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on June 06, 2008, 12:03:31 pm
Doesn't the -pofspew kinda do that already?

I mean, creates new IBX files in all activated mod folders and overwrites the old ones? :nervous:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 06, 2008, 12:04:38 pm
Is it really that hard to just go and delete the IBX files yourself? :doubt:
For the average dumdum user, yes. At least if they have to figure it out without instructions. A mentioning in a readme could do wonders. Stressing the word "could".
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Wobble73 on June 06, 2008, 12:37:39 pm
Mind you, how many people read the read-mes?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 06, 2008, 12:45:59 pm
Stressing the word "could". I know. Most will think "Hell, I have already had a set of vps. Trust me. I know what I'm doing", followed by yet another thread about the subject. To which the people with wise will reply most angrily.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: taylor on June 06, 2008, 01:22:37 pm
The entire point of IBX files was for them to be included in VPs.  There was never supposed to be this crap of having to clean out the cache folder.  You just generate a good set of IBX files, put them in a VP, and that's the end of the story.  Having an IBX file existing outside of a VP simply means that you are doing something wrong.  This responsibility is almost entire on the mod makers of course, but individuals could fix things for themselves if they simply bothered to do it.  Remember it stands for Index Buffer eXchange: you generate it once, then distribute it to everyone else.

I added this feature as a courtesy, but years later people still refuse to use it the way it was intended.  So I simply refuse to make it easier for people to do stupid things, which is why I will never allow code to be added which makes it easier to use IBX files other than how they were intended.  And IBX files were never even supposed to exist at this point anyway, instead being included in the POF itself by something like PCS. 
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on June 06, 2008, 02:21:07 pm
Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vretsu on June 08, 2008, 12:13:03 pm
Few problems I noticed:


Probably already mentioned, but I can't be bothered to read all 28 pages.

Just thought I'd let you know, just in case. I did my part in the crusades, you know.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on June 08, 2008, 12:14:26 pm
Only BFRed beam charge up is missing for mine...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on June 08, 2008, 01:03:46 pm
What beamglows will be missing depends on what build you are using.  I know for a fact that the shivan and aaaf beamglows from Bobboau's beam set are missing from MV_Adveffects (the eff file is in there, but the actual effect files are not).  For some builds, such as 3.6.9 final, it will just use the standard mvp ones (probably because of the order that things are loaded), but for recent SVN builds, the beamglow will be missing entirely.  Haven't checked with the XT builds...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 08, 2008, 02:15:52 pm
So are the files the .eff available from somewhere? The missing warm-ups i mean, my big red is missing too.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on June 08, 2008, 02:18:10 pm
Bobboau's beams are available on FSMods.  I'm not exactly sure which files it was (I don't remember the filenames), but you should be able to figure it out pretty easily.  Also, don't do this if you aren't using AdvEffects.  If you aren't, then this isn't the problem.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 08, 2008, 02:19:14 pm
I'll grab em.
I always use adveffects. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: nubbles526 on June 17, 2008, 02:57:37 pm
I've got a problem:

!   C:\Users\Mike\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Low\Content.IE5\NNF1IW2B\MV_3_6_10_Effects[1].rar: CRC failed in MV_Effects.vp. The file is corrupt
!   C:\Users\Mike\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Low\Content.IE5\NNF1IW2B\MV_3_6_10_Effects[1].rar: Unexpected end of archive

Corrupt file Mv_effects.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 17, 2008, 03:11:09 pm
C:\Users\Mike\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Low\Content.IE5\NNF1IW2B\MV_3_6_10_Effects[1].rar: CRC failed in MV_Effects.vp. The file is corrupt
It is undoubtedly caused by Internal Exploder. Try another browser. Firefox 3, for example, was released roughly 3 hours ago.

Srsly, at what point does this occur? During download? After download? When trying to run the game?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: nubbles526 on June 17, 2008, 03:15:32 pm
Finished download, and opened WinRar. Click extract, then pop, an error.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 17, 2008, 03:16:46 pm
Redownload? 7-Zip (link in signature)?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: nubbles526 on June 17, 2008, 03:36:44 pm
Still same thing. Appears to be broken file.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 17, 2008, 03:37:33 pm
Have you tried the mirror?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 17, 2008, 03:41:58 pm
Yeah, the mirror was the only one to work for me.

And FF3 is still on release candidates.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 17, 2008, 03:48:57 pm
And FF3 is still on release candidates.
No. The final was released 4 hours ago. Check getfirefox.com if you don't believe otherwise.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 17, 2008, 04:01:07 pm
I checked 2 minutes ago and it still had the 2.0.0.14 up there. Now it's changed. Probably just DNS.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on June 18, 2008, 12:53:32 am
Firefox 3 was available at getfirefox.com and mozilla.com/firefox at 2:00 PM CDT, or just under 11 hours ago.  The launch was supposed to have been 2 hours prior but it took them 2 hours to get their servers capable of handling the load.  The addons page was non-functioning for nearly another hour after that.  They may have experienced intermittent outages after that point, but those pages did indeed point to the correct place after those times.  I just need to see if they managed to break that record.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 18, 2008, 02:42:39 am
I just need to see if they managed to break that record.
What do they need to break the record? Seems to be going at roughly 5 million at the moment.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Insomniac34 on June 19, 2008, 11:26:41 am
is there any way to just download the normal mapped ship models aspect of these MediaVPs if I want to keep everything else from early releases?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 19, 2008, 12:01:54 pm
You'd have to download the appropriate MediaVP, and then extract the files.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 19, 2008, 12:21:37 pm
A quick inspection reveals that at least Assets, Core and Effects contain models.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on June 19, 2008, 12:40:30 pm
But normal maps have to do with textures, not models.  You can extract texture-normal.dds and texture-height.dds (one may not exits) from MV_Assets.  To use them with older VPs, however, you will probably have to rename them to texturea-normal.dds and texturea-height.dds.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: General Battuta on July 20, 2008, 10:44:09 pm
Question. Will a laptop using an Intel GMA X3100 integrated graphics chipset be able to handle normal maps?

What I've read says the chipset supports Shader Model 3 (and 4.)

It's an OS X Leopard MacBook.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 21, 2008, 10:29:51 am
Try it. I doubt it will have enough power, but it will should support them.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: General Battuta on July 21, 2008, 11:47:00 am
It looks like you need updated drivers for the SM3/4 support, but I can't find them for Mac.

Oh well! It runs everything else pretty smooth (Advanced MVPs and all).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Aardwolf on July 25, 2008, 07:51:28 pm
Although I like (most) of the new effects,

something non-graphics/collision-related: in "The Romans Blunder", why the heck are the cargo containers friendly? Command yelling "invalid target! hold your fire!" never used to happen, and I am certain that the cargo containers have always until now been either neutral or hostile.

Also, somewhat off topic, but why is there no 3.6.10 option for the "version" field of mantis' error reporting screen?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Tahna Los on July 25, 2008, 10:58:33 pm
I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I'm having problem with the Loki model.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Cobra on July 25, 2008, 11:37:29 pm
What are your system specs? Those usually come in handy when reporting a graphics issue like that.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 25, 2008, 11:44:06 pm
An almost identical problem happened on page 23 of this very thread actually. That one turned out to be the graphics card overheating due to a clogged fan, but it's also possibly attributable to ATI cards, older FSO builds and possibly graphics card drivers.

So, first make sure your machine isn't overheating, then if that doesn't work or isn't the case grab a new FS build from Recent Builds. Failing that check your graphics drivers are up to date.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 25, 2008, 11:49:50 pm
What are the problem specifics / what's wrong with the Loki?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Tahna Los on July 25, 2008, 11:58:38 pm
Recently cleaned, also have the Catalyst 8.7 drivers (I have an X800 Pro).  As for FSO, I do have 3.6.9 but the version released last year.  Does anyone have a particular stable build to use with the new vps?  I've tried several, all had very weird problems.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 26, 2008, 12:24:07 am
Try the one from here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55095.0.html (remember to get the shader VP there too)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Tahna Los on July 26, 2008, 01:26:30 am
That particular build is quite slow on my machine.  Also, thruster effects are not working properly (taylor is aware of this) and ship name decals are not on the ships anymore.  Is there a more stable build than this or is there a workaround?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 28, 2008, 07:38:02 am
An almost identical problem happened on page 23 of this very thread actually. That one turned out to be the graphics card overheating due to a clogged fan, but it's also possibly attributable to ATI cards, older FSO builds and possibly graphics card drivers.

So, first make sure your machine isn't overheating, then if that doesn't work or isn't the case grab a new FS build from Recent Builds. Failing that check your graphics drivers are up to date.
Wrong, VA. It is because of a driver bug, Backlash had the same problem. I don't know what causes it, but it mysteriously disappeared a while ago. (I think). All I know is that it wasn't the fan.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Hellstryker on July 28, 2008, 08:02:15 am
He probably mentioned the fan since he said it was running slow.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 28, 2008, 08:03:32 am
It was my fan, and it had stopped running.

EDIT: That comment made me look at my fan, and it has fallen out of the heatsink. Ah well, the card has presumably been like this for weeks, and the fan didn't work properly before that, so I guess it hasn't had much effect on the card. If it means it dies in 6 months instead of 7, so be it. My parents have been hinting at a new PC anyways, so hopefully...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on July 28, 2008, 10:15:42 am
Meh, I just went with what you said. :p

Got the fan to work, and the weird lines have disappeared. Thanks.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 28, 2008, 05:41:50 pm
Well it did work, but I had to push it slightly into the right position, and it went off sometimes anyways. I left it because I didn't notice any problems.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 04:03:21 pm
EDIT3: Time for more experiments. Removing report until I can figure out exactly what's wrong.

EDIT4: Well.

Tests say that some ships (The Orion, Argo, and Iceni, for example) dislike normal maps, and they then eat up all available CPU, causing a crash.

Huh.

Using this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50258.0.html) build, but I might try one of the later ones in a bit. Don't think it's hardware related, but just in case

AMD Athlon 64 3500+
ATI Radeon X1650 Pro (Driver: Omega 3.8.442 [I should update these, shouldn't I?])
2 gig DDR2 RAM
Not entirely sure on the motherboard, but it's a Biostar K-800something

Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 05, 2008, 06:36:20 pm
Use this. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55508.0.html)

Latest trunk build that's been posted, and no other tweaks.  Any bug reports should be done based on a recent trunk build, since they're trying to wrap up 3.6.10 for a release now.  I just hope we can get another MVP beta before 3.6.10, so we can make sure there aren't bugs in one or the other.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on August 05, 2008, 07:26:54 pm
I just hope we can get another MVP beta before 3.6.10, so we can make sure there aren't bugs in one or the other.

There was talk of a gamma release.  The main problem was organizing it, since that is not an easy task, and it would probably fall on DaBrain to do it :(
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 08:03:59 pm
Use this. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55508.0.html)

Latest trunk build that's been posted, and no other tweaks.  Any bug reports should be done based on a recent trunk build, since they're trying to wrap up 3.6.10 for a release now.  I just hope we can get another MVP beta before 3.6.10, so we can make sure there aren't bugs in one or the other.

Well, with this build normal maps just don't work at all, flag checked or no. I remember trying it earlier.


Would that be considered a bug? :P

EDIT: I'll try this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55095.0.html) one, maybe that'll solve the problem.

EDIT2: Same problem. Normal maps simply don't work. Needs to be an actual Xt release or nothing.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 05, 2008, 08:18:45 pm
Sorry, since you were using such an old build, I forgot.  The shaders aren't built in anymore, you have to download the shaders vp file too, and put that in your FS directory.  The build I linked you to is essentially what's in the one you just referenced, and some other bugfixing since then.  Plus it was after Taylor added it to the main source base.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 08:19:44 pm
^^I had tried the one you linked me to, and just to make sure I tried it again. Nothing. With either of the shader VPs (the simply named shaders.vp or the sdr1119.vp)^^

Got both the old shaders VP and the new VP in there. Tried one, then the other, then both together. Nothing.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 05, 2008, 08:23:44 pm
What's in the fs2_open.log?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 08:25:52 pm
An old crash, nothing recent. The game doesn't "crash", per say, it just eats all CPU and does nothing with it, forcing a ctrl-alt-del out. Lock was the term I should have used.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 05, 2008, 08:28:30 pm
Are you running a debug build?  It should just dump output to it.  Use one, and maybe even turn on the debug window.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 08:34:42 pm
Warning: Too many beam sections for weapon BFRed - max is 5
File: Weapons.cpp
Line: 3021


Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    parse_weaponstbl()    parse_modular_table()    weapon_init()    game_init()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()    kernel32.dll 7c816fd7()
------------------------------------------------------------------


This is new. Debug EXE of the latest trunk build, that is, one without the locking problem. Now, the standard EXE just goes on it's merry way and plops me at mainhall. Debug EXE gets a nice instacrash.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 05, 2008, 08:37:28 pm
Try no mods, and see if the debug output tells you anything about whether or not OpenGL loads successfully.  It should, and if it does it's probably a MediaVPs bug.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 08:45:56 pm
Well, no mods, loaded everything up just fine. Looked at a few models in the tech room, then quit. Although it did say my ships and weapons tables were invalid, but A: I haven't touched them and B: they have nothing to do with OpenGL at all.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 05, 2008, 08:46:53 pm
One thing though, that error doesn't help much. Post the fs2_open.log from\data.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 05, 2008, 08:50:50 pm
K.

I believe this is what you wanted? (http://mechmantis.googlepages.com/fs2_open.log)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 05, 2008, 09:07:11 pm
Corrupt VP? Run the FSO Installer and it will replace corrupt files.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 05, 2008, 11:10:21 pm
That or, you have some tables in your main fs2\data\tables folder.  You shouldn't really have much of anything in that data folder, especially tables.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 06, 2008, 12:13:52 pm
Empty. But we should probably take further discussion of this rather interesting table-based crash to PMs, as it only happens using a debug build and it has nothing to do with the Media VPs.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 06, 2008, 12:25:37 pm
it only happens using a debug build and it has nothing to do with the Media VPs.
:wtf: Yeah, debug builds tend to crash. They are not meant for casual playing. They are meant for bug-hunting.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 06, 2008, 12:30:21 pm
it only happens using a debug build and it has nothing to do with the Media VPs.
:wtf: Yeah, debug builds tend to crash. They are not meant for casual playing. They are meant for bug-hunting.

I know that but the bug we found has nothing to do with the original problem. :P
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on August 06, 2008, 01:56:56 pm
If a debug build crashes, then there is usually something wrong...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 06, 2008, 02:18:44 pm
If a debug build crashes, then there is usually something wrong...

Yup.  The debug builds get a bad rep because they break when running mods that are broken, but work with the more forgiving regular builds, at least for the time being.  However, another bug fix or a small adjustment might change that, when if the mod had been done right, it wouldn't have been a problem.  Sadly the beta MVPs appear quite broken, and a newer set hasn't been released yet.  They'll work sometimes on a regular build, without too much trouble, but you can't be sure any issues are the build's fault when they do stop working.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 06, 2008, 02:55:12 pm
I just thought of something.


Where are the shader VPs supposed to live? I've tried both in the root FS2 folder and in the mediavp folder. The problem could be that I'm putting the shaders in the wrong spot.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 06, 2008, 04:17:55 pm
You want them in the root folder, otherwise they'd only be loaded when you use the MediaVPs as a mod.  If it can't find the shaders it will disable GLSL I believe.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: MechMantis on August 06, 2008, 05:00:54 pm
Then I have no clue what could be wrong. Neither of the trunk builds I've tried work (Yours (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55508.0.html) and taylor's (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55095.0.html)), with either shader VP in either location.

I'll try redownloading the MV_Assets.VP tonight, but the normal maps work on the old XT build (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50258.0.html) so I have no clue what's wrong.

EDIT: I might have accidentally hit the "Notify" button, mistaking it for the "Modify" button. If that was the case, I am sorry, Mods. >.<
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Romanmolf on August 09, 2008, 01:08:27 pm
Error: Ravana Thruster Glows are offset from the rear of the vessel. Might want to fix that.

Moreover, my weponds go through some parts of the Ravana's hull. Maybe there is a mass (I don't know if that's the name of the word) offset as well.

If there is, is there anyway to repair it?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Droid803 on August 09, 2008, 01:15:06 pm
Yes, there is a fix, see this link:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55299.0.html

edit: sorry...someone (please) make it clear that there is a fixed pof...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 09, 2008, 06:40:57 pm
Dude, not everyone knows what causes these problems, or is as FS-savvy as some of us. Lighten up.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on August 09, 2008, 08:54:28 pm
Oh hey I can modify anyones post in this forum. Added the ravana pof link to DaB's first post in this thread. :D

And yeah - Droid, please be more welcoming to the newbies. The search feature on HLP is not great, and they might not know exactly what they'd be looking for. Also this is still a beta release, so they're quite right to report errors they find here. Don't scare them off. :p
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Droid803 on August 09, 2008, 09:16:47 pm
Sorry. I snapped again. I'll go fix up that post.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on August 09, 2008, 11:28:04 pm
Oh hey ... it's that one on my site ... which I can't edit anymore since I switched ISPs :nervous:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Droid803 on August 10, 2008, 12:02:08 pm
Well, that's the one you pointed me to the first time :P
(also, then I guess the "Destiny" thing is stuck too?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on August 10, 2008, 01:51:33 pm
Yup.  I can remove all links to that when I want to though...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 10, 2008, 07:44:08 pm
For full quality you will have to use taylor's most recent XT builds.
Normal maps are standard in Trunk builds now, you probably know this.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on August 10, 2008, 10:14:01 pm
For full quality you will have to use taylor's most recent XT builds.
Normal maps are standard in Trunk builds now, you probably know this.

Dude, he posted that 8 months ago.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 10, 2008, 10:29:04 pm
I know, I meant that he should edit the post.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on August 12, 2008, 12:28:15 am
Err ... not sure if this has been reported, but the normal maps for the Hatshepsut's two main tile textures (the scaly ones) seem to have some data around their edges which causes a border to appear around the whole texture.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: NekroJakub on August 12, 2008, 07:16:48 am
Excuse me, (first post) but is there any known solution for the Shivan charge-up beam orbs problem? It's the only thing that doesn't work for me with MediaVPs 3.6.10.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 08:09:11 am
Get Bobboau's High-Res Beams (the "Make FSO Look Pretty" topic in my sig) and put the .VP in \mediavps.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: NekroJakub on August 12, 2008, 09:54:08 am
I downloaded those beams and copied the contents of the data folder to my mediavps/data folder (there was no .vp there), but now I get errors when I try to start FS2:

Error: bob-wep.tbm(line 138:
Error: Required token = [#End] or [$Name:], found [+Length:               1500               ]
in weapon: BGreen.

File: parselo.cpp
Line: 670


Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    fs2_open_3_6_10r-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 004a79eb()
    fs2_open_3_6_10r-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 0054bccc()
------------------------------------------------------------------

I get a couple more errors, keep clicking OK and FS2 launches and the problem is indeed gone. Any way to get rid of those? I guess it's my build...
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 09:55:31 am
Run a debug build, and post \data\fs2_open.log
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: NekroJakub on August 12, 2008, 10:03:03 am
Okay, I chose the debug build, error showed up and asked if I want to go into Debugger or continue, I chose continue two times, then another error where I had no choice, press OK and go into Debugger or cancel, so I pressed OK and it crashed. If I chose to go into debugger on the first question it crashed too. My log looks like this atm:

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.10
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 11
  -ogl_spec 80
  -spec_static .8
  -spec_point .6
  -spec_tube .4
  -ambient_factor 0
  -env
  -mipmap
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -spec
  -no_emissive_light
  -normal
  -mod mediavps
Building file index...
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_AdvancedEffects.vp' with a checksum of 0x2908d12e
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_Assets.vp' with a checksum of 0x92e27b4a
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_Core.vp' with a checksum of 0x7b8f4d7e
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_Effects.vp' with a checksum of 0xc55a3e9f
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\mv_music.vp' with a checksum of 0xbbd92e16
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\shaders.vp' with a checksum of 0xe13995b9
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp' with a checksum of 0x84396e99
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\multi-mission-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0x377695e0
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\multi-voice-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0xd50e7442
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\Root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\shaders.vp' with a checksum of 0xe13995b9
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\' ... 348 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_AdvancedEffects.vp' ... 2411 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1768 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_Core.vp' ... 92 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\MV_Effects.vp' ... 1108 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\mv_music.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\mediavps\shaders.vp' ... 69 files
Searching root 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\' ... 151 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\multi-mission-pack.vp' ... 110 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\multi-voice-pack.vp' ... 307 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\Root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\shaders.vp' ... 69 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'D:\freespace 2\freespace\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Found 21 roots and 13470 files.
AutoLang: Language auto-detection successful...
Setting language to English
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_strings-lcl.tbm' ...
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Software' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Failed to init speech
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 1680x1050 with 32-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : NVIDIA Corporation
  OpenGL Renderer   : GeForce 8800 GTS/PCI/SSE2
  OpenGL Version    : 2.1.2

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_NV_vertex_program3".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Compiling shader ->  null-v.sdr / null-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  b-v.sdr / b-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  b-v.sdr / bg-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / lb-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / lbg-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / lbgs-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / lbs-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  le-v.sdr / lbgse-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  le-v.sdr / lbse-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lbgn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lbgsn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lbn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lbsn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lne-v.sdr / lbgsne-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lne-v.sdr / lbsne-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lf-v.sdr / lfb-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lf-v.sdr / lfbg-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lf-v.sdr / lfbgs-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lf-v.sdr / lfbs-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfe-v.sdr / lfbgse-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfe-v.sdr / lfbse-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfn-v.sdr / lfbgn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfn-v.sdr / lfbgsn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfn-v.sdr / lfbn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfn-v.sdr / lfbsn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfne-v.sdr / lfbgsne-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lfne-v.sdr / lfbsne-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / null-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / lg-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / lgs-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  l-v.sdr / ls-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  le-v.sdr / lgse-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  le-v.sdr / lse-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lgn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lgsn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / ln-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  ln-v.sdr / lsn-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lne-v.sdr / lgsne-f.sdr ...
  Compiling shader ->  lne-v.sdr / lsne-f.sdr ...

  Max texture units: 4 (32)
  Max elements vertices: 1048576
  Max elements indices: 1048576
  Max texture size: 8192x8192
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
  Using GLSL for model rendering.
  Shader Version: 1.20 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 705 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 40 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_adveffects-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI 2_radar1 with size 209x170 (33.6% wasted)
Windoze reported 16 joysticks, we found 0
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 64 frames at 35 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (ExpMissileHit1.eff) with 44 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp05.eff) with 47 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06.eff) with 48 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp04.eff) with 60 frames at 20 fps.
ANI Lamprey_Impact with size 80x80 (37.5% wasted)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Gmuzzle.eff) with 5 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (PWmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Rmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Bmuzzle.eff) with 5 frames at 30 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_flak-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_tech-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_models-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_missiles-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_shockwave-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_adveffects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'beams2-wep.tbm' ...
WARNING: "Too many beam sections for weapon BFRed - max is 5" at weapons.cpp:3021
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'beams1-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bob-wep.tbm' ...
WARNING: "Too many beam sections for weapon BGreen - max is 5" at weapons.cpp:3021
bob-wep.tbm(line 138:Error: Required token = [#End] or [$Name:], found [+Length: 1500 ]
in weapon: BGreen.
ERROR: bob-wep.tbm(line 138:
Error: Required token = [#End] or [$Name:], found [+Length: 1500 ]
in weapon: BGreen.

File: parselo.cpp
Line: 670
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 0096ae10()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 008fcc46()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 00971b01()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 008ff0f5()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 00729dc2()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 00736a29()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 00736d9e()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 00c7cf76()
    fs2_open_3_6_10d-20080731_CHIEF_4731.exe 00c7cdff()
    kernel32.dll 7c816d4f()
Int3(): From f:\storage\fso\fs2_open\code\globalincs\windebug.cpp at line 1230
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 12, 2008, 10:04:24 am
Open up the .tbm(s) that came with the beams. Remove +Length lines from the tbm where ever you find them.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: NekroJakub on August 12, 2008, 10:24:15 am
It worked. No errors. Thanks! Now my Freespace 2 experience will be complete. I really love what the community did with this game. It's like a 2009 game now.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ShadowGorrath on August 12, 2008, 11:45:57 am
Not sure if it was noted already, just thought you'd wanna know:
The subspace tunnel high detailed textures are in the Effects section, while they should be in Maps!
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on August 12, 2008, 11:51:23 am
it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2008, 01:34:45 pm
I really, really like the new explosion effects in the Advanced VPs, particularly the flash of orange light just as a ship explodes. It's really beautiful and adds to the coherence of the explosion.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Rick James on August 12, 2008, 06:09:58 pm
I've got a graphical issue.

The beam effects in MVPs 3.6.10 look awesome for me for the most part, with the exception of Shivan beams.

Clicky for pic. (http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7849/shivanbeambuglf9.png)

The 'beam charge' graphic looks fine, but the actual beam...ehhh, not so much.

I'm using version 3.6.9 of the FreeSpace Open Launcher. Should I try getting a newer build?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 06:13:50 pm
Wrong. You've been using the 3.6.9 FreeSpace executable, a 5.5_ version of the launcher. Get the reccomended build and Launcher 5.5d from my sig.

As for the beams, they're supposed to look like that.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Topgun on August 12, 2008, 06:15:22 pm
you sure? mine don't.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 06:18:36 pm
You use the AdVPs? Mine look like that, although I've only seen them in the nebula, so I thought that that was how they'd look on a black background.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on August 12, 2008, 06:19:31 pm
I've got a graphical issue.

The beam effects in MVPs 3.6.10 look awesome for me for the most part, with the exception of Shivan beams.

Clicky for pic. (http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7849/shivanbeambuglf9.png)

The 'beam charge' graphic looks fine, but the actual beam...ehhh, not so much.

I'm using version 3.6.9 of the FreeSpace Open Launcher. Should I try getting a newer build?

That seems to happen with 3.6.9 builds.  Something about the loading order being different.  Try a 3.6.10 trunk build (yes, these builds are stable).
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Rick James on August 12, 2008, 06:54:23 pm
After getting a new build of the launcher and executable, the Shivan beam effects seem to be more or less normal, with the exception that the charge animation appears to have been borked and no longer works. Also there appear to be several missing textures on certain vessels like the Orion:

Clicky (http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8941/orionmissingtexturesjf1.png)

My system specs are:

Dell Inspiron 9400 Core Duo @ 1.73 Ghz
2 GBs RAM, unknown model, @ 533 Mhz
Geforce Go 7900 GS Graphics Card

Under the "Video" Tab on the launcher, I currently use the following settings:

Graphics: Direct3D 8
Adapter: NVIDIA Go 7900 GS
Resolution: 1024 x 768
Color Depth: 32-bit
Antialiasing: D3DMULTISAMPLE_4_SAMPLES

No additional options such as large textures, mipmapping, glowmaps, or environmental maps are being used.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 07:32:35 pm
There's the problem. Switch to OpenGL graphics.

Also, update your GPU drivers.

The charge animation is missing from the Betas, downoad Bobboau's Hi-Res Beams from the "Make FSO Pretty" link in my sig.

The beams come with .TBM files, open them and remove any lines that say "+ Length".
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Turambar on September 15, 2008, 06:53:34 am
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2cpyes6.jpg)

thought it should be pointed out, the edges of this tiling texture are in the normal map, and it looks bad.  is this fixed or should i fix it?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 15, 2008, 08:40:41 am
[image]

thought it should be pointed out, the edges of this tiling texture are in the normal map, and it looks bad.  is this fixed or should i fix it?

I've been working on the Sobek/Hatshepsut tile normal maps; I'm still in the process of fixing the one that the Sobek's midsection uses (it's been in a limbo for a while, haven't just had the drive to finish it to be honest -_-) but the rest are available from here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ybumc1ymjy3). Use at your discretion, they are a bit different from the older ones, they look like this:

(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/527/hatshepsutnewnormals1ol0.png)
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6223/sobeknewnormals3hj1.png)



Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on September 15, 2008, 10:12:18 am
That's a pretty hot Sobek.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Mobius on September 21, 2008, 04:32:09 am
I missed most part of this topic...I have a quick question: are the new mediavps worth DLing or there are too many things to fix at the moment? I DLed them before my computer tried and I don't know if the game is still somewhat "compromised" with them. There's a graphical issue mentioned above but I don't really care about that kind of problems - I want to know if I risk crashes or un-hittable ships during the game. :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on September 22, 2008, 04:05:45 am
That's a pretty hot Sobek.

I'll say.....
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 22, 2008, 04:19:15 pm
I like 'em :yes: the asteroids are pretty enough to warrant downloading all on their own.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: neoterran on October 11, 2008, 01:53:04 am
those new maps on the sobek look about a billion times better than the plastic look the old ones had. Now it looks like a real ship again.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: starfox on October 11, 2008, 05:57:06 am
Agreed!  :yes:
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jadehawk on October 11, 2008, 03:30:24 pm
OK, downloaded all 4 VP files, cleaned out all .vp files but the FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp in the main Freespeac2 Directory. Note, I did NOT delete any of the other folders such as Blueplanet, etc. I then Moved all the current files in the mediavps folder into a backup file. Then I extracted all 4 new vp files into this folder. I updated my launcher to the new 5.5d version and selected the mediavps folder as my MOD in the launcher selection.

When I went to launch the game, an error message popped up saying it could not find the web cursor. I selected the debug feature, but then there is all kinds of crap that wont load correctly after that which I think is due to the first one.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on October 11, 2008, 03:33:30 pm
cleaned out all .vp files but the FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp in the main Freespeac2 Directory.
:sigh: Why?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jadehawk on October 11, 2008, 03:35:43 pm
because that's what the readme file said to do.

Here's what the readme files says:

=====(2) Installation:

First make sure that no older MediaVPs are left in your Freespace 2 directory. The only VP that can be left in your Freespace 2 directory is the FS2cutscenepack.vp.
Do not use the mv_cell.vp. It is currently not suported.

Extract the new MediaVP files to a new folder, named "MediaVP", in your Freespace 2 directory. Use the launcher to select this directory as Mod.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on October 11, 2008, 03:37:25 pm
Unless DaBrain has a taste for utterly stupid and frustrating practical jokes, the readme most definitely does not say such things. Please quote the phrase from the readme that drove you into taking this action.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jadehawk on October 11, 2008, 03:39:12 pm
See above :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: chief1983 on October 11, 2008, 03:40:58 pm
That is poorly worded.  Any vps starting with mv_ are mediavp files.  They should not be in your main FS2 folder.   The ogg cutscenes can stay there, but any other VPs that came with FS2 should stay in the main FS2 folder.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jeff Vader on October 11, 2008, 03:41:09 pm
Ah, it was separately there. K.

Quote
First make sure that no older MediaVPs are left in your Freespace 2 directory.
It says MediaVPs. Retail files can and must be left alone. They are most crucial if you want to play FS2/FSO.

Quote
The only VP that can be left in your Freespace 2 directory is the FS2cutscenepack.vp.
Though I must admit that this part can be misleading.

Edit: Well, I'll be damned. Someone actually beat me to it this time.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Jadehawk on October 11, 2008, 03:53:19 pm
ok great! thanks fellas :) got the 3.6.10 Beta working :)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Flaming_Sword on October 15, 2008, 06:35:06 am
Sorry if this has already been answered (I didn't feel like slogging through 34 pages of posts), but are the asterod3.dds textures missing?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Knarfe1000 on October 15, 2008, 06:50:43 am
Can you say how long we have to wait for the final version?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Zacam on October 15, 2008, 10:26:47 am
Flaming Sword: They are, ish. you can copy any of the others and rename for now.

Knarfe1000: So far as I know, we have been given a deadline and I know we are really _really_ damn close to done. We realize that people and mod's are waiting and we are all working as quickly as we can and that Real Life will allow us to. I for one appreciate the patience (frustrated that it may be) of everyone waiting. You'll find it has been worth it. (And I hope the others don't mind me using "we" a lot. :-) )
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Knarfe1000 on October 15, 2008, 11:59:09 am
I´ll be patient...didn´t know there is a deadline...good to hear you´re "damn near". No doubt it will be worth some more waiting-time.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Flaming_Sword on October 15, 2008, 07:10:25 pm
Will do. Thanks.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Arkangel on October 19, 2008, 06:55:00 pm
Im a little confused, do i keep the 3.6.8. mediavps in the same mediavp folder or just simply replace them with the 3.6.10. ones?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 19, 2008, 07:32:07 pm
Im a little confused, do i keep the 3.6.8. mediavps in the same mediavp folder or just simply replace them with the 3.6.10. ones?

Definitely replace. Or, rename the old folder to mediavps_368zeta or something, and make a new mediavps folder for the 3.6.10 VP's.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: ShivanSpS on October 21, 2008, 07:52:25 pm
Hi ppl, has been some time...

I windering if there is any fix around for the Shivan beam glows.?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: blowfish on October 21, 2008, 08:18:34 pm
There isn't.  You'll have to fix it yourself, using one of the methods described previously in this thread.
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 09, 2008, 02:03:49 am
Unstickied as 3.6.10 is out at last! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,58230.0.html)
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: GTSVA on December 09, 2008, 08:08:54 pm
Woo...does this mean the thread it going to be locked?
Title: Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Post by: Galemp on December 09, 2008, 11:11:06 pm
Do you want it to be?