Author Topic: Palestinian PM quits after poll  (Read 5166 times)

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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Palestinian PM quits after poll

Oh, ok, so what you're saying is that the suicide bombers' death cry being "Allah hu akbar", the crowd chants of "Jihad, Jihad, Jihad!", and the declarations of intent to wipe out the infidels... none of that has ANYthing to do with their religion?? Dude, pardon me, but wake the hell up.

No, not all Muslims are terrorist. Not all Arabs are terrorists. And not all terrorists are Muslims. Or Arabs. But the facts speak for themselves, if you (this is a general "you", not specifically singling you out, Aldo) would be willing to listen.

Do we say Christians are bound to be evil torturers because of the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition?  Or because Hitler believed God was behind him?  Or we just regard them as a group of nutcases seeking devine justification for committing evil acts, and a promise of heaven so as to recruit?  Are you sure it's not just easier to blame Islam than to introspect on the mistakes made? 

I also wonder; these people are the dominant ethnic group of that area - would you oppose the concept of them having self-determination?  And another thing I wondered - why is it even important to keep these areas?  Especially when they will - seemingly - always remain hostile.

Pardon me for being so presumptous, but I do believe that of all the people on HLP, I am the only one who experienced at least some (not all, obviously) of the interaction between the IDF and the Palestinians. So unless you're so naive as to think that you actually can get a better picture of the situation through 30 seconds of footage from the directed and focussed lens of a news team's camera than I saw in 3+ years of actually being there, I'll kindly ask you to take my word on the accuracy of the perception portrayed in that cartoon. If you don't like it, you're perfectly free to hop on a plane and observe things for yourself.

The accuracy of the perception as portrayed in that children's cartoon is about %5. Yes, there have been Palestinian children killed. The circumstances of those deaths, however, are never what you are led to believe by the Western media.

Please don't start this 'blame the Western media' stuff.  That's exactly what I was pointing out previously about how easy it is to assume your viewpoint is the only or correct one because it's close to your heart.  Tell me, when you were with the IDF, how often would you talk to Palestinians?  And when you did, were you armed?  Were you in an IDF (military) uniform or accompanied with other troops?  Do you know any Palestinians who have had family members killed by the IDF, either intentionally or by accident?  Do you know anyone from a refugee camp who has had their home bulldozed?

Now, I am not condoning any sort of praise or encouragement for suicide bombing.  That's wrong; any killing, any act of violence committed for revenge is, regardless of the cause or justification, and I believe I've made that very clear in several occasions.  What I am saying is, if you strip out their propagandistic endorsement of one side, and instead add in the diamtrically opposed counterpoint, you have a better picture of what the motivations are, why people are hating others.

I don't expect you to be able to see their side; people are blowing themselves up and murdering in the name of these people, attacking your country, why would you even want to?  But if you want to ever stop this, you have to understand what drives not just the nutcases with a bomb-belt, but the more rational people who still tacitly or silently support it.

EDIT; in any case, I remember Gank having had family visit there to make a documentary, and he was a lot harsher in his opinion of Israel than I am or would be.  I note that a lot of the 'western media' you are so fond of criticising tend to have people on both sides of the fence, as it were (actually, I think that phrase can be literal now); I'd also note that they have no reason to be biased - or are you implying they're pandering to some hidden vast majority of Palestinian immigrants into the predominantly Christian + white Western world?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2006, 11:19:00 am by aldo_14 »

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Palestinian PM quits after poll
Ahh, damn. I had this nice big reply typed up, hit preview, got distracted by someone, and closed the tab.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Palestinian PM quits after poll
Ahh, damn. I had this nice big reply typed up, hit preview, got distracted by someone, and closed the tab.

Curses, eh?

Let's call it a difference of opinion and let it rest; I don't think we'll ever be able to sort of look at our opposing opinion (in this) in the same way as we see our own, because of the way we form these things..... plus, I have too many huge arguments going on already :D