Author Topic: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court  (Read 2415 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I suppose I did, but I didn't move them to places unprecidented in this thread.
This thread has covered some ground you have apparently not noticed, and that's fine, I was bringing up some things mentioned erlier. You seem to have a very focused point though, and i'm OK restricting discussion that.
So it sounds like we have some common ground then and we don't have to disagree.

So then about those first three examples I was addressing your assertion that because I was not suffering from gender dysphoria that I have no steak in the matter. I have been personally affected by this issue. This prescribed course of treatment has done nothing to help any person I have personally known, and in fact I feel has been harmful to people I have personally known. Perhaps I am wrong in this belief but that is where I am right now. If you have seen people become more unhappy as they get further along a process and never getting better, would you not have some justification to become antagonistic to that process? Have I justified my right to have an opinion on this matter to you at least?
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Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
If it is that important an issue for you, have you reached out to groups that might have stories of it being more successful or statistics regarding how people deal with it? You admit it's possible it is just a small sample size and it's affecting how you look at it. Maybe a broader "personal" view might sway (or reinforce) that?

 

Offline SpardaSon21

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
As someone else who has had negative experiences involving the transgendered, "You might be a statistical anomaly" sounds patronizing, distant, and condescending.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Phantom Hoover

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
what, they stole your parking space or something? that's insanely vague
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 10:22:46 am by Phantom Hoover »
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Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
As someone else who has had negative experiences involving the transgendered, "You might be a statistical anomaly" sounds patronizing, distant, and condescending.

Involving the transgendered? That can mean so many things it's amazing.

Because it does sound an awful lot like "All the people I work with hate x, therefore x is bad"

I can go and find things that I personally and the people around me have mentioned have experienced in a negative light and we could make the same argument. I won't touch on them because whoa, hot button issues but it's the reason we don't take anecdotes as evidence.

 

Offline SpardaSon21

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
what, they stole your parking space or something? that's insanely vague
As someone else who has had negative experiences involving the transgendered, "You might be a statistical anomaly" sounds patronizing, distant, and condescending.

Involving the transgendered? That can mean so many things it's amazing.

Because it does sound an awful lot like "All the people I work with hate x, therefore x is bad"

I can go and find things that I personally and the people around me have mentioned have experienced in a negative light and we could make the same argument. I won't touch on them because whoa, hot button issues but it's the reason we don't take anecdotes as evidence.
Let me give you the Cliffs Notes version, since its a long story.  My best friend from childhood committed suicide via sleeping pill Thanksgiving Day after a years-long spiral into drug abuse and depression trying to deal with his father's transition from male to female and the resulting breakup of his family.  And his family either didn't notice or didn't care about how ****ed up he was getting despite commonly checking in on him, even as my family and I did.  Is that a specific enough situation for you two?
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
what, they stole your parking space or something? that's insanely vague
As someone else who has had negative experiences involving the transgendered, "You might be a statistical anomaly" sounds patronizing, distant, and condescending.

Involving the transgendered? That can mean so many things it's amazing.

Because it does sound an awful lot like "All the people I work with hate x, therefore x is bad"

I can go and find things that I personally and the people around me have mentioned have experienced in a negative light and we could make the same argument. I won't touch on them because whoa, hot button issues but it's the reason we don't take anecdotes as evidence.
Let me give you the Cliffs Notes version, since its a long story.  My best friend from childhood committed suicide via sleeping pill Thanksgiving Day after a years-long spiral into drug abuse and depression trying to deal with his father's transition from male to female and the resulting breakup of his family.  And his family either didn't notice or didn't care about how ****ed up he was getting despite commonly checking in on him, even as my family and I did.  Is that a specific enough situation for you two?
...And you blame the trans person in that situation?
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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

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* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline SpardaSon21

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
Considering they were a devoted father prior and a prima donna after, yeah.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 06:50:37 pm by SpardaSon21 »
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
Considering they were a devoted father prior and a prima donna after, yeah.
lol

the fact that you think they became a fundamentally different person just means you weren't paying attention to what they were like before
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
If he was taking hormones, it's not too much of a stretch. They affect the body, yes, but also have an effect on brain. I would not expect a huge personality change like that, but different people respond to various substances in different ways. Also, it's possible that tensions between him and his wife over it (considering that the family fell apart as a result of this, she was probably not OK with it) were a contributing factor. And if you don't believe having a falling out with someone you genuinely love, possibly losing them forever can change a person completely, well, you should probably try that yourself someday.

TBH, what is really bizarre is that he decided to transition after having a family and enough sexual life with a woman to have children. I'm not saying it's impossible to repress it for that long (especially since not repressing it only recently became acceptable), but it seems odd that he managed a family life despite being the "wrong" sex. It was certainly a very irresponsible move at this point. He should have ensured this would not harm his family psychologically and, if no solution could be found, should have stuck with being a man for their sake.

 

Offline -Joshua-

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
But you weren't there right? It's really easy to say that person with issues shouldn't have done things that were caused by them having issues. It's not fundamentally different from saying that Spardason's friend should not have killed himself. This whole conversation tangent started with somebody making judgements about what's going on inside the head of another person on the internet, can we please not go back to that again?

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I have been personally affected by this issue. This prescribed course of treatment has done nothing to help any person I have personally known, and in fact I feel has been harmful to people I have personally known. Perhaps I am wrong in this belief but that is where I am right now. If you have seen people become more unhappy as they get further along a process and never getting better, would you not have some justification to become antagonistic to that process?

You're generalizing a few anecdotes to an entire physical/mental condition and its treatment.
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