Author Topic: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court  (Read 2424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
  • Posts: 3,547
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I assume it to mean "published as an article". I have no doubt these kinds people of exist in real life and their hardships are true. Fundies on all sides are kinda meh.

Ok, sure, I also believe these people exist. There's a whooping 7 billion people out there. You have to find anything out there. Even children who suffer from autism after they took some vaccines, if you get my point. The only reason anyone should be discussing this article is not whether if these kinds of particular cases exist or not. That is perfectly trivial. The only reason is if and only if these cases are representative of an actual problem that manifests in more situations than outside of standard deviation situations.

So for the reason I outlined (and Karajorma / Mongoose, yes that is the correct interpretation) and for the fact that there is no actual study, just particulars, strikes me as infuriatingly silly.

Take this paragraph, for instance:

Quote
“Now we are normalizing a family structure where a child will always be deprived daily of one gender influence and the relationship with at least one natural parent,” she explains, “Our cultural narrative becomes one that, in essence, tells children that they have no right to the natural family structure or their biological parents, but that children simply exist for the satisfaction of adult desires.”

That's the typical conservative narrative (and yes, Karajorma, I get what you're saying regarding right wing and conservativism, but we are speaking about gay parenthood, in which it's quite straightforward to say the right wingers are conservative), but it is inconsistent with the rest of the society we are living in.

We already allow single parenthood. We already allow divorces. So what is this whining about how children have a *right* to a father and a mother? It's such typical right wing claptrap. What is the conservative solution? Get rid of divorces? Once someone becomes a single parent, get their child away from them and put those children into a household where there's a father and a mother? Or, more to the point, what of children who aren't adopted, but could be adopted by a gay couple? Should they be left unadopted, because they "deserve a father and a mother"? What sense does that make? None, as far as I can tell. I have yet to see a conservative position regarding this issue that I can respect. It's just propaganda silly shenanigans.

 

Offline Phantom Hoover

  • 211
  • Posts: 2,598
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
It kind of reminds me of how Christian conservatives care about the lives of embryos exclusively as an excuse to outlaw abortion, when if they actually wanted to save the lives of ~unborn babies~ they'd be pouring all the money they could raise into preventing the early-term spontaneous miscarriages which, from their perspective, kill up to half of the entire human population.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline -Joshua-

  • 210
  • Posts: 1,700
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I personally know about a dozen people who are now ****ED UP as a result of their Christian up bringing (including that one I had a conversation with you about a year ago if you remember her), and as an enemy of all religion I welcome the precedent you want to set of removing children from parents on the grounds that the parents are not absolutely perfect, when the liberals get back in power this will be just the thing for crushing Christianity once and for all.

Liberals aren't going to crush Christianity. The whole point of liberalism is to allow people to do things they want as long as they...

... Oh what the hell. You know the speech about how people who are followers of Islam shouldn't be punished for the actions of extremists, that speech applies just as well to Christians.

It kind of reminds me of how Christian conservatives care about the lives of embryos exclusively as an excuse to outlaw abortion, when if they actually wanted to save the lives of ~unborn babies~ they'd be pouring all the money they could raise into preventing the early-term spontaneous miscarriages which, from their perspective, kill up to half of the entire human population.

This is what still surprises me about the whole 'conservative christian' side of US politics that, apperently, really hasn't read the same New Testament that I read. Bill Maher made a point on it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 10:12:12 am by -Joshua- »

 

Offline Blue Lion

  • Star Shatterer
  • 210
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I just kinda decided a long time ago that none of the long winded explanations are just means to the end. It's the opposite of what Luis said. They don't care about the consequences of it or what. If it goes against a tenet, it's wrong. Gays are wrong, find any reason to make it stick. Abortion is wrong, do anything you can to stop it. Does that reason make sense? Who cares. It does what we want.

The part that makes me chuckle a bit about the abortion argument is that if they succeed in arguing that life begins at conception, wouldn't babies technically me 9 months old at birth since they were alive the entire time? I'm not sure they want to push all those age limits 9 months back but that's what they're arguing right?

You can see it in the vaccine crowd, the global warming denial people (look, snow. pfft global warming)

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
  • Posts: 3,547
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
That's what "means to the end" means: you only care about the end and the end is, **** those gays. Well, not literally, but... uhhh... yeah.

I agree with you there. But in order to "make a case", and mind you, this is a case being made in a court, some semblance of an argument needs to be made. The real argument is, of course, one being made in your stomach (are you or are you not, disgusted by the thought of gay parents? Just think about the degeneracy! Yuck!!), but at least some pretence of a rational argument should be made out there. And I will gladly ignore the stomach argument and go straight to the rational argument. Because it either makes sense or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, then the only thing left here is emotional diarrhea, pretending to sound like an argument.

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • Administrator
  • 212
  • Posts: 7,984
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
The part that makes me chuckle a bit about the abortion argument is that if they succeed in arguing that life begins at conception, wouldn't babies technically me 9 months old at birth since they were alive the entire time? I'm not sure they want to push all those age limits 9 months back but that's what they're arguing right?

I hear that's the traditional Chinese approach to age; they start counting at conception.

I fully agree that bad parents are bad parents, regardless if they're hetero or homo. FYI. :)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
  • Posts: 10,317
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I thought that was Korea, and they rounded it up to a year.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Sandwich

  • Got Screen?
  • Administrator
  • 212
  • Posts: 7,984
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Brainzipper
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
Now that you mention it, I think it was one of those things I'd heard throughout life but never independently verified. :shrug:
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
  • Posts: 10,317
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
So, Trump is president, Pence is vice, there is a republican congress, what are you going to do? are you going to spend all this time finishing the sword the Democrats were repairing for you, that will be turned on you when the democrats inevitably get put in the driver's seat again? or are you going to smash it. Reduce the centralization of power. Make the country safer for the group with 49.9%? Or is using force and telling the others 'tough ****' just too tempting?

(note: not addressed directly at Sandwich... who... I forget do you have dual citizenship?)
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
  • Posts: 29,439
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I hear that's the traditional Chinese approach to age; they start counting at conception.

It's nothing to do with conception actually. It's so that in your first calendar year of your life you are 1, etc. Everyone gets a year older on an equivalent of New Year's Day. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_age_reckoning
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 08:40:52 pm by karajorma »
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

  • Node Warrior
  • 27
  • Posts: 152
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
The whole idea of a real conservative viewpoint is supposed to be "Society works at the moment, let's not change it cause even with the problems it has, any change could easily make things worse."

that isn't conservatism either. True conservatives will accept change (since change is inevitable), just slower than most, and usually when they're decently sure that society will not be detrimentally affected.
In other words, and regarding this issue: conservatives will oppose gay marriage and adoption as long as it is overwhelmingly opposed by society, or if it would be change for change's sake. Once society flips and accepts that gay people can marry and/or adopt, the correct conservative position is to protect and safeguard this new 'status quo'
Trying to undo this is not a conservative position, but a reactionary position. And reactionaries are (almost) universally bad.
It came from outer space! What? Dunno, but it's going back on the next flight!
Proud member of Hard Light Productions. The last, best hope for Freespace...
:ha:

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
  • Posts: 29,439
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
That's a fair description, I was trying to sum up in one line.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline S-99

  • MC Hammer
  • 210
  • Posts: 1,898
  • A one hit wonder, you still want to touch this.
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
I was raised by lesbians, they never withheld me from heterosexuality or forced me to see all their "gay-only" friends (My moms were not swingers, they got together and had a monogamous relationship.)

My father on the other hand, constantly berated me and treated me like **** for not being manly. He verbally and physically abused me. Saying something he didn't like meant being locked in a room during lunch or dinner all alone and not being fed some days.

The joke was on him though, he was the one trading partners constantly and partying because he could not accept that my mom could have a happy stable relationship with a woman. Or that when I finally left him behind on my birth country, despite all the years he spent punishing me for being a sissy, I came out as transgender and am currently transitioning.

Getting rid of my father helped me feel like I was a human being. But it took 8 years for my self image to heal.

If someone dares to say that gay couples are inherently lesser to straight ones at parenting, I can say from experience... you are full of ****.
I read this thread. But you really set yourself apart. You have so much bitterness toward your father that you would use your sex change to also spite the man? Why must you spite your father with this sex change? He should have nothing to do with your decision. Take some time and look deep inside yourself and find out if you really are never going to regret the sex change later in your life. Humans often do change their minds and attitude, and getting a sex change is often no minor thing. You said you were transitioning; you mean to be more than a cross dresser obviously. Please find what pushes you to do this, and whether you really want to continue.

Don't be too hard on the man that is your father. He is also not perfect, but tried, and especially didn't know what to do about you. You must think from his perspective, you are his son, growing up not to be the man you were born as; that is how he sees it. Instead you are becoming the woman you will never be; just a perversion of the sex you were born as that you can never change. I will concede defeat when you can have periods and even give birth.

You do not convince me that you being a sissy, getting a sex change, and fighting your dad with his attempts to try to get you to act masculine when you were younger, has nothing to do with being raised by two moms in a monogamous relationship.

Please think before you do something irreversible to yourself.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Scotty

  • 1.21 gigawatts!
  • 211
  • Posts: 3,624
  • Guns, guns, guns.
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
Jesus Christ that's one of the most condescending things I've ever read.  Far be it from me to speak for An4ximandros, but if you said that to me my first and only response would be "**** off".

 

Offline S-99

  • MC Hammer
  • 210
  • Posts: 1,898
  • A one hit wonder, you still want to touch this.
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
Please consider what's bad is good and what's good is bad for a second.  See how you fall into that, how others can. Truth is never subjective; if truth is ever subjective, then it is still a lie with the truth still needing to be sought.

Truth is if you are born a man, it is an impossibility to change your sex. Truth is also if you are born a woman, it is an impossibility to change your sex. Attempting to change your sex only results in masquerading around in a disguise pretending to be something you are not; you end up being a perversion of what you are supposed to be and still wonder that gay parents have a higher chance of raising gay kids (and people think that homosexuality is something you are born with). Men can not be surgically altered to give birth, and women can not be surgically altered to fertilize an egg. Not to mention penises were designed for vaginas; another convenient truth.

If your response if to tell me to FOFF, then perhaps you cannot handle different views from your own.

I don't think it's mere someone being born in the wrong body to consider themselves identifying as being the opposite sex, as opposed to when they are open about being a guy raised by two gay women who through life self identified and reacted opposite to his sex, such as An4ximandros. I praise him for his honesty, but i am really worrisome about his motives. Can a man that dresses and acts like a woman make clear headed decisions in anything? With someone that is warped, you tend to have warped judgements from them as well.

You know it would have been better had An4ximandros (a man) not posted in this thread at all. No rational person should take pride in mutilating themselves just to persue a fantasy they will never be able to achieve (attempting to become the opposite sex). Where do you not see the perversion? When do you not see it's damage?

I know i will be hated by this forum. But, please offer more than **** off for a reply. Something tells me that if you live life as what you are never able to achieve, you strongly just might be unhappy and bitter.

EDIT:
I'm in bed now. I expect to be thoroughly mutilated by this board through out the night and next day. This is why i don't care for politically correct speech, it does more than control how people speak, but offendees control what can be spoken about simply dismissing what offends. This is counterintuitive for hearing all sides of an argument.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 12:45:18 am by S-99 »
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Posts: 12,503
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
You're very very wrong. I would advise you to not speak on this topic again.

EDIT:

In case this isn't clear, being transgender is not wrong. Seeking gender reassignment therapy is not wrong. S-99 is a classic example of a transphobic moron who hasn't been keeping up with the research, and as a result should not be trusted for having valid opinions on these issues (or mental health issues in general).

(That being said, please keep the dogpiling to a minimum. We know S-99 is wrong, and unlikely to change his mind no matter what sort of evidence is presented to him; Treat his post as the drive-by idiocy that it is)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 01:05:30 am by The E »
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
  • Posts: 1,254
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
and people think that homosexuality is something you are born with
It is.  This is an objective fact.  If you believe otherwise, you are wrong.

Quote
This is why i don't care for politically correct speech, it does more than control how people speak, but offendees control what can be spoken about simply dismissing what offends. This is counterintuitive for hearing all sides of an argument.
You're assuming that all sides of an argument are worth consideration as though they're all equally valid.  But no, I'm afraid an argument fundamentally based on ignorance is not as valid as one that isn't.

And trying to boost your argument by claiming it'll get dismissed because it isn't politically correct isn't going to work.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 02:38:12 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline -Joshua-

  • 210
  • Posts: 1,700
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
Quote
Truth is if you are born a man, it is an impossibility to change your sex. Truth is also if you are born a woman, it is an impossibility to change your sex. Attempting to change your sex only results in masquerading around in a disguise pretending to be something you are not;

You're right! You can't reverse the development of the brain. If your brain has been programmed with the notion that you have a woman's body whilst quite a few parts of you are rather manly, or vice versa, you can't really change anything about it. Attempting to conform to your body in such a case only results in masquerading around in a disguise pretending to be something you are not. You are your brain.

And that's exactly why transitioning is so important: It ensures that your body conforms to your brain again. 

Quote
This is why i don't care for politically correct speech, it does more than control how people speak, but offendees control what can be spoken about simply dismissing what offends. This is counterintuitive for hearing all sides of an argument.

How do you measure up to your own standards? You did just go off on a two post rant on what people can and can not be, based on your own notions of what is right in the world, which happens to be in alignment with some of the most powerfull political institutes in the world:
Quote
Can a man that dresses and acts like a woman make clear headed decisions in anything? With someone that is warped, you tend to have warped judgements from them as well.
Quote
You know it would have been better had An4ximandros (a man) not posted in this thread at all. No rational person should take pride in mutilating themselves just to persue a fantasy they will never be able to achieve (attempting to become the opposite sex). Where do you not see the perversion? When do you not see it's damage?
You, right there, are simply dismissing not just an argument, but an entire person simply because their existence offends you. If anyone is trying to use 'political correctness' to control who speaks it's you.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
  • Posts: 3,547
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
In case this isn't clear, being transgender is not wrong. Seeking gender reassignment therapy is not wrong. S-99 is a classic example of a transphobic moron who hasn't been keeping up with the research, and as a result should not be trusted for having valid opinions on these issues (or mental health issues in general).

Was that really necessary? If he's wrong, he is wrong. He's not being a moron for disagreeing with a subject matter where, even if you correctly cite the research on this topic, there is still ample room in scientific findings to argue like he's doing. It's not as if transsexuality is a subject matter that is as well understood as particle physics. I would say that sexuality in general is a really hot topic, with a lot of inconvenient truths lurking in the shadows, and the inconvenience of said truths can cut either way.

On a slightly different note, I'd say that the recent trend of acknowledging trans-people when they are still 4 to 9 year of age and making them believe they should go this route should be viewed quite skeptically and with consternation.

Personally I'm of the mind that an adult is free to do with their body as they see fit, but I'm also of the mind that the medical community should be a lot more conservative than most would like it to be. That is, to be more skeptical of these novelties in the "research" departments, which are filled with social science papers...

This is an objective fact.

This is, I think, a matter where a lot of good discussion could be had, both scientifically and philosophically, but since you state it so adamantly, I guess there's no room for even trying to discuss it. (I do believe that homossexuals have no input on their desires (the desires just come to them, as they come to any heterossexual), and that it is unethical to stop two (or more?) adults from actualizing their desires for each other...)

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
  • Posts: 29,439
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay Marriage in Federal Court
This is why i don't care for politically correct speech, it does more than control how people speak, but offendees control what can be spoken about simply dismissing what offends. This is counterintuitive for hearing all sides of an argument.

Quote
You know it would have been better had An4ximandros (a man) not posted in this thread at all.

Yeah, it's the politically correct people who don't want to hear the other side of the argument! :rolleyes:
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]