Author Topic: Tomorrow is 9/11  (Read 11874 times)

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Offline Ashrak

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any war that starts between any major powers is a sure anahilation of the entire race, so you better settle with peace ....
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Offline karajorma

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Crap no, you're right.  I haven't been proofreading.  The point I was trying to make is that Al Qaeda was primarily based in Afghanistan, tied to the ruling party, and therefore the the most logical target for military retaliation against a body that proved willing an able to attack the US.

Maybe but 6 years later the US still don't have Osama Bin Laden do they? Ironic considering that they might have done had they actually done what the Taliban had asked and provided evidence Bin Laden was behind the attack. And if they provided the evidence and the Taliban still didn't hand him over it would only have strengthened their justification for an invasion.
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Offline Hades

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About ground zero, I just heard today that they are going to build a tower called I think "The Freedom tower.( :ick:)
It will be the largest building they said.
They started in 2006. :shaking:
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Offline Scuddie

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God dammit.

It would be one thing to call it the WTC Memorial, but The Freedom Tower?  **** me in the anus, I'm leaving this wretched country.
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Offline Mars

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IDC about the name

It's not going to be any taller than the WTC towers

 

Offline Desert Tyrant

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any war that starts between any major powers is a sure anahilation of the entire race, so you better settle with peace ....

AH, somebody who can't type english worth a ****, how lovely. 

I'd love to see some proof that a war between the major powers = humanity instantly dies off.




 

Offline karajorma

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I suspect his Estonian is better than yours somehow though.
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Offline DiabloRojo

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What other use is there for chemical weapons?
Please read that again, and if necessary google the Iraq-Iran War.  The weapons sold were for use AGAINST MILITARY FORCES IN THEIR WAR WITH IRAN.  Mustard Gas was a WW1 staple, after all.

Maybe but 6 years later the US still don't have Osama Bin Laden do they? Ironic considering that they might have done had they actually done what the Taliban had asked and provided evidence Bin Laden was behind the attack. And if they provided the evidence and the Taliban still didn't hand him over it would only have strengthened their justification for an invasion.
Do you think they really would have just handed him over, even if they could have?  I can't imagine they would have ever honestly cooperated with the US even when it was to save themselves, with Jesse Jackson and Jimmy Carter there to promise them the world.   We know the things of which these people are (or were) capable and they hate(d) the US as much as Bin Laden which is why they let him operate there in the first place.  Yes, this is all speculative, but you opened that door. ;)

I hate that I'm posting this now that this has gone back to a 'happier' tone, but eh, you guys deserve responses.

 
It's not a quesiton of "handing him over". It's doubtful that Bin Laden would be that cooperative. The US just wanted the Taliban to cease supporting Al Qaeda. Even then, Bush would have invaded anyway so that he wouldn't be percieved as sitting on his hands; Bin Laden had a strong organization set up in Afghanistan and the Taliban was no position to oppose it.

Al Qaeda provided a lot of support to the Taliban in its fight against the NA. Most of the Taliban's foreign fighters, the reliable ones who were more than just tribal militias, were supplied by Al Qaeda. So whether the US provided "proof" or not that Bin Laden was responsible, the Taliban wouldn't cooperate anyway, as a matter of survival.

I think Karajorma just needs some coffee. So do I. My monitor is roasting my eyeballs right now.

 

Offline Ghostavo

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What other use is there for chemical weapons?
Please read that again, and if necessary google the Iraq-Iran War.  The weapons sold were for use AGAINST MILITARY FORCES IN THEIR WAR WITH IRAN.  Mustard Gas was a WW1 staple, after all.

Isn't any use of chemical weapons considered an atrocity?
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Offline DiabloRojo

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Well, pretty much only since they were banned by the Geneva Convention.  I don't think Iraq and Iran had accepted that at the time, leaving a lovely little loophole.

But hell, I ignore the Geneva Convention on a daily basis during commutes.

 
do you watch FoxNews DiabloRojo?

btw, Saddaam didn't produce the weapons of mass destruction,  he bought them.  from the US.

see, the US didn't like Iran's (democratically elected) government, so they assassinated the leader and planted in a new guy.  the result of this is that Iran (the government at least) does not like the US very much. 


as for why the rest of that area despises the US?

ISRAEL.


(also relevant, the US cut funding for Palestine's democratically elected government, and is backing the other faction.  way to export Freedom to the world right?)

I'd like to point out that the Iran Iraq war, the period of time in which the U.S. sold Saddam weapons, was in the 80's.  Shortly after that, in 1991, the U.S. fought the Gulf War against Saddam.  Which means, that for at least 16 years, we haven't given any weapons to Saddam.  Also, even accordind to Iranian sources, the US was not a leader in loaning checical weapons to Iraq.

Also, although Israel is a factor, many of the countries in the Middle East do not like us simple bacause of our continued meddling in their affairs.

 

Offline IceFire

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any war that starts between any major powers is a sure anahilation of the entire race, so you better settle with peace ....
Hrmm....well...in the last century there was two major wars between most of the major powers on the planet and the end result was a population boom that you might sometimes hear about called the "baby boom".  Lots of people who are about 16-27 right now are the echo of that boom time after WWII.  Wars are absolutely terrible and destructive things and yet out of the ashes often rises even more people.   

The concern since the 1950s is the use of nuclear weapons which could lead to planetary devastation...fortunately nobody really feels compelled to use strategic nuclear weapons as the end result is always bad for everyone.  The major powers of the day feel pretty good about fighting wars by proxy through local combatants and never in direct opposition to each other.  Prime examples of this are Korea, Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80s.  These again, were terrible, but largely regional and not impacting the entire world in any sort of population way.

Even if we did manage to nuke ourselves...it would probably end modern civilization but I doubt that it would end the human species.  There are too many of us in too many corners of the globe that would survive, in some cases despite all odds, and eventually we'd be back where were before.  I hope never to see that come to pass but I have some faith that life will go on one way or another...people and life in general on this planet are resilient to most things save total planetary destruction or utter ecological failure.
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Offline achtung

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Offline Kosh

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Appearently there is a special day just for this-----"Patriot's Day"



http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=Mjc5ODksLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=


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Today is Patriot Day, the sixth anniversary of September 11th, 2001. We have not forgotten the impact those attacks had on our country and our lives. Please, take a moment today to remember those who lost their lives on that day, their families and loved ones. Also, make sure that you give thanks to the men and women of the military, law enforcement and emergency services that are laying their lives on the line every day to make sure we are not attacked again. They are true patriots and this day belongs to them.



As we remember September 11, 2001, we reaffirm the vows made in the earliest hours of our grief and anger. As liberty's home and defender, America will not tire, will not falter, and will not fail in fighting for the safety and security of the American people and a world free from terrorism. We will continue to bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to them. This Patriot Day, we hold steady to this task.


EDIT: forgot to reply to this

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It's the fault of BOTH. Never forget it.

The fact that US soldiers should be on Iraqi soil doesn't give the insurgents the right to kill them. Lets not forget that they'd have packed up and gone home a couple of years ago if the insurgents had just sat on their hands and done nothing. The insurgents want to fight for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with getting American troops out of Iraq.

The insurgency certainly is more than just going after Americans, but considering that there never was a plan to remove US soldiers to begin with I highly doubt they would be home by now, especially considering the large number of military bases being built (and that fortress of an embassy).

But really, what do you expect when you walk into a room full of gunpowder and start smoking?

« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 05:46:11 am by Kosh »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Hrmm....well...in the last century there was two major wars between most of the major powers on the planet and the end result was a population boom that you might sometimes hear about called the "baby boom".  Lots of people who are about 16-27 right now are the echo of that boom time after WWII.  Wars are absolutely terrible and destructive things and yet out of the ashes often rises even more people.

One of the things that people tend not to realize is that, speaking from a practical standpoint, the use of nuclear ordinance was not in fact necessary for the US to have inflicted the kind of massive, millions-dead-conservatively damage normally associated with mushroom clouds. Russia undertook several massive hydroelectric power projects, resulting in series of large dams.

The US developed the Tomahawk and B-2 for very specific targets intially. In the event of a general war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact, the only thing that would have stood between millions of Russian citizens and being drowned in a flash-flood when those dams broke was the possiblity that loss of life on that scale might trigger a nuclear response...and realistically speaking, NATO could not have reached all the Soviet ICBM/SLBMs in time.

This scenario is alive and well, by the way. China has undertaken similar projects...and unlike Russia, China's strategic nuclear deterrent is small enough to kill it all before it can retaliate. Should the People's Republic ever decide Taiwan would look better with some black glass, this is probably a more likely, but no less devastating, scenario then a US nuclear response.

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