Author Topic: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps  (Read 53328 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
I'm going to stick with Nate Silver and believe that Trump can't win despite current perception.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
I agree that blanket "ban on muslims" is idiotic, but permissive and unregulated immigration policies are much bigger liability in War on Terror than Trumps statements ever could be. Something should be done.
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Offline The E

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
In the other thread, we were talking about this exact thing: Bigotry and Xenophobia in the west being used by terrorist recruiters to get more people to sign up. We were citing it as a major reason why giving in to those things, even in the smallest of ways, is a stupid idea. And yet, here you are again, with the same idiocy.

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
In the other thread, we were talking about this exact thing: Bigotry and Xenophobia in the west being used by terrorist recruiters to get more people to sign up. We were citing it as a major reason why giving in to those things, even in the smallest of ways, is a stupid idea. And yet, here you are again, with the same idiocy.


This is definitely not so cut and dried as you paint it, its a tradeoff. If islamophobia in the west causes some additional % of muslims to radicalize, but also causes the immigration policy to tighten so that the pool of muslims to recuit from will be smaller compared to situation with free immigration, then the net result can very well be less extremism than in situation with free immigration and no islamophobia. A slightly higher percentage from a smaller pool can result in less overall extremism than slightly lower percentage from a bigger pool (depending on the exact numbers).

And even if we agreed that less islamophobia would lead to less radicalism, that ship has sailed and most likely wont be coming back. You simply cannot expect people to have regular islamist attacks in their countries without getting more islamophobic - that might work with robots, but not real people with real emotions. If the current situation of regular islamist terrorist attacks is the new normal, islamophobia in Europe will only increase, not decrease. Unrealistic solution, (decreasing islamophobia to achieve a little lower radicalization rate), is not better than no solution at all. And I think the effectiveness of such solution would be limited anyway - islamophobia is definitely not the only or even biggest driver of radicalization.

Another thing to realize is that this process can only work if there already is a sizable muslim minority in your country to radicalize. If you dont have muslims in your country, then you cannot be threatened in this way, no matter how islamophobic the country gets, since you have no one to radicalize in the first place. The west has already a lot of muslims, but we dont. And this is why we (V4) must ensure that our countries stay like that. If we dont ensure that, we end up with the same troubles as we witness in the west today. Perhaps even greater troubles, if the theory that more islamophobia leads to more radicalization is correct - since V4 countries are more islamophobic.
This is of course specific to countries that almost dont have a muslim minority - if you are not from such country, feel free to disregard this last paragraph.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 07:29:30 am by 666maslo666 »
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Oh for ****'s sake not this crap again.

You already lost this argument in the last thread.  You're still wrong.  Go away.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Oh for ****'s sake not this crap again.

You already lost this argument in the last thread.  You're still wrong.  Go away.

Huh? I didnt lost the argument, we kinda stated different points of view without reaching any definitive conclusions about who is right..
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Offline Phantom Hoover

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Everyone except you reached a definitive conclusion about who was right.
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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Everyone except you reached a definitive conclusion about who was right.

"Reaching" a preconceived conclusion not strongly supported by actual arguments is not the same as winning the debate.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Oh for ****s sake, stop feeding the troll guys!
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Offline Galemp

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Oh for ****s sake, stop feeding the troll guys!

Was that in response to the previous few posts, or a general reaction to Trump's candidacy?
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Oh for ****s sake, stop feeding the troll guys!

Was that in response to the previous few posts, or a general reaction to Trump's candidacy?

Yes.

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Oh for ****s sake, stop feeding the troll guys!

Or again immediately making them look like the most pleasant person to be around. :lol: A couple deep breaths before replying, guys, just a couple deep breaths. Be calm, at peace, passive. Knowledge and defense, never attack. You can do it. :yes:

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Completely unprecedented, no president or presidential candidate has ever had a clip of theirs used in Islamic recruitment videos.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
If he gets elected in spite of that, I'm betting he wouldn't stop at a "temporary" ban on Muslim immigration. Bigotry and xenophobia might not be the best things for stopping Muslims from radicalizing, but they've got a pretty good record of getting politicians elected in difficult times. What happens afterwards usually isn't very pretty...

 

Offline perihelion

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
If he gets elected in spite of that, I'm betting he wouldn't stop at a "temporary" ban on Muslim immigration. Bigotry and xenophobia might not be the best things for stopping Muslims from radicalizing, but they've got a pretty good record of getting politicians elected in difficult times. What happens afterwards usually isn't very pretty...
Yeah, I have to agree. A lot of Trump's rhetoric sounds awfully similar to the rise of a certain German anti-Semitic hate-mongerer. Surely we all remember how well that turned out.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
You know it's funny the one thing trumps opposition and his most... enthusiastic supporters agree on is that he is the second coming of Hitler.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
The worst thing about this thread, I think, is that the irony of Maslo's last statement is lost upon him. Despite being taken apart, at length, by several different people, and having been repeatedly called out on the fact that he never quite seemed able to defend his statements, but always slid off to a different point that was orthogonal when the lack of supporting events or predictive power for his theories of How Stuff Works was brought up.

This is how he understands that event.

He looks back not with any understanding, but with a view calculated to sustain his hatred. And that's sad.
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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
I was in that thread replying to almost all comments aimed at me and defending my views until the very end, when it was locked. My posts were astute, often sourced and on point, if I may say so myself. This notion that I somehow "lost the debate" is fiction, complete BS and historical revisionism. Heck, I am not even sure it is possible to truly "lose the debate" about something so subjective and politically divisive. Its not like there is one objectively right view. If you think I was "taken apart" then your standard of proof must be very low indeed, basically consisting of "someone posted something I happen to agree with, we win hurr durr, ignore all couterarguments, lol". And thats what is sad.
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Offline The E

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
That you continued posting doesn't change that you lost. You never managed to present a credible, sourced, theory of why cutting immigration would help reduce terrorism. All you ever did was act as if that hypothesis was true and then try to support it.
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