[MP-Ryan]

Belgium has an amusing legal system, apparently:  https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161030/06444835913/belgian-court-fines-microsoft-failing-to-comply-with-impossible-order.shtml

The court, failing to understand anything but its power to order people around, demanded Skype turn over communications. Skype turned over the only thing it could actually obtain, explaining that its architecture didn't support the interception of calls. No dice. That only made the court angry.

The court was no more happy to have pointed out to it that Microsoft didn't actually fall under its jurisdiction. It maintains no data centers in Belgium, nor does it have anyone employed there. Microsoft suggested the court work with governments of countries where it actually maintains a presence and utilize their mutual assistance treaties.

None of these facts appear to have mattered. The court says Microsoft should be able to do the impossible because the law is the law.

[The E]

If by amusing you mean horrifying

And that's not the limit of Belgian exceptionalism. A "royal decree" from the Belgian government (which bypasses the Parliamentary approval process needed for actual legislation) forces ISPs to collect and store tons of info on their subscribers, including how many emails are sent, VoIP use (hello, Skype!), call metadata, etc. -- just in case law enforcement might need it. When it was pointed out this decree violated the EU's privacy directive, the government shrugged and called the agreement it signed "obsolete."

[Luis Dias]

I'm getting the impression that Belgium doesn't quite have its act together...

I wouldn't mind that Microsoft took this case to european courts and let them shove their **** into Belgium's ass. I mean, as it is, this is ridiculous from the mere economic point of view. What kind of corporation will want to work with them with these idiots playing their own silly version of "absolute kings"?

[NGTM-1R]

I'm getting the impression that Belgium doesn't quite have its act together...

It's not wrong. For all their heavy surveillance-state leanings Belgium has one of the least effective screening and policing operations in Europe when it comes to anti-terror work.

[MP-Ryan]

If by amusing you mean horrifying

Yeah, I thought that was implied by my tone.  Sorry.

[zookeeper]

Well, if the law demands that service providers retain that sort of data, then obviously you're going to end up getting "fined for not complying with an impossible order" if you do not retain it and then fail to turn it over. The article isn't clear on whether that was the case or not, so I'm not sure which thing exactly one should be most concerned about.

[MP-Ryan]

The Register has more detail: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/27/belgian_court_fines_skype_intercept_criminals_calls/

The Court gave Skype, which had no presence in Belgium, an order to turn over data that it has no obligation to keep because it has no presence in Belgium, and no ability to keep in the first place; this without using the international MLAT process to seek it from a country where Microsoft does have a presence.

International practice is pretty clear on this.  If you don't have a corporate presence in your country to actually serve and regulate under your laws but they have data that may be needed in the enforcement of your laws, any data requests you make have to go by way of an MLAT to a country where they do. (And believe me, this is a routine pain in the ass for law enforcement; MLATs take ridiculously long to complete).  The Belgian court doesn't appear to understand that.

I can't see the Belgians actually prevailing here.  At the very least, I can see Microsoft calling down a ****storm of EU and international law on their heads.

[Grizzly]

I'm getting the impression that Belgium doesn't quite have its act together...

It's not wrong. For all their heavy surveillance-state leanings Belgium has one of the least effective screening and policing operations in Europe when it comes to anti-terror work.

Belgium doesn't have anything together. It's answer to a divided cultural landscape was to simply divide everything rather then find a compromise. As a result, Belgium is now fractured to the point of political inpotence.

[Phantom Hoover]

belgium was a mistake

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I'm getting the impression that Belgium doesn't quite have its act together...

It's not wrong. For all their heavy surveillance-state leanings Belgium has one of the least effective screening and policing operations in Europe when it comes to anti-terror work.

Belgium doesn't have anything together. It's answer to a divided cultural landscape was to simply divide everything rather then find a compromise. As a result, Belgium is now fractured to the point of political inpotence.

if you dig a little deeper you'll find that nothing has been actually divided, merely chopped to pieces to make it seem as if the Flemish got their wish while the francofones maintained real power through incomplete transfer of powers as well as special locks in the constitution and 'alarm'procedures to make sure nothing that is good for Flanders ever passes. Oh, and they also get -depending on wether or not debt is actually paid of that year- between 6 and 16 billion euros in monetary transfers from Flanders. For ever. That's a lot of flemish that con't be helped by their government because the money is leeched away.
So yes, Belgium is a mistake. A costly one.

Oh btw: if something doesn't work in Belgium it's explained as such: "C'est belge"