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Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: The E on November 30, 2013, 10:37:26 am

Title: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [CLOSED - 1/1/14]
Post by: The E on November 30, 2013, 10:37:26 am
UPDATE: The Beta has ended and the files removed. You can download the MediaVPs 2014 Final here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86475.0)


Yes, this is actually a thing that is happening right now.

After a long long wait, we've finally decided to release a beta version of the current MediaVPs as they exist in our svn. There's a lot of stuff in here, and I am not going to list everything that went in here, but suffice it to say that at a whopping 4GB for the whole thing, this is the largest MediaVPs release yet.

Things included in here

A lot of new models for the Shivans and Vasudans, as well as long-awaited updates for the Colossus and Arcadia for the Terrans. We've also corrected most of those pesky LOD warnings recent FSO builds have been giving out.

How to use this new goodness

First, you will have to do a whole lot of downloading. The first package you absolutely have to get, since it contains a lot of data that is simply used to set the groundwork for the rest. All of the other packages are optional; However I do recommend getting at least MV_Assets, MV_Effects, MV_CBANI and MV_Music, as these represent the bulk of the changes.

Also provided is an additional package called mv_beta. This contains assets that are not fully tested yet, and which we'll need your feedback on.

UPDATE: Beta 2 has been released on 12/7/13. The only files updated are the ones marked by **. If you previously downloaded Beta 1, those are the only files you need to update.

NOTE: MV_Beta is no longer supported in Beta 2. Please delete it.

**MV_Root - This includes all of the necessary housekeeping the mediavps do. Included are updated mission files for the FS2 main campaign, and a few table files that ensure an optimal MediaVPs experience.

**MV_Effects - This package includes updated effects for weapons, particles and a lot of other stuff.

**MV_Assets - This package consists of all the marvellous new models

MV_Music - This pacvkage contains remastered music tracks for your enjoyment.

MV_CBANI - This is actually 2 vps, both containing redone Command Brief animations, using higher resolutions and the new models

MV_Animglows - This package contains animated glowmaps for a few ships (mostly shivan ones)

**MV_Advanced - This package contains high resolution textures for a few select ships.

MV_Beta - The central piece of this public Beta. This contains assets that still need some testing before they can be integrated properly; If you encounter issues with this release, you will need to take note of any errors, then test if these errors persist if you remove this file. REMOVED IN BETA 2.

Installation

Once you've downloaded everything you want, unpack all of the 7z archives. You should now find a folder called "mediavps_2014_beta", containing several .vp files, a mod.ini and a launcher graphic. Copy this folder to your FreeSpace directory, select it as the active mod in your launcher of choice, and start playing. Please tell us if anything breaks.

Technical requirements

For the basic package (MV_Root, MV_Assets, MV_Effects, MV_CBANI, MV_Music) any reasonably recent PC with a midrange GPU will be more than sufficient. MV_Animglows and MV_Advanced can cause drastically lowered performance on weak hardware (Laptops without dedicated GPU, integrated graphics chips).

Miscellaneous remarks

How can I use these with a custom campaign?
You will need to open that campaign's mod.ini, look for the mediavps or mediavps_3612 entry, and change it to mediavps_2014_beta.

Why didn't you provide a .torrent download for this?
Two reasons. One, this is a beta, and so updates may happen. Two, it already took me a couple hours to upload these to the fsmods FTP; A torrent upload would take longer.

This post does not seem very professional. There are no colours in it.
I am not Zacam. Deal with it.

Your install instructions are hard to understand
I am sorry about that, but as this is a beta, I chose to forego the ultra-detailed approach to those instructions a full release will get.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Rodo on November 30, 2013, 11:03:03 am
aww yisssss, downloading right away!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 30, 2013, 12:39:04 pm
Yes, this is actually a thing that is happening right now.
Oh, sweet. Downloadin'.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: CKid on November 30, 2013, 12:43:20 pm
Damn you Internet! Download faster!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: JCDNWarrior on November 30, 2013, 01:07:34 pm
Great news indeed, I've been literally waiting for this release for at least half a year, my WIP mod files were full of old-and-new models numering too many for the F3 Lab to display. Time to completely rework said mod files, all the better though.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: headdie on November 30, 2013, 02:25:55 pm
sweet, not downloading as it will probably melt my relic of a computer but suffice to say congrats to the FSU on hitting this major milestone
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Rodo on November 30, 2013, 02:31:40 pm
Does it require a specific fso build?
I'm getting errors right after trying to start it.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: The Dagger on November 30, 2013, 02:53:28 pm
I'm using the latest nightly with no problems. Using 3.7.0 gives some medals and countermessures table errors.
Though I think I've found a bit of a bug on the Alastor's upper turret uvec or fvec value:

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/screen0213_zpsf0013d06.png)

EDIT: THANK YOU ALL FOR THIS! I'm loving it, specially the Colossus, Charybdis and Nephtys. :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Rodo on November 30, 2013, 03:10:20 pm
Might be that, I'm using 3.7.0 release. Will playtest with nightly then.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: est1895 on November 30, 2013, 03:39:06 pm
Request:  MediaVPs 2014 final by Christmas?  :lol:

No really, I'm very thankful that this beta is out.  :nod:
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Ulala on November 30, 2013, 03:51:30 pm
Does it require a specific fso build?
I'm getting errors right after trying to start it.

Does it look like this? I'm also getting an error immediately after launch:

Code: [Select]
species_CM-sdf.tbm(line 5):
Error: Required token = [#END] or [$Species_Name:], found [$Countermeasure Type: Vasudan CM] .

KERNELBASE.dll! IsNLSDefinedString + 3234 bytes
KERNELBASE.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 139 bytes
KERNEL32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
KERNEL32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_0.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_0.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_0.exe! <no symbol>


I even tried a fresh install of FS2 from GOG with FSO 3.7.0, and I get the same error with my FSO 3.6.18 install (except of course the 3_7_0  shows as 3_6_18 in the error). Tried two launchers to be sure.

I tried some searching on the SCP forum, but I'm not sure I found the latest nightly 3.7.0 build (I downloaded this http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85435.0 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85435.0)) If there's something else I need, perhaps someone could help me out with a link? Thanks, excited to try this out. :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Rodo on November 30, 2013, 04:01:22 pm
Use this one: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86176.0
No errors using that one for me.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 30, 2013, 04:02:58 pm
Yes, it should have been mentioned that some of the stuff in the MV_Beta require the latest nightly.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Rodo on November 30, 2013, 04:16:02 pm
Place of the Charriots:

-Missing red flash beep (iceni radar lead).
-Asteroids seem to be missing a lod perhaps?, switch between lods when approaching one is just too noticeable.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Ulala on November 30, 2013, 04:23:06 pm
Thank you, it's working now. Cheers!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: est1895 on November 30, 2013, 04:23:31 pm
Just curious E, how many hours do you think went into this grand project?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Yarn on November 30, 2013, 04:55:49 pm
I had a look at the files. Here's what I have to say so far:
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: fightermedic on November 30, 2013, 06:27:18 pm
woooooot
nice
finally all those reworked shivan ships are going to be used
thanks for all the work!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: DahBlount on November 30, 2013, 07:44:10 pm
Since everyone else is posting glitches and bugs I thought I might point this out.
The new Colossus is great. However there are these little... things I keep seeing on the hull at odd angles (In game closer than 1500 meters).

Example 1 (Normal?):
(http://i.imgur.com/lU2YR6F.jpg)

Example 2 (Strangeness):
(http://i.imgur.com/cast7mD.jpg)

The little popups in example 2 appear to be in 3 dimensions. I'm assuming they are part of the model but it just weirds me out that they do this.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hellzed on December 01, 2013, 01:15:07 am
I confirm the issue with the Colossus...

Do the mediavps_2014_beta work with Blue Planet yet ?

EDIT : I played a bit with different lighting settings, and the colossus issue does not appear with standard recommended lighting... Only with really dark settings (--no-emissive-light).
Oh, and these hi res anis... WTF with Bosh war crimes and other crimes ?!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hades on December 01, 2013, 04:14:03 am
Since everyone else is posting glitches and bugs I thought I might point this out.
The new Colossus is great. However there are these little... things I keep seeing on the hull at odd angles (In game closer than 1500 meters).

-snip-

The little popups in example 2 appear to be in 3 dimensions. I'm assuming they are part of the model but it just weirds me out that they do this.
That's detail boxing being odd. I believe that, since it's a box, stuff that should but don't show up straight on will show up at what is further away than the straight on view point because you're in the corner of the detail box (as opposed to not in it at all). You'll see this happen with the Typhon as well.

Those little boxes are also some terrible detail thing that Galemp added that looks, well, terrible. I think they're either meant to be windows or they're meant to resemble our hubris in thinking we can make models look better?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hellzed on December 01, 2013, 04:25:43 am
So, I'm starting to play through the campaign again, and I noticed something weird with the new GTFr Poseidon (Capricorn 1) model in The Romans Blunder.
The ship has been hit maybe once or twice, then something odd happens with the in game physics and the ship looks like it spinning very fast on itself, colliding with its cargo...
It takes a lot of damage and then dies...

EDIT : Ouch, the NTI Boadicea is soooooo ugly ! I thought there was a HTL version somewhere on this forum ?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Terquotyl on December 01, 2013, 07:07:41 am
the Colossus
I'm... I'm sorry, but... I think I might be in love with you.

Yes, it should have been mentioned that some of the stuff in the MV_Beta require the latest nightly.
Good to know, thanks! :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: DahBlount on December 01, 2013, 08:32:51 am
Since everyone else is posting glitches and bugs I thought I might point this out.
The new Colossus is great. However there are these little... things I keep seeing on the hull at odd angles (In game closer than 1500 meters).

-snip-

The little popups in example 2 appear to be in 3 dimensions. I'm assuming they are part of the model but it just weirds me out that they do this.
That's detail boxing being odd. I believe that, since it's a box, stuff that should but don't show up straight on will show up at what is further away than the straight on view point because you're in the corner of the detail box (as opposed to not in it at all). You'll see this happen with the Typhon as well.

Those little boxes are also some terrible detail thing that Galemp added that looks, well, terrible. I think they're either meant to be windows or they're meant to resemble our hubris in thinking we can make models look better?
Thanks for letting me know. I'm still very impressed with the model over all but these detail boxes seem to act in strange ways.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 01, 2013, 08:40:03 am
EDIT : Ouch, the NTI Boadicea is soooooo ugly ! I thought there was a HTL version somewhere on this forum ?

We have a model in FSU. It needs a LOT of work before it's game ready, though.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 01, 2013, 08:47:34 am
Has the FSU team forgone the use of an FSO-styled build naming scheme in favor of a year-specific one?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: The E on December 01, 2013, 08:51:32 am
Has the FSU team forgone the use of an FSO-styled build naming scheme in favor of a year-specific one?

Yes. It's simpler and easier for everyone involved.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Yarn on December 01, 2013, 12:28:29 pm
The GVF Ptah in 0_MV_Beta.vp causes an assertion to fail in debug builds:
Code: [Select]
Assert: num_faces <= MAX_INS_FACES
File: modelread.cpp
Line: 2214

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! SCP_DumpStack + 354 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! WinAssert + 194 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! read_model_file + 19681 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! model_load + 782 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! ss_load_icons + 331 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! ss_load_all_icons + 231 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! ship_select_common_init + 128 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! common_select_init + 254 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! brief_init + 508 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! game_enter_state + 705 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! gameseq_set_state + 310 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! game_process_event + 318 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! gameseq_process_events + 152 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! game_main + 782 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! WinMain + 330 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! __tmainCRTStartup + 358 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131201_r10178.exe! WinMainCRTStartup + 15 bytes
kernel32.dll! BaseThreadInitThunk + 18 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 99 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 54 bytes
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 01, 2013, 01:03:39 pm
The Ptah uses more than 10 faces for insignia. I asked that either the limit in the code be bumped or that The Dagger reduce the number of insignia faces.. whichever happens first.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hellzed on December 01, 2013, 01:43:21 pm
Anyone has tried to play Bearbaiting ?
A few seconds into the mission (when the Sathanas destroys the vasudan destroyer), the 3D part of the render turns black (no objects, no starmap, only a bright star...). The HUD is still shown, but with a weird orb in the upper left corner. I reproduce it everytime I try this mission.

I'm running Ubuntu 13.10 64, fs2_open 3.7.1 (i'll get the debug build ASAP).
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Skarab on December 01, 2013, 02:29:23 pm
getting a ctd in the mission "A Game of Tag"... attached debug

For ship 'SF Manticore', detail level
mismatch. Table has 4,
POF has 3.
ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1-DEBUG-20131127_r10174.exe! <no symbol>
kernel32.dll! BaseThreadInitThunk + 18 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 99 bytes
ntdll.dll! RtlInitializeExceptionChain + 54 bytes
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Aardwolf on December 01, 2013, 03:11:34 pm
I was going to check myself, but the download says it's going to take a long time... did my Shivan CM make it?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Macfie on December 01, 2013, 03:48:02 pm
I was going to check myself, but the download says it's going to take a long time... did my Shivan CM make it?

Yes, there's a shivan Counter measures in the release
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Rodo on December 01, 2013, 04:27:31 pm
I cannot progress further from "Into the Maelstrom", I'm getting a crash to desktop without warnings or anything.

Just run the mission with debug, attaching the file and here's a resume:

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace 2 Open version: 3.7.1
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 90
  -ogl_spec 10
  -spec_static 1
  -spec_point 0.2
  -spec_tube 0.6
  -ambient_factor 60
  -missile_lighting
  -nomotiondebris
  -3dshockwave
  -soft_particles
  -post_process
  -bloom_intensity 70
  -fxaa
  -fxaa_preset 5
  -fb_explosions
  -orbradar
  -3dwarp
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -warp_flash
  -snd_preload
  -mod mediavps_2014_beta
Building file index...
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\0_MV_Beta.vp' with a checksum of 0xcce6b7cb
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_A-Glows.vp' with a checksum of 0xb71153f6
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Advanced.vp' with a checksum of 0xc4ec4c72
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Assets.vp' with a checksum of 0xa439fef3
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_CB_ANI_1.vp' with a checksum of 0x6788e102
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_CB_ANI_2.vp' with a checksum of 0xf9fefcbb
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Effects.vp' with a checksum of 0x1ced67fa
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Music.vp' with a checksum of 0xa37a4e9c
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Root.vp' with a checksum of 0xab1b6f5d
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-mission-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0x377695e0
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-voice-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0xd50e7442
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\Root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\' ... 2 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\0_MV_Beta.vp' ... 516 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_A-Glows.vp' ... 1735 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Advanced.vp' ... 1601 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1742 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_CB_ANI_1.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_CB_ANI_2.vp' ... 57 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Effects.vp' ... 2043 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Music.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_2014_beta\MV_Root.vp' ... 734 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\' ... 9 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-mission-pack.vp' ... 110 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-voice-pack.vp' ... 307 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\Root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Found 22 roots and 15915 files.
ERROR: Unknown Language Checksum: 589986744
Using default language settings...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_root-lcl.tbm' ...
Setting language to English
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_root-lcl.tbm' ...

Going to debriefing!
Got event GS_EVENT_DEBRIEF (33) in state GS_STATE_GAME_PLAY (2)
SOUND: c:\code\fs2_open_0\code\sound\ds.cpp:1268 - OpenAL error = 'Invalid Operation'
Unloading in mission messages
Storing stats now


It says a sound is missing, but I'm sure I downloaded everything.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hellzed on December 01, 2013, 06:00:36 pm
So here is the crach log for Bearbaiting :
Code: [Select]
ATTENTION: default value of option force_s3tc_enable overridden by environment.
ATTENTION: default value of option force_s3tc_enable overridden by environment.
WARNING: "For ship 'SJ Sathanas', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship/ship.cpp:9011
WARNING: "SJ Sathanas (Sathanas.pof) has no mass! setting to 53457060.000000" at ship/ship.cpp:4688
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
WARNING: "Null vec3d in vec3d normalize. Trace out of vecmat.cpp and find offending code." at math/vecmat.cpp:434
ASSERTION FAILED: "t_goal < delta_t" at math/vecmat.cpp:1700

Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Piemanlives on December 01, 2013, 06:43:06 pm
So I understand that this is the beta (and therefore will refrain from using it as I won't be of much help) but other then the Arcadia and Colossus, what can we expect to have changed in this other then, well, a lot.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Yarn on December 01, 2013, 08:10:30 pm
In addition to what I reported earlier (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86195.msg1722028#msg1722028), I also noticed that there's a file in 0_MV_Beta.vp called "new_fog-obt .tbm". Notice the space before ".tbm"; I'm pretty sure that the file isn't loading because of that.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 01, 2013, 10:51:56 pm
I would like to know of the endgame cutscene is playing correctly. There were reports from a while back that they weren't. Seems like some of you are playing the campaign, so please report back.

Also, for the bugs posted in this thread, I will try to get to them. But.. there are already quite a few, so please use mantis (http://www.hard-light.net/mantis/my_view_page.php) to report them even if you've already posted about them here.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 02, 2013, 11:39:59 am
How can I use these with a custom campaign?
You will need to open that campaign's mod.ini, look for the mediavps or mediavps_3612 entry, and change it to mediavps_2014_beta.

BTW is there a reason you started to rename your mediaVP folder with every major release?

The last time I was here (2007-2008), it was only called "mediavps". Then at some point you decided to add a version number after it. And now there's a year number??

Not that this would prevent me from playing, but I find it exceedingly irritating to manually edit every mod.ini file of my 30+ mods :P

Too much hard work ;D
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Luis Dias on December 02, 2013, 11:43:29 am
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 02, 2013, 12:29:45 pm
How can I use these with a custom campaign?
You will need to open that campaign's mod.ini, look for the mediavps or mediavps_3612 entry, and change it to mediavps_2014_beta.

BTW is there a reason you started to rename your mediaVP folder with every major release?

The last time I was here (2007-2008), it was only called "mediavps". Then at some point you decided to add a version number after it. And now there's a year number??

Not that this would prevent me from playing, but I find it exceedingly irritating to manually edit every mod.ini file of my 30+ mods :P

Too much hard work ;D

The reason is because the FSU decided that it is about upgrading Freespace 2 and as a bonus that generally works with mods as an upgrade pack. However, we  (FSU) simply cannot guarantee that the newer mediavps packs will work with every mod ever. So, you are free to edit your mod.ini's if you want. However, the system is designed so that mods built on MediaVPs 3.6.10 will -always- work when loaded with MediaVPs 3.6.10. They may work with 3.6.12, but we can't ensure that. It's up to the mod creators to update their mods for the newer mediavps packs if they want to support them.

NOTE: FSU will attempt to assist mods that want to update their mods with compatibility issues.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 02, 2013, 02:24:41 pm
Quote
The reason is because the FSU decided that it is about upgrading Freespace 2 and as a bonus that generally works with mods as an upgrade pack. However, we  (FSU) simply cannot guarantee that the newer mediavps packs will work with every mod ever. So, you are free to edit your mod.ini's if you want. However, the system is designed so that mods built on MediaVPs 3.6.10 will -always- work when loaded with MediaVPs 3.6.10. They may work with 3.6.12, but we can't ensure that. It's up to the mod creators to update their mods for the newer mediavps packs if they want to support them.

This would make sense if the FSO installation instruction page also contained links for legacy mediavps files. Now it seems they are nowhere to be found, or at least it's very difficult to find old mediavps.

I haven't really encountered any problems with upgrading mod.ini from "mediavps" to "mediavps_3612" with any mods, but here's the thing: IF there was an unfortunate incident, and a mission refuses to work because of too fresh mediavp files, the only possible solution for playing that mission would be to use retail FS models and textures.

IF this kind of thing were to happen, I believe everyone would prefer using legacy mediavp mod directory as a substitute. It's always a better option than plain retail FS2.

EDIT: I say this because I recognize that most of the mod makers really can't upgrade their mods with every new MediaVP update.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Luis Dias on December 02, 2013, 02:32:59 pm
So you're basically saying that someone somewhere might be having an obscure problem that no one has yet complained about?

Ok.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 02, 2013, 02:39:31 pm
Quote
So you're basically saying that someone somewhere might be having an obscure problem that no one has yet complained about?

Ok.

You are missing the point. It seems that FSU team is afraid of compatibility issues. If there was no compatibility issues whatsoever, the most logical thing would be to keep mediavp -directory's name SAME with every update and only upgrade single files.

This way no one would ever have to update mod.ini files.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 02, 2013, 02:46:47 pm
A: this is not the thread to debate that issue.

B: it's not going to change.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: The E on December 02, 2013, 02:53:52 pm
You are missing the point. It seems that FSU team is afraid of compatibility issues. If there was no compatibility issues whatsoever, the most logical thing would be to keep mediavp -directory's name SAME with every update and only upgrade single files.

This way no one would ever have to update mod.ini files.

Look, we've been thinking about this issue a long time. The way we've chosen to implement this is the best available to us given the way FS modding works.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 02, 2013, 03:12:59 pm
So, no links for old mediavps (pre 3.6.12)? That's disappointing.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Grizzly on December 02, 2013, 03:20:57 pm
Is the FSU team actually aiming for yearly release's now (with a "code freeze" at the 31st of december or something like that), or is it just called 2014 because it is no longer geared towards a certain build?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 02, 2013, 03:27:48 pm
or is it just called 2014 because it is no longer geared towards a certain build?

This.

So, no links for old mediavps (pre 3.6.12)? That's disappointing.

Hey look, I used the forum search! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=65038.msg1282043#msg1282043)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 02, 2013, 03:47:58 pm
No, I meant that this page should have additional links:

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Installing_FreeSpace_2_Open

Sorry, i've been very confusing today. I'll go to sleep...
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 02, 2013, 03:52:34 pm
It's the Wiki.. add them.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: niffiwan on December 03, 2013, 05:28:16 am
For those that have encountered the Ptah insignia problem, I've just committed a change to the code to increase the allowed faces/vertexes for insignia.  I've loaded all the models in the techroom without any issues, but more testing would be good, just grab the next nightly build (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=173.0) (in probably nearly 24 hours as I think I just missed the scheduled windows nightly build time)

Also, if any modellers could weigh in on the best value for max vertexes given a new faces limit of 80 that would also be appreciated. Or in other words, what's the max number vertexes there could to for an 80 faces insignia?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Oddgrim on December 03, 2013, 06:01:36 am
Okey, I have done some more thinking on the matter and a new 72 triangle limit would form a perfect square with 49 vertexes. (If anyone don't know , the retail limit is 8 triangles with 9 vertexes, highly impractical for any curved surface.)

edit: Perhaps 128 triangles would be even better?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Luis Dias on December 03, 2013, 06:16:51 am
...a new 72 triangle limit would form a perfect square with 49 vertexes.

(http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/c04/b76/c73/icon/jackie-chan-wtf.jpg)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Grizzly on December 03, 2013, 08:16:14 am
Thanks Mjn,

Just curious, what actually is the MediaVP roadmap/release schedule/whatsever?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hellzed on December 03, 2013, 08:28:40 am
Any chance we get a beta 2 once most of the LOD issues are fixed ?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Yarn on December 03, 2013, 12:31:12 pm
So, no links for old mediavps (pre 3.6.12)? That's disappointing.
The 3.6.12 MediaVP release thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70736.0) does have a link to the 3.6.10 MediaVPs--just look near the very top of that post.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: JCDNWarrior on December 03, 2013, 09:52:19 pm
Edit: Disregard original post, forgot to adjust the mod.ini file.

BP2 does throw out a bunch of glowpoint errors now though.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 03, 2013, 09:57:17 pm
Mod creators have been privately reached out to and asked to check for such compatibility issues. FSU only tests against retail FS. There are too many mods for us to test against each of them.

That is to say, I have no doubt BP2 throws errors, but I'm not going to look into why. I'll wait until I hear back from someone on the BP team if it's something FSU needs to deal with or a simple change for their modpack.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: JCDNWarrior on December 03, 2013, 10:03:02 pm
Perfectly understandable, I already assumed that, as well. I was just considering if it would somehow be of help, though. I'll look forward to see compatibilities from other mods come about.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Macfie on December 03, 2013, 10:52:34 pm
Tried using the MediaVPs_2014 beta with the FSPort mod and haven't experienced any problems.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: niffiwan on December 04, 2013, 02:37:30 am
Okey, I have done some more thinking on the matter and a new 72 triangle limit would form a perfect square with 49 vertexes. (If anyone don't know , the retail limit is 8 triangles with 9 vertexes, highly impractical for any curved surface.)

edit: Perhaps 128 triangles would be even better?

:)  OK - 128 tri's/faces and how many vertexes?  128 also? 
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Oddgrim on December 04, 2013, 03:58:02 am
Okey, I have done some more thinking on the matter and a new 72 triangle limit would form a perfect square with 49 vertexes. (If anyone don't know , the retail limit is 8 triangles with 9 vertexes, highly impractical for any curved surface.)

edit: Perhaps 128 triangles would be even better?

:)  OK - 128 tri's/faces and how many vertexes?  128 also? 

The correct would be 128 triangles, 64 faces, 81 vertexes.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5435/tizv.png)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: niffiwan on December 04, 2013, 04:25:07 am
Thanks! I've just committed those new limits, and I may even make the nightly (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=173.0)  today :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Kodachi on December 04, 2013, 11:06:49 am
Sweet! So far no problems have arisen.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 04, 2013, 12:21:06 pm
I get a disappearing Sathanas after 2 seconds in "Sath Test" single mission and a crash with debug version. I am using the newest nightly build (released today). The log is in my post.

Also, it seems the HUD is no longer stretched in the normal build with 1920x1080 monitor! Hooray! However, few gauges were positioned oddly, especially in the down right section. The "main brackets" seem to be too far separated also.

(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/screen0081.png)

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 04, 2013, 12:27:58 pm
However, few gauges were positioned oddly, especially in the down right section. The "main brackets" seem to be too far separated also.

With a widescreen monitor, you're going to have to stretch either the coordinates or the hud elements.  If you don't like either option, use a standard ratio resolution.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: niffiwan on December 04, 2013, 12:37:20 pm
However, few gauges were positioned oddly, especially in the down right section. The "main brackets" seem to be too far separated also.

With a widescreen monitor, you're going to have to stretch either the coordinates or the hud elements.  If you don't like either option, use a standard ratio resolution.

Only until Yarns HUD patch get into trunk  ;7
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Kolgena on December 04, 2013, 02:09:11 pm
I's dangerous to go alone. Take this!

Code: [Select]
$Load Retail Configuration: NO
$Max directives: 8
$Max escort ships: 8

#Gauge Config
$Base: (1366,768)
$Min: (1024,768)
$Max: (1920,1200)
$Gauges:
+Messages:
Position: (5,5)
+Training Messages:
Position: (550,125)
+Multiplayer Messages:
Position: (179,240)
+Support:
Position: (630,534)
+Damage:
Position: (611,61)
+Wingman Status:
Position: (1274,144)
+Auto Speed:
Position: (1302,672)
+Auto Target:
Position: (1302,648)
+Countermeasures:
Position: (1222,602)
+Talking Head:
Position: (5,59)
+Directives:
Position: (5,278)
+Weapons:
Position: (1222,525)
+Objective Notify:
Position: (607,184)
+Squad Message:
Position: (1169,5)
+Escort View:
Position: (1207,330)
+ETS Retail:
Position: (1222,648)
;+ETS Weapons:
Position: (1222,648)
;+ETS Shields:
Position: (1240,648)
;+ETS Engines:
Position: (1258,648)
+Target Monitor:
Position: (5,590)
+Extra Target Data:
Position: (5,552)
+Target Shields:
Position: (429,670)
+Radar:
Position: (582,590)
+Player Shields:
Position: (839,670)
+Afterburner Energy:
Position: (445,424)
+Weapon Energy:
Position: (837,424)
+Text Warnings:
Position: (683,275)
+Center Reticle:
Position: (664,370)
+Mini Target Shields:
Position: (668,470)
+Throttle:
Position: (517,269)
+Threat Indicator:
Position: (745,269)
+Voice Status:
Position: (5,165)
+Ping:
Position: (1067,5)
+Lag:
Position: (798,529)
+Supernova:
Position: (170,179)
+Hostile Triangle:
Position: (683,384)
+Target Triangle:
Position: (683,384)
+Missile Triangles:
Position: (683,384)
+Orientation Tee:
Position: (683,384)
+Target Brackets:
+Lead Indicator:
+Lock Indicator:
+Offscreen Indicator:
Position: (683,384)
+Mission Time:
Position: (1311,716)
+Kills:
Position: (1222,624)
$End Gauges
#End


Will be useless once Yarn's done, but in the interim, why not. The center reticle is properly shaped so you don't get funny business like missile indicators ending up inside the brackets.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 04, 2013, 02:22:05 pm
MediaVPs 2014 beta 2 will include a new hud gauges table made by the man Yarn, himself. Just FYI. Be sure to check that out when I get Beta 2 out.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 04, 2013, 02:34:43 pm
I's dangerous to go alone. Take this!

Thanks, but.. How do I use that? I remember something about custom HUD tables, but I couldn't find info, so I just assured that I had to make hud_gauges.tbl file with notepad (Copy&Paste) and then put the file into mediavps_2014_beta\data\tables. It seems I did something wrong, since nothing happened :/
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Kolgena on December 04, 2013, 03:38:34 pm
paste it into notepad, save as "mv_root-hdg.tbm" (without .txt at the end), put it in mediavps###\data\tables. If the directory doesn't exist, make it.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Kodachi on December 04, 2013, 04:27:38 pm
OK so far I have one problem: Shivan ships don't show any shields when I hit hem with weapons fire.
Anyone else having this problem? I'm running 3.7.1.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 04, 2013, 09:20:43 pm
Some errors we found while testing with Scroll.  This isn't comprehensive yet.

Turret object not found for turret firing point in model
(for HTL ravana, reported to be fixed)

WARNING: "Model 'Astaroth.pof': insignia uses an invalid LOD (-1)" at modelread.cpp:2211
(reported to be fixed)

WARNING: "For ship 'GVF Tauret', detail level mismatch. Table has 5, POF has 4." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table also hav 4, so the MVP table needs adjusting)

WARNING: "For ship 'GVC Mentu', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Mentu needs an additional LOD)

WARNING: "For ship 'SF Dragon', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Dragon needs an additional LOD)

WARNING: "For ship 'SB Seraphim', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Seraphim needs an additional LOD)

WARNING: "Invalid subobj_num or model_num in subsystem 'sensors' on ship type 'GVF Ptah'. Not linking into ship!  (This warning means that a subsystem was present in the table entry and not present in the model it should probably be removed from the table or added to the model.)" at ship.cpp:5578

WARNING: "After ship_copy_subsystem_fixup, ship 'GVF Ptah' does not have subsystem 'X' linked into the model file, 'HTLPtah.pof'.  (Ship_info model is 'HTLPtah.pof' and subsystem model is 'NULL'.)" at ship.cpp:15766, where X is each of:
sensors
Communication
Weapons
Navigation
Engine


WARNING: "After ship_copy_subsystem_fixup, ship 'SB Seraphim' does not have subsystem 'X' linked into the model file, 'Seraphim.pof'.  (Ship_info model is 'Seraphim.pof' and subsystem model is 'NULL'.)" at ship.cpp:15766, where X is each of:
turret01
turret02
sensors
communication
engine
weapons
navigation
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 04, 2013, 11:02:18 pm
I get a disappearing Sathanas after 2 seconds in "Sath Test" single mission and a crash with debug version. I am using the newest nightly build (released today). The log is in my post.

I've checked out that mission based on the changes I've made in our SVN. I can't reproduce the issue. Please be sure to re-check it when I get Beta 2 out soon.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: BritishShivans on December 04, 2013, 11:30:49 pm
Some errors we found while testing with Scroll.  This isn't comprehensive yet.

Turret object not found for turret firing point in model
(for HTL ravana, reported to be fixed)

WARNING: "Model 'Astaroth.pof': insignia uses an invalid LOD (-1)" at modelread.cpp:2211
(reported to be fixed)

WARNING: "For ship 'GVF Tauret', detail level mismatch. Table has 5, POF has 4." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table also hav 4, so the MVP table needs adjusting)

WARNING: "For ship 'GVC Mentu', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Mentu needs an additional LOD)

WARNING: "For ship 'SF Dragon', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Dragon needs an additional LOD)

WARNING: "For ship 'SB Seraphim', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Seraphim needs an additional LOD)

WARNING: "Invalid subobj_num or model_num in subsystem 'sensors' on ship type 'GVF Ptah'. Not linking into ship!  (This warning means that a subsystem was present in the table entry and not present in the model it should probably be removed from the table or added to the model.)" at ship.cpp:5578

WARNING: "After ship_copy_subsystem_fixup, ship 'GVF Ptah' does not have subsystem 'X' linked into the model file, 'HTLPtah.pof'.  (Ship_info model is 'HTLPtah.pof' and subsystem model is 'NULL'.)" at ship.cpp:15766, where X is each of:
sensors
Communication
Weapons
Navigation
Engine


WARNING: "After ship_copy_subsystem_fixup, ship 'SB Seraphim' does not have subsystem 'X' linked into the model file, 'Seraphim.pof'.  (Ship_info model is 'Seraphim.pof' and subsystem model is 'NULL'.)" at ship.cpp:15766, where X is each of:
turret01
turret02
sensors
communication
engine
weapons
navigation


Wait, is there a new HTL Ravana? Or is it still the same model?  :confused:
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 04, 2013, 11:37:27 pm
Never mind the Ravana; that's still under investigation.  It may even be a SCP bug.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Oddgrim on December 05, 2013, 06:38:28 am

WARNING: "For ship 'GVC Mentu', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
(retail POF and table have 4, so HTL Mentu needs an additional LOD)


fixed.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Luis Dias on December 05, 2013, 06:56:11 am
The Ravana was going to be modeled by Rga_Noris after his modelling the Moloch.

However, he apparently thought that taking care of his own real life was more important than modelling ships for a 15 year old game. Strange decisions, but hey.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 05, 2013, 08:23:19 am
Rga had a baby and never looked back... :(
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 05, 2013, 02:23:31 pm
More messages from Macfie's testing.  This should be current until Beta 2 comes out.

Code: [Select]
WARNING: "Model 'artemis.pof': insignia uses an invalid LOD (-1)" at modelread.cpp:2211

WARNING: "Model 'artemisDH.pof': insignia uses an invalid LOD (-1)" at modelread.cpp:2211

WARNING: "For ship 'GVSG Edjo', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
retail table and POF has 3; table needs to be adjusted

WARNING: "For ship 'SF Manticore', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
retail table and POF has 4; LOD needs to be added to HTL Manticore

WARNING: "For ship 'SB Nephilim', detail level mismatch. Table has 4, POF has 3." at ship.cpp:9018
retail table and POF has 4; LOD needs to be added to HTL Nephilim

WARNING: "Invalid subobj_num or model_num in subsystem 'turret01' on ship type 'SB Seraphim'. Not linking into ship!  (This warning means that a subsystem was present in the table entry and not present in the model it should probably be removed from the table or added to the model.)" at ship.cpp:5578

WARNING: "Invalid subobj_num or model_num in subsystem 'turret02' on ship type 'SB Seraphim'. Not linking into ship!  (This warning means that a subsystem was present in the table entry and not present in the model it should probably be removed from the table or added to the model.)" at ship.cpp:5578
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 05, 2013, 03:55:35 pm
OK so far I have one problem: Shivan ships don't show any shields when I hit hem with weapons fire.
Anyone else having this problem? I'm running 3.7.1.

Yes, actually both the Vasudans and the Shivans don't show the shield hit animations (ShieldHit02a and ShieldHit03a). But on the Terran ships the effect shows up normally (ShieldHit01a)

I'm testing on a fresh vanilla install with only this new beta VPs added. Maybe it's some problem with the species.tbl or mv_effects-sdf.tbm?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 05, 2013, 04:17:47 pm
Please report it on mantis so I don't forget to investigate. Link in sig.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 05, 2013, 04:35:02 pm
Please report it on mantis so I don't forget to investigate. Link in sig.

Mantised.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 06, 2013, 07:42:27 am
paste it into notepad, save as "mv_root-hdg.tbm" (without .txt at the end), put it in mediavps###\data\tables. If the directory doesn't exist, make it.

I'm sorry, but it still doesn't work. Now the unstretched but baddly aligned HUD is replaced with a streched HUD with good gauge alignment (like the "original"). What the hell  :lol:

I guess I should just wait until Beta 2. Does it perhaps come out before the new year  :) ?


EDIT: Never mind, I got it working.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 06, 2013, 09:42:46 am
The shield hit ani thing was a SCP bug, and it should be fixed in the next nightly build.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 06, 2013, 12:02:50 pm
By the way, do the models fix any bugs that existed in retail?  For example, I know that some ships (especially Shivan fighters) had incorrect docking points, and the Asmodeus lacks names for three of its four dockpoints.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 06, 2013, 12:14:42 pm
If there are bugs you want fixed, please mantis them with specifics.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Goober5000 on December 06, 2013, 11:34:18 pm
Turns out the Asmodeus has already had the dockpoint fixes applied.  So I Mantised a bunch of mission bugs instead. :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Hellzed on December 07, 2013, 02:34:42 am
I quite don't understand what i'm seeing in the mantis bugtracker...
Has the policy regarding retail missions changed recently ? I thought factual errors and (even broken) event behaviour were not supposed to be fixed.

This one for example : http://www.hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=988
Or this one : http://www.hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=987
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 07, 2013, 03:35:01 am
Things like that have been fixed before. For example, Hercs used to show up in the second mission when the VO was talking about Lokis.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 07, 2013, 05:36:51 am
Some feedback from the FS2 campaign (although I'm not sure if these problems are also present in mediaVP_3612):

Feint, Parry, Riposte:

- Some odd dialog desynchronization when the NTD Repulse (if I remember correctly) is instakilled before it can even accelerate towards Colossus

The First SOC mission (where you have to escort Iceni and science vessel Hinton)

- This mission is way harder than I remembered (I play on medium). In fact, I think it might be just impossible now. I tried at least 20 times, and each time the Iceni just could not destroy the Vasudan corvette Sobek. Each and every time, the Sobek destroys the Iceni. It seems that Iceni just stops firing after the first beam volley. And yes, I destroy every bomber way before they get too close. The problem is that this mission is currently out of player control: Corvettes are immune to fighter weapons. Hinton is also very easily destroyed by the asteroids.

-----
Also,

The GVF Seth looks a bit odd in the tech room. It has some irregular lighting pixels all over it. I used the "Baseline recommended" preset with -no_emissive_light.

I used the 6th of December Nightly build.

EDIT: Gah, some typos
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 07, 2013, 11:25:33 am
I've updated the first post. Beta 2 has been released. Please go and download the updated files.

Be sure to remove MV_Beta.vp as it is no longer necessary.

I'm hoping this pack resolves the model related issues. I have not touched any mission related issues.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 07, 2013, 12:31:16 pm
The First SOC mission (where you have to escort Iceni and science vessel Hinton)

- This mission is way harder than I remembered (I play on medium). In fact, I think it might be just impossible now. I tried at least 20 times, and each time the Iceni just could not destroy the Vasudan corvette Sobek. Each and every time, the Sobek destroys the Iceni. It seems that Iceni just stops firing after the first beam volley. And yes, I destroy every bomber way before they get too close. The problem is that this mission is currently out of player control: Corvettes are immune to fighter weapons. Hinton is also very easily destroyed by the asteroids.

I had to C-3-1 the Sobek to get the Iceni to start firing at it again, and then it was easy. But I'm not sure why it stopped beam fire in the first place.

Also, shield hit anis play normal again with the latest nightly build.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 07, 2013, 12:34:57 pm
Maybe there's a disarm or an ignore (instead of ignore-new) order sexped in somewhere ? Both might very well interfere with AI attacking the Sobek properly.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 07, 2013, 02:19:35 pm
Here is a Seth comparison (with Beta 2 update):

Beta_2014
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/2014_seth_1.bmp)(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/2014_seth_2.bmp)

3612
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/3612_seth_1.bmp)(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/3612_seth_2.bmp)

Using "Baseline recommended" lighting preset with -no_emissive_light.

So far none of the other models in the tech room have this problem except for GVF Seth. The lighting isn't "smooth" like in all the other ships. Or is this intentional?

--------

BTW, I'm sorry to say, but the Beta2 didn't fix the disappearing Sathanas problem in "Sath Test" single mission. Symptoms are the same (so you should probably refer to my previous FS2_open.log file). It's there for 2 seconds, and then poof, it's gone.

Using 6th of December Nightly build.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 07, 2013, 03:54:40 pm
The Seth is due to it's normal map. That's just how it is.

And no. Old log won't help cause old files.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Kolgena on December 08, 2013, 02:42:21 am
Things like that have been fixed before. For example, Hercs used to show up in the second mission when the VO was talking about Lokis.

The other mission where there is mismatch of fighter and voice files is the Renenet saying that there are two wings of Maras at the portal, despite the fact that only Astaroths exist at the portal. Imo, they should be replaced with Maras because the captain of the Corvette is unlikely to be derptarded.

As an aside, that second mission where the hercs get replaced by lokis is much, much harder than retail. Lokis with subachs >> Hercs with promRs.

(High noon is another mission with controversy over whether things should be fixed/changed or not. Most people like the mission with all your friendly cap ships properly beam-freed, but un-disabling the Colossus has broken the mission for m before)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Mongoose on December 08, 2013, 03:26:26 am
(High noon is another mission with controversy over whether things should be fixed/changed or not. Most people like the mission with all your friendly cap ships properly beam-freed, but un-disabling the Colossus has broken the mission for m before)
I suspect you mean Their Finest Hour by this one. :p

And yeah, I think we have to be careful when changing ships just based on the dialog.  I'd assume the reason why they were mismatched in the first place was because of :v: doing a bit of last-minute balance adjusting, so changing them back could wind up making missions a lot harder (or easier) than they originally were.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 08, 2013, 09:00:22 am
We changed the Renenet audio for that one. I'm going to look into change the audio for the Loki as well.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Kodachi on December 08, 2013, 11:12:46 am
I just tried the BETA 2 and the Seth, Osiris and some other ships no longer use HTL models but instead the low quality original models in FS Port. Anyone else having this problem?

The shield ani is fixed, so thumbs up for that.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 08, 2013, 12:55:58 pm
I just tried the BETA 2 and the Seth, Osiris and some other ships no longer use HTL models but instead the low quality original models in FS Port. Anyone else having this problem?

Don't test it against the FSPort, because the Port has its own set of MediaVPs that will need to be released to be compatible with this set.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Kodachi on December 08, 2013, 02:48:12 pm
OK, I'm just a bit confused because the first BETA upgraded the models in FS Port as well.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 08, 2013, 02:50:02 pm
The first Beta was literally "here's what's on our SVN... GO". It had random files and table entries all over the place, including some entries specifically for FSPort. Those entries would never have been included with the MediaVPs2014. I have already reached out to the FSPort guys to fixup their tables.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Ulala on December 08, 2013, 06:38:41 pm
Feint, Parry, Riposte:

- Some odd dialog desynchronization when the NTD Repulse (if I remember correctly) is instakilled before it can even accelerate towards Colossus


I had this same problem, not sure if it should be mantised or if mission specific issues go elsewhere.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Kodachi on December 09, 2013, 12:17:41 am
I have the same problem with the NTD Repulse. Already in 3.6.12 it was killed before it could collide with the Colossus, but now it is destroyed even earlier.

Someone also mentioned that the first SOC mission had become more difficult. I concur. The Iceni is not able to take out that Sobek in time.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: An4ximandros on December 09, 2013, 02:43:42 am
Seeing all the bugs makes me wonder if anyone would be up for doing a remake of the FS2 campaign...

And yeah. I always had the Repulse get owned by the Colli as soon as the XO went: "...Willing to die for neoterra!" Now it's even faster. :P
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 09, 2013, 04:29:32 am
Another possible issue:

Capital ships in the nebula seem to appear 100 % visible for a few seconds every now and then. And then they are again properly obscured in the mist. This happens regardless whether you are 2 kms away or 100 meters away.

The Aquitaine in "Proving Grounds" seems to be especially problematic. It's like every I time I face it, it takes 2 seconds to hide itself in the nebula. This definitely represents a different behaviour than I remember. Usually capital ships are totally obscured until you get very close.

Can anyone else confirm this?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Rodo on December 09, 2013, 06:49:47 am
Yeah I've seen it happen as well, but could not reach a conclusion as to what might cause the issue. Used to think it was a lighting calculation problem from the code but the thing is just not reproducible.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: The E on December 09, 2013, 07:25:09 am
Another possible issue:

Capital ships in the nebula seem to appear 100 % visible for a few seconds every now and then. And then they are again properly obscured in the mist. This happens regardless whether you are 2 kms away or 100 meters away.

The Aquitaine in "Proving Grounds" seems to be especially problematic. It's like every I time I face it, it takes 2 seconds to hide itself in the nebula. This definitely represents a different behaviour than I remember. Usually capital ships are totally obscured until you get very close.

Can anyone else confirm this?

This is not a bug in the mediavps; It sounds more like it's either a bug in the graphics code, or the GPU driver.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 09, 2013, 08:07:14 am
This is not a bug in the mediavps; It sounds more like it's either a bug in the graphics code, or the GPU driver.

Oh? I've sunk dozens of playtime hours during the past few weeks using MediaVP_3612 - numerous nebula missions included. This bug didn't happen even once, so I naturally thought that this was problem with the new MediaVP.

OR it could also be the 6th December nightly build. I've only used it with the new MediaVP, so I should probable combine it with old MediaVP to see, if the problem is in the executable.

I'll report later.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: The E on December 09, 2013, 08:14:46 am
This is not a bug in the mediavps; It sounds more like it's either a bug in the graphics code, or the GPU driver.

Oh? I've sunk dozens of playtime hours during the past few weeks using MediaVP_3612 - numerous nebula missions included. This bug didn't happen even once, so I naturally thought that this was problem with the new MediaVP.

OR it could also be the 6th December nightly build. I've only used it with the new MediaVP, so I should probable combine it with old MediaVP to see, if the problem is in the executable.

I'll report later.

Trust me on this. If there are assets in the mediavps that are triggering this bug, it's a bug in the engine, not the assets.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Luis Dias on December 09, 2013, 08:40:36 am
I haven't perused this beta myself yet, but aren't the nebulas used here the new nebulas? These could be the source of the problem (I do recall that the new nebulas do have this problem now and then, although I think these glitches are outweighed by the awesomeness of the new nebulas...).

AFAIK, the nebula is hardcoded in a strange way, obligating formats (PCX?) that are not at all amusing to code around and Zacam was pretty frustrated with this issue.

Until some Valathil - level genius comes around and "fixes" the code for the nebula for good, we will have always strange glitches, etc., IMHO.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 09, 2013, 08:55:35 am
Lykurgos88 also has the disappearing Sath issue that I can't reproduce.. so I'm inclined to believe that he is suffering from a GPU issue or some other local setup issue. The nebula stuff could also be mixed with a random bug issue, who knows.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 09, 2013, 09:22:35 am
Quote
Lykurgos88 also has the disappearing Sath issue that I can't reproduce.

This was actually a bit problematic to test with Beta 2, since the mission file was apparently included in the Beta.vp -file, which I first FORGOT to delete when installing Beta2. After I deleted the Beta.vp though, I can't really tell if the problem is there or not. Is that SathTest -mission easy to make in the FRED, or should I get the mission file somewhere else?

Quote
Trust me on this. If there are assets in the mediavps that are triggering this bug, it's a bug in the engine, not the assets.

Quote
I'm inclined to believe that he is suffering from a GPU issue or some other local setup issue. The nebula stuff could also be mixed with a random bug issue, who knows.

I deleted the Beta.vp file before entering nebula missions, so think my installation is now solid.

BUT there is actually another thing I just remembered doing before changing to MediaVP_beta_2014: I updated my graphics drivers to 331.82 version (I have Geforce GTX 770). So is it perhaps possible, that this is a GPU driver related issue? At least I haven't encountered any massive rendering problems in other games.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 09, 2013, 01:31:23 pm
Looking through the differnt LODs:

- LOD0 of the Ares has a vertical offset (higher than the lower LODs)
- LOD0 of the Myrmidon has a longitudinal offset (further back than the lower LODs)

And wasn't there a HTL Zephyrus released some time ago? (or am I just remembering WIP screenshots?)

Also, LOD distances are a tad on the conservative side, I have set the model detail slider to max, and on fighters and asteroids the LOD switching is quite noticeable. It makes sense to set the LOD distances of high-poly models so that they are actually used, but IMHO these distances should be calibrated to the medium detail settings, so that the player has the option to adjust in both directions.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 09, 2013, 01:50:39 pm
I understand what you are saying, but there is absolutely no chance that I'm going to manually go through and tweak every LOD distance ever. I simply don't have the capacity to do that and the rest of the FSU team seems to be on an extended hiatus or something.

No new ships, whether proven previously completed or not, will be added to the MediaVPs at this point. If you wanted them in, you should have pointed them out after Beta 1.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: JCDNWarrior on December 09, 2013, 02:08:42 pm
While understandable, I would like the MediaVPs to be as complete as possible for convenience and ease of management.
Every new ship that replaces retail ships that I have to add to my mod instead of being part of the MediaVPs would get me closer to the ship table limit (or at least the F3 lab navigation limit) and raise the file size of the mod, which would be an inconvenience.

(Quick Edit addition): If it's a case of lack of time, perhaps others could assist you?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 09, 2013, 03:16:05 pm
It's a case of 'code freeze'. The MediaVPs2014 are as complete as they are going to be.

This is easily the largest, most comprehensive, and most complete MediaVPs release ever... I think you can wait a little longer for whatever asset you think is completed enough to make this release.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 09, 2013, 04:15:31 pm
How many people in FSU are in college?  It's worth noting that this would be finals period for them.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 09, 2013, 05:37:39 pm
I understand what you are saying, but there is absolutely no chance that I'm going to manually go through and tweak every LOD distance ever. I simply don't have the capacity to do that and the rest of the FSU team seems to be on an extended hiatus or something.

This I can understand very well :)
But then you might consider to remove the "$Detail distance" lines from mv_root-shp.tbm, because that one defines custom LOD distances for every ship, and they are all roughly 20% smaller than the retail values.
So, someone once defined those values, but they don't seem to fit the FSU models very well, and they sort of break the model detail slider option.

EDIT: About the Zephyrus, looking through old threads, it appears I was remembering Galemp's HTL model, but that one was never stable enough to be included in the media VPs.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 09, 2013, 07:36:28 pm
HTL models have their own detail distance in MV_Assets that the modelers supposed to have included. Though again, that's way too much for me to check. I have the understanding that Vasudan Admiral fixed the detail distances in MV_Root. So if you are all done second guessing.... I would rather spend my time making sure these VPs don't crash FSO instead of catering to what everyone thinks is best.

Harsh as it may sound, I simply can't spend all my time making sure that every aspect of a mod this big pleases all of the people ever.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 10, 2013, 11:36:06 am
1. Are FS2 campaign related problems supposed to be listed here or is there a more suitable place for them? Should there be a thread dedicated to them perhaps? And is there any collaborative effort to attempt to fix them?  ;)

-----

2. Regarding the nebula rendering issue, I think I found a clear regression between builds 3.7.1.10150 and 3.7.1.10201 (6th December). Here is what I found when testing two missions: "A game of TAG" and "Proving Grounds"

Build 10150: No problem with the "Game of TAG". In "Proving Grounds" I actually managed to get Aquitaine flicker 100 % visible for two seconds, but only once during the whole mission. Doesn't really bother the overall experience.

Build 10201: The 2 Deimos corvettes in "Game of TAG" flicker 100 % visible several times when I turn to face them, but not always. The Aquitaine in "Proving Grounds" is even worse, it flickers 100% visible almost every time I turn to face it.

How to reproduce: The flickers don't start immediately. There has to be some action first: flying missiles, projectiles and such. In "Proving Grounds" the problem escalates when the Shican Moloch corvette jumps in.

What I used as graphical options: Baseline recommended lighting preset and -no_emissive_light -ogl_spec 80. All the graphical options enabled in the wxLauncher.

This is by no means a game-breaking issue, and non-nebula missions have no rendering issues whatsoever. But as people more wise and experienced than me have concluded, this has nothing to do with the MediaVPs, so should I make a new thread, or is there an existing one regarding this specific nebula problem?  :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 10, 2013, 11:38:32 am
If there's a change between builds then it's an SCP issue. Go to SCP's mantis and file a bug report.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 10, 2013, 11:42:17 am
Quote
If there's a change between builds then it's an SCP issue. Go to SCP's mantis and file a bug report.

Ah, sorry. I originally thought that Mantis was an "insider thing" dedicated only for the SCP core team, but apparently anyone can log in. So that's why I've been using the forum to attract attention for the problems I have found.

I'll proceed to make a new account to Mantis later today.  ;)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 10, 2013, 11:49:20 am
Quote
HTL models have their own detail distance in MV_Assets that the modelers supposed to have included. Though again, that's way too much for me to check. I have the understanding that Vasudan Admiral fixed the detail distances in MV_Root. So if you are all done second guessing.... I would rather spend my time making sure these VPs don't crash FSO instead of catering to what everyone thinks is best.

The thing is that mv_assets-shp.tbm doesn't define detail distances for most its entries (but it does for some). Also, if we're still loading VPs in alphabetical order, MV_Assets is loaded before MV_Root, so some detail distance settings are loaded from MV_Assets and some from MV_Root, which further complicates things.

Look, I'm not trying to impose my personal taste on the media VP tables, but I thought the purpose of this beta release was to identify things like this, where you have missing/conflicting data in the various modular tables.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Rodo on December 10, 2013, 01:12:26 pm
I'm thinking... flickering ships in nebula could be related to the engine switching between lods?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: JGZinv on December 10, 2013, 06:32:31 pm
Since supposedly some LOD issues were fixed with this, can I get some clarification on how to fix this:

Code: [Select]
For asteroid 'Small Asteroid', detail level
mismatch (POF needs 3)
<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! RegisterWaitForInputIdle + 73 bytes

Happens with Small, Medium, and Large asteroids, 2-3 identical errors each. We have a mainhall replacement with visible roids,
so it literally hits these each and every time you use the main menu. Roids that do show up, look like old low poly style roids.

Have tried with latest nightly and 3.7.0.

Log attached.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Yarn on December 10, 2013, 06:46:43 pm
Does this happen if Fringespace is not enabled?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: JGZinv on December 10, 2013, 06:52:57 pm
Going to probably have to give me a better description on how to test it then.
The mainhall / mission is integrated as part of the mod, I turn that off it's going to be a lot
of work to rip it out so it can work with FS2 assets only.

Would creating a new mission with just the same roids as the mainhall replacement,
and testing that without fringespace, be sufficient?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Yarn on December 10, 2013, 07:15:21 pm
The best way is probably to make a simple Fringespace mission with asteroids and see whether that triggers the warnings. If it does, then make the same mission again for FS2 and test that with the 2014 MediaVPs.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: JGZinv on December 10, 2013, 08:16:13 pm
Ran mission with Fringe + '14 MVPs, nightly build, = errors same as before.

Ran same mission file with ships changed back to FSO compatibles, + '14 MVPs, no Fringe, = no errors under nightly build.

That narrows it down to being us somehow. I don't see what difference the (2) ships themselves would make, so that leaves it being
the scripting that controls the mainhall replacement. The only other thing is we've got some kind of duplicate file / reference problem
somewhere in the mod files, which is conflicting.

Oy vey this will probably take a while to track down.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 10, 2013, 10:20:56 pm
Check asteroid.tbl.

Retail asteroid POFs have 4 LODs. The MediaVPs versions only have 3. However, asteroid.tbl is not modular so either FSU needs to create a 4th LOD for every asteroid (about 15, I think) or we just include a full retail asteroid.tbl with the necessary changes.

For Beta 2, I opted for the latter. Hope that points you in the right direction.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 16, 2013, 08:30:59 am
1. It took me ridiculously long time to notice that the post processing feature (especially the "bloom" part") is a lot stronger in MediaVP_2014_beta than in MediaVP_3612. The nebulas are especially more colourful (even Blue nebulas contain some amount of red and green??) and saturated. But in the mission "Into the Lion's Den" (where Alpha attacks Shivan Comm Nodes) the bloom is now just TOO much. It blocks almost all the gauges with ludicrous brightness. I had to reduce Bloom intensity value to 10, which was more acceptable, but it still was bloomier than the same mission with MediaVP_3612 using default bloom value 75. Was this Bloom increase in the new MediaVP an intended feature, or a miscalculation?

2. Apparently the subsystem "Crystal" of the new Shivan Comm Nodes is now invulnerable. I tried attacking it from every direction, but it still remains at 100 %. I tried the same mission soon after with the old mediavps, and the crystal was vulnerable again. This does not prevent me from completing the mission, but it takes 5x more time to destroy Comm Nodes without destroying their Crystal first.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 16, 2013, 09:13:37 am
1. It took me ridiculously long time to notice that the post processing feature (especially the "bloom" part") is a lot stronger in MediaVP_2014_beta than in MediaVP_3612. The nebulas are especially more colourful (even Blue nebulas contain some amount of red and green??) and saturated. But in the mission "Into the Lion's Den" (where Alpha attacks Shivan Comm Nodes) the bloom is now just TOO much. It blocks almost all the gauges with ludicrous brightness. I had to reduce Bloom intensity value to 10, which was more acceptable, but it still was bloomier than the same mission with MediaVP_3612 using default bloom value 75. Was this Bloom increase in the new MediaVP an intended feature, or a miscalculation?
Bloom is set via command line (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Command-Line_Reference#-bloom_intensity), MVPs aren't to blame for this (default is 75, I'd suggest something around 40).

What is true is that the MVPs 2014 now have a post-processing table. You can just extract it from MV_Root, put it in Freespace2/mediavps_2014_beta/data/tables/ and change the values/enable or disable the properties to your convenience.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 16, 2013, 10:55:36 am
I know how the command line works. I said I set the bloom intensity to 10 already. There is a CLEAR difference in-game between the two mediaVPs using the same amount of bloom in the parameters. MediaVP_2014 is way bloomier.

To clarify:
MediaVP2014 is brighter with Bloom Intensity 10 than the MediaVP3612 is with Bloom intensity 75.

Why don't you try it for yourself? "Into the Lion's Den" is a perfect example.

I know, at first I refused to believe that there was a difference between MediaVPs, but there is.

EDIT: Here are screenshots for comparison. These two use identical builds and identical Bloom values but different MediaVPs.

MediaVP_3612 (http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/3612.png)
MediaVP_2014_Beta (http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/2014.png)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: The E on December 16, 2013, 11:06:45 am
Uh.

Yeah.

We got a few new nebula graphics in there. Of course the new MediaVPs look different than before. If they looked the same, we wouldn't have bothered releasing them.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 16, 2013, 11:07:55 am
Uh.

Yeah.

We got a few new nebula graphics in there. Of course the new MediaVPs look different than before. If they looked the same, we wouldn't have bothered releasing them.

Into the Lion's Den isn't in the Nebula... There is an overall increase in bloom everywhere.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: The E on December 16, 2013, 11:20:49 am
Into the Lion's Den isn't in the Nebula... There is an overall increase in bloom everywhere.

"Nebula graphics" refers not only to the actual fog graphics, but also to all the various nebulae that a mission designer can place on the background skysphere.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Luis Dias on December 16, 2013, 11:25:15 am
I will look further into this later this day... but I think your answers are not sufficient, The_E. The nebula graphics do look exactly the same, but the 2014 version are burn out... it does seem like bloom effect. The ships also look a lot more vibrant, saturated, etc. (I know they are different models, but still).

I do think he is detecting something here.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 11:27:56 am
I know what is going on, or at least part of it, and you can thank Axem.

In 3.6.12 all our background nebula graphics were horribly compressed to the point of ugly. Axem pointed that out and in MediaVPs 2014, the background graphics have been reverted to less horribly compressed images. That means they have more color data, less banding, and generally are more full. Ala, bigger bloom.

I will look further into this later this day... but I think your answers are not sufficient, The_E. The nebula graphics do look exactly the same, but the 2014 version are burn out... it does seem like bloom effect. The ships also look a lot more vibrant, saturated, etc. (I know they are different models, but still).

I do think he is detecting something here.

Ships being more vibrant is insignificant. Just about every ship in the screens posted are Shivans, which by the way, got complete makeovers from retail models and near retail textures. Of course they will be more vibrant.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 11:37:41 am
2. Apparently the subsystem "Crystal" of the new Shivan Comm Nodes is now invulnerable. I tried attacking it from every direction, but it still remains at 100 %. I tried the same mission soon after with the old mediavps, and the crystal was vulnerable again. This does not prevent me from completing the mission, but it takes 5x more time to destroy Comm Nodes without destroying their Crystal first.

Retail says no.

Played the retail mission 3 times to test this theory and I never could even damage the Crystal without first destroying some of the other subsystems first. Functionality is the same on the HTL model as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 16, 2013, 01:08:32 pm
Played the retail mission 3 times to test this theory and I never could even damage the Crystal without first destroying some of the other subsystems first. Functionality is the same on the HTL model as far as I can tell.

You are doing it wrong. It takes a bit of trying and error; you have to get close and aim the upper or lower part of the crystal. No other subsystems are needed to damage. "Into the lion's Den" is apparently scripted so that once the Crystal is destroyed, the whole Comm Node self-destructs. It saves a lot of time. I remember finding this weak point as a kid playing FS2 retail and being exited as hell. Don't you dare to say I remember it wrong :)

I captured a FRAPS video of me destroying the crystal (and crystal ONLY) in MediaVP_3612. It will probably take a lot of time to upload it though because of my ****ty upload speed.

It's a shame really that this trick doesn't work anymore in the MediaVP_2014_beta. It's not a game-breaking restriction by all means, but it's still a shame from a gameplay mechanics perspective.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 16, 2013, 01:13:44 pm
In 3.6.12 all our background nebula graphics were horribly compressed to the point of ugly. Axem pointed that out and in MediaVPs 2014, the background graphics have been reverted to less horribly compressed images. That means they have more color data, less banding, and generally are more full. Ala, bigger bloom.

Right. I suggest that the default Bloom intensity value should be lowered then. 75 is way too much for new nebula graphics.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 01:14:19 pm
Yeah.. that sounds more like taking advantage of a specific POF bug that I'm not going to bother to try and recreate. I can tell you that based on the POF data of retail, it should be completely (or apparently very near) impossible to just damage 'Crystal'.

It's pretty clearly a difference in the very locations of vertices and not anything else.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 16, 2013, 01:48:33 pm
You have the cause and effect reversed.  Volition intended the crystal to be destroyable, and if the retail POF is buggy, it's buggy in the sense that shooting directly at the crystal doesn't damage it, not that shooting at its edges does.  I myself have used the crystal trick many times.

Have a look at this Volition Bugfix of the Day (which was an unfortunate case of an issue being closed without properly investigating it)...

Quote
8.30.99
Item #: 3181
Original Date: 8/20/1999
From: Jim Boone to John Enricco

[Freespace 2] I have trouble causing damage to the crystal in the Shivan comm node. Damage does not seem to consistently be applied when I hit the crystal. It seems like I have more luck hitting the crystal if I aim for its edge rather than the center of the crystal.

John Enricco: What Jasen has told me is that sub-objects are damaged by shooting at any part of their geometry and that no areas are immune. Closing this item.

James Tsai: Closed then.

Crystal? What crystal? What Shivan commnode?

(from http://web.archive.org/web/20080317015244/http://www.freespace2.com/bfod.cfm)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 16, 2013, 02:31:22 pm
Here is the demonstration video for non-believers:


As you can see, shooting at the middle of crystal does nothing. However, if you aim at the top, the Crystal gets quickly destroyed even though other subsystems are barely touched. It has always been like this, ever since the retail FS2 days. And for some reason, you also have to be relatively close to succeed. Long range sniping is out of the question.

Even though this is apparently a bug, it becomes an awesome unintended feature, that is worth preserving. It rewards the player for good aiming. Actually I think that keeping this feature would allow the mission "Into the Lion's den" to be more faithful to the Volition's original vision, since Crystal subsystem was MEANT to be the "critical hit point".

I don't know if you have closed the development of the new HTL Comm node, but if you haven't, it would be a nice little detail to enable the destruction of Crystal subsystem the same way as in the video.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 02:33:50 pm
Well, we can't fix it without completely changing how the subsystems are placed in the POF which is generally an FSU no no. So in this case, mission takes the fall as I already stated.

It has nothing to do with just 'enabling destruction of the crystal.'

Actually, I think Goober should try to fix it. With all the complaining he has done to me about the MediaVPs being a moving target and POFs not being reliable because they change, etc. It should be interesting to see the solution.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 04:19:58 pm
Despite my already being confident in knowing it's a nearly unfixable problem (at least to fix within the rules of FSU), I spent my entire afternoon on it because clearly you all know better...

Investigation shows that this definitely not fixable in that it's a flaw in the design of the ship itself. There are too may bounding boxes, all rotating around and the mixture of all those bounding boxes into FSO's (shall I note here, rewritten) collision code makes it nigh impossible to create an HTL model with the exact same hitbox exploits.

Code: [Select]
<MjnMixael> i do not understand why the comm node is such a piece of ****
<MjnMixael> it must have something to do with all the overlapping bounding boxes
<MjnMixael> or SOMETHING
<MjnMixael> don't we have a wiki page with all the pcs2 subsystem properties listed?
<MjnMixael> i can't seem to find it
<MjnMixael> aha
<MjnMixael> http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Subobject_and_subsystem_properties#.24lod0_name
<MjnMixael> so helpfully without POF or PCS2.. well... anywhere on the page, making it so intuitive to find
<Oddgrim> well..
*** AdmiralNelson has joined #scp-fsu
*** The_E has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving.
<MjnMixael> screw it.. how about we hack a workaround?
<MjnMixael> yeah, that didn't work either
<Zacam-Work> K, what's exactly the issue?
<Oddgrim> :c
<MjnMixael> ok, yeah
<MjnMixael> the comm node is a mess of bounding boxes
<MjnMixael> and that is why you can't ever kill the subsystem you are targetting
<MjnMixael> it was like this in the original and it's still like that now, just differently
<Zacam-Work> Hmmm. One idea: Open it in PCS, "Purge BSP Cache" and save as a PMF, open the PMF and save that as a new POF and see if it's still borked?
<Zacam-Work> Convoluted, I know, and not likely to work, but worth a shot.
<MjnMixael> no, that's not what I mean
<MjnMixael> what I mean is that each subsystem has it's own spinning bounding box and there's a lot of them at unusually large sizes all mixing together
<MjnMixael> I know FSO uses that data to calculate damage
<MjnMixael> add in that Lykergos (and I remember this) says you need to be close to the Crystal in retail in order to hit it...
<MjnMixael> that tells me you need to be within a certain bounding box, while firing through to another or some mix therein of wierdness that finally allowed in the retail POF to actually hit the Crystal subsystem
<niffiwan|afk> gah - sounds damn complicated
<MjnMixael> which explains why I'm killing 'Blade 1' while shooting at the 'Upper Shell'
*** niffiwan|afk is now known as niffiwan|work
<MjnMixael> which also explains why it seems to be easier to hit the crystal after other subsystems are destroyed
<niffiwan|work> iirc there is some wierdness in applying damage to subsystems, I recall seeing a fix that would let multipart turret barrels properly take damage to the turret subsystem
<MjnMixael> what I would -need- to fix it properly is a way to tell FSO's collsion code.. 'hit this poly, this one RIGHT HERE, and ignore all bounding box decisions, and this will damage Subsystem X'
<niffiwan|work> I wonder which part of the code that's all in...
<MjnMixael> honestly, based on all my experimentation this afternoon.. I think the problem is much deeper... I expect you'd have to delve into all the collision code as well
<MjnMixael> the retail POF got lucky in having an exposed part of the crystal bounding box or somesuch
<niffiwan|work> urgh
<Zacam-Work> So, does it (the model) work on an older build or with the old_collision commandline (or whatever that was)?
<MjnMixael> i've no idea
<MjnMixael> let's find out
<MjnMixael> no
<MjnMixael> I think I could hack a different solution.. but it would be a hack for sure
<niffiwan|work> are there a bunch of overlapping subsystems in the commnode?
<Zacam-Work> Hit VA up on that idea of collision box model deal to simplify the hitbox detection?
<niffiwan|work> (I should probably just open the VP and see if I can drive PCS to figure it out...)
<MjnMixael> there are lots of overlapping subsystems
<MjnMixael> well
<MjnMixael> let's be clear
<MjnMixael> there's only one Special Point style subsystem that completely surrounds the Crystal subsystem
<MjnMixael> but then the bounding boxes for the Shell pieces and the blades also overlap each other and the crystal
<MjnMixael> ok, my hack works....
<Zacam-Work> \o/
<niffiwan|work> what was the hack?
<MjnMixael> a large Special Point type subsystem to replace the subobject type
<Zacam-Work> Oh, nice. Me likey.
<Oddgrim> brute force it in :p
<MjnMixael> that's what she said
<BotenAnna> yes, yes it is
<Oddgrim> who let _that_ thing in
<MjnMixael> it's a large enough sphere that I can get enough hits on it to actually destroy the subsystem
<Oddgrim> well it works so yay

In order to make something work like it used to, I had to break every single FSU rule we have about model replacement. I have no idea how that will affect other campaigns and missions, either.

So, thank you all for talking like I don't know what I'm doing. Here's your hacked fix.
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/mjnmixael/Private/ImageBin_zps14b41ee3.jpg)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Luis Dias on December 16, 2013, 04:23:38 pm
:yes: :yes: :yes:

That was very nice of you MJn! :D
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 16, 2013, 04:34:52 pm
Despite my already being confident in knowing it's a nearly unfixable problem (at least to fix within the rules of FSU), I spent my entire afternoon on it because clearly you all know better...

Yes, that is clearly the sentiment we intended to convey...


Quote
Investigation shows that this definitely not fixable in that it's a flaw in the design of the ship itself. There are too may bounding boxes, all rotating around and the mixture of all those bounding boxes into FSO's (shall I note here, rewritten) collision code makes it nigh impossible to create an HTL model with the exact same hitbox exploits.

Now that is interesting.  We already knew, from the Volition bug report, that there was some problem that prevented the crystal from taking hits even back in retail.  I suspect that if Volition had had the time to investigate the problem further, they would have made the same discovery.  This is the sort of unintended emergent behavior that happens when multiple complex systems interact with each other.

Lykurgos88, have you tested the retail Shivan Comm Node model with the latest FSO collision code?


Quote
In order to make something work like it used to, I had to break every single FSU rule we have about model replacement. I have no idea how that will affect other campaigns and missions, either.

Well, I do know that other campaigns and missions have used the crystal trick, but on the other hand they still allow you to destroy the comm node normally.  I'm curious as to the extent of rule-breaking though.  Is it as simple as adding an extra subsystem to deal with the Special Point overlapping the subobject, or is something else involved?

Regardless, thanks for your diligence, MjnMixael. :yes:
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 04:36:40 pm
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/mjnmixael/Private/ImageBin_zps4f83c046.jpg)

and so ends another episode of "Mjn hates the forums, fixes bugs". I'm going to go read a book. (le wut? I mean watch TV.)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Rodo on December 16, 2013, 04:55:01 pm
hahahaha, gotta admire the patience and dedication folks have in this community :D

We love you mjn, don't ever leave us please!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Mongoose on December 16, 2013, 05:23:20 pm
I honestly can't remember ever getting a clean shot on the crystal even with the original retail model.  I'd always wind up taking out the spinning blades first, and by the time I started doing appreciable damage to the crystal, the whole node was pretty much dead anyway.  The hack efforts are awesome, but I don't think any sane past campaign should have been relying on the original behavior in the first place, at least not if it was play-tested.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Luis Dias on December 16, 2013, 05:24:56 pm
Now people complain that the hack was totally unnecessary! :lol: MJN, I really feel your pain!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Hellzed on December 16, 2013, 06:24:49 pm
I remember hitting the crystal (with intact blades) with some Trebuchet missiles in MediaVPs 3610, and the whole Comm node was going down... Not sure if that can help.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 16, 2013, 06:57:38 pm
I recall once being able to Treb the crystal on all 3 Comm nodes in one run-through.  I believe that I WAS playing on Retail at the time.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 16, 2013, 08:50:51 pm
I'm going to reiterate that if issues aren't Mantis'd (see sig), then they probably won't be fixed unless I've directly commented on them here. I'm not browsing this thread for bugs.

So...

(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/mjnmixael/Private/mantis_zps6788e3b0.png)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: blowfish on December 17, 2013, 02:22:51 am
I've been playing through the main campaign with the new mediavps and found a few issues:


Other things that are probably so minor they aren't even worth worrying about:

Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 17, 2013, 05:51:50 am
Lykurgos88, have you tested the retail Shivan Comm Node model with the latest FSO collision code?

I used the build 10222 in the Youtube video. Are there any collision fixes in newer builds?

To mjn.mixael:

Holy hell, I had no idea that this would be so much trouble. Sorry about my insistence, but thanks anyway for your effort :) I would really like contribute to FSO myself, but so far I haven't learned enough of the mechanics, so reporting potential bugs and problems is the least I can do.

Oh, and by the way, I believe I no longer have the disappearing Sathanas problem. I think it was a Beta 1 issue. I completed the entire in FS2 campaign in Beta2 and had no problems with the new (and gorgeous) Sathanas model :)

-----

With regards to the overly burnt bloom in MediaVP_2014, here is an in-nebula comparison. So it's not only the background texture that is affected, but nebula fog sprites too. In addition I'm not really sure what to think about the new green tint that pops every now and then in the 2014-version. I would prefer that the blue nebula consists only of different shades of blue like in MediaVP_3612, but I don't know what the majority thinks. However I think I can live the new nebula graphics when I greatly lower my bloom intensity value (these two picture use the default bloom intensity of 75).

MediaVP2014_Beta in-nebula (http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/2014_in-nebula.png)
MediaVP3612 in-nebula (http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/3612_in-nebula.png)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 17, 2013, 06:06:41 am
I... don't see much of a difference, really.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 17, 2013, 06:13:43 am
I... don't see much of a difference, really.

Look at left edge of the MediaVP_2014 screenshot. There is a green fog sprite that simply doesn't exist in the MediaVP_3612, at least not this vividly. You should probably try the Trinity mission yourself, so that you notice how much additional colors are added in-game.

EDIT: I should probably make a comparison video, side-by-side. It's much easier to spot in motion. BRB.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 17, 2013, 06:15:07 am
So you're complaining about improvements ?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 17, 2013, 06:18:28 am
So you're complaining about improvements ?

Improvement is subjective in this case. As I said, I don't claim to know the opinion of the majority in adding green sprites in a nebula that was previously Blue only. It's a matter of taste and personally I would prefer a blue nebula to be only blue, and red nebula being only red etc... Otherwise I get the feeling that I'm navigating in a rainbow :P

EDIT: Okay, I have to correct myself a bit. There is indeed a little bit of green in MediaVP_3612 also, but in MediaVP_2014 it is much more powerful. I just captured the fraps videos, it will take time to render and upload.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 17, 2013, 08:28:19 am
Bloom is not an issue of the MediaVPs and never will be. For bloom changes, go to SCP.

LOD 3 on the Ma'at is basically a box with mostly dark textures.  Is this even worth having?

Yes, of course it is. In fact, that's how much of retail worked too. LOD 3 is so far away that it really doesn't matter what is on it, and being a box, makes it the best LOD3 ever. (pyramid might be better?) Keeping LOD 3 allows us to not have to modify the number of values in $Detail Distance for the ship, which is desirable.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Luis Dias on December 17, 2013, 08:35:19 am
So I see the new nebula pofs didn't make it to the new mediavps... that's sad. Probably in 2015!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 17, 2013, 09:21:20 am
In "As Lightning Fall" I don't seem to be getting the sensor scrambling I usually do.  Did anyone else notice this?

Does this affect message scrambling too, or just sensors?


I used the build 10222 in the Youtube video. Are there any collision fixes in newer builds?

Build 10222 should have the newest collision code.  The collision rewrite happened some time ago.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Admiral Nelson on December 17, 2013, 11:04:45 am
I've been playing through the main campaign with the new mediavps and found a few issues:

  • In "As Lightning Fall" I don't seem to be getting the sensor scrambling I usually do.  Did anyone else notice this?


Were you using a debug build?  For some reason not all nebula effects are applied in debug.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 17, 2013, 11:56:57 am
So, I played now through the whole retail campaign without any showstoppers. There was one CTD in "Into the lions den", but I couldn't reproduce it so far.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: blowfish on December 17, 2013, 01:43:01 pm
Were you using a debug build?  For some reason not all nebula effects are applied in debug.

That's probably it.  Good to know.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: bcKq on December 18, 2013, 06:07:45 am
The nebulas are soo much blue now in the first 2 campaign missions... is it normal? Also the skybox (stars) look like it's more blacker, emptier (not really on screenshot, but when playing it is noticeable)
Comparison between 3612 and 2014:
3612:
http://i.imgur.com/2vZfZMy.jpg
2014:
http://i.imgur.com/9ZmqXKQ.jpg

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 18, 2013, 07:26:13 am
That's called post-processing.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 18, 2013, 08:06:18 am
The nebulas are soo much blue now in the first 2 campaign missions... is it normal? Also the skybox (stars) look like it's more blacker, emptier (not really on screenshot, but when playing it is noticeable)
Comparison between 3612 and 2014:
3612:
http://i.imgur.com/2vZfZMy.jpg
2014:
http://i.imgur.com/9ZmqXKQ.jpg

Really? A slight difference in color?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 18, 2013, 10:37:29 am
The bloom intensity difference is definitely there (especially those white burnt spots are more common) and it cannot be denied. Like Axem had apparently confirmed, the new nebula graphics (background and in-nebula) react more aggresively to the same bloom intensity value when post-processing is enabled.

Since FSU team apparently doesn't want to rebuild these nebula graphics, do I have to assume that I have to make a new topic in SCP main subforum to rediscuss the default value of Bloom intensity? Because 75 is way too much for MediaVP_2014 and many newbie players probably don't know how to change it.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 18, 2013, 10:46:46 am
You still have your order of operations wrong. Bloom is not the baseline option to which graphics are made to work with. The graphics are the baseline and you alter your bloom to work with them.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 18, 2013, 10:55:34 am
You still have your order of operations wrong. Bloom is not the baseline option to which graphics are made to work with. The graphics are the baseline and you alter your bloom to work with them.

That's exactly what I was saying :D Notice the word "react".

Now there is 2 ways to resolve this bloom difference.

1) Either revert back to 3612 nebulas (which is very unlikely in this case)
2) Greatly lower the default bloom value in SCP builds

Now the question is, how far down we should go? 75 was a good value with mediaVP3612, but horrible with mediaVP2014. I think a value of "15" is more suitable for mediaVP_2014 nebulas. Does anyone else agree?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 18, 2013, 11:13:40 am
If you understood what I said, you wouldn't even ask to revert to the 3612 nebulas.

Not only that, as I said the new nebulas are better, brighter, and more accurate to their original images.

(http://lazymodders.fsmods.net/axemart/FreeSpace/bandednebula.jpg)

Left is 2014, right is 3612. Which one do you want?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 18, 2013, 11:21:12 am
I understand perfectly what you said, but I think it's you who don't understand what I am saying. The new nebula, that has a higher quality, produces "white burnt spots" when enhanced by a default bloom intensity post-processing value of "75" and the older worse quality nebula does NOT produce overly saturated or white burnt spots when enhanced with default bloom post-processing.

Conclusion: The new nebula looks worse in the eye, because a lot of pixel information is lost in greatly exaggerated saturation created by the post-processing. It's a genuine image quality problem.

So, as I said, something needs to be done. Otherwise MediaVP2014 nebulas become a downgrade for players who use default post-processing settings.

For players that DON'T use post-processing, 2014 version is of course better.

EDIT: Spelling

EDIT2: Addition
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 18, 2013, 11:48:47 am
Alright, I promise this is my last post in this thread about bloom. I'm getting tired of it myself too :P

A comparison of a mild case blue nebula.

3612
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/3612_bloom_crop.bmp)

2014
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/olzie/Moebius/FSO_bughunt/2014_bloom_crop.bmp)

So as you see, an intensity of 75 effectively destroys the pixel details of MediaVP_2014 nebula that are still present in MediaVP_3612. 2014 might have a better resolution, but it won't matter if a larger portion is saturated by post-process bloom. So in the end, 3612 version is easier on the eye. This is not even the worst case. In some nebula backgrounds, MediaVP_2014 has white spots where MediaVP_3612 doesn't.

So this is why I think lowering the default value of bloom intensity is needed.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 18, 2013, 12:11:08 pm
I understand perfectly what you said, but I think it's you who don't understand what I am saying. The new nebula, that has a higher quality, produces "white burnt spots" when enhanced by a default bloom intensity post-processing value of "75" and the older worse quality nebula does NOT produce overly saturated or white burnt spots when enhanced with default bloom post-processing.

Yes, that's how bloom works. More pixels at a higher value will bloom more.

Conclusion: The new nebula looks worse in the eye, because a lot of pixel information is lost in greatly exaggerated saturation created by the post-processing. It's a genuine image quality problem.

Could mean either one here.. so let's hit both. It is not a problem in the image quality of the nebulas. And really it's not a problem in image quality in what is rendered by FSO with bloom. I think what you mean is that it's a problem with the final overall look. Fine, with 75 bloom... you think it looks bad. That has been clearly established.

So, as I said, something needs to be done. Otherwise MediaVP2014 nebulas become a downgrade for players who use default post-processing settings.
Then change your settings. There, simple. Hell, the new launcher has radio buttons for even the most intellectually challenged person to change their lighting settings. No idea if that affects bloom, though.. but I'm sure it could pretty easily.

For players that DON'T use post-processing, 2014 version is of course better.
Great. Wonderful. FSU is not in the business of making the mod work for every commandline setting one can think of... or even default. We upgrade the assets. Make sure it all works and then put it out there for you all to use. You all can, and do, have all kinds of lighting and bloom settings. Change them, tweak them, or whatever to your liking. And if you really want to keep making a big deal out of -bloom 75, as I've said before, SCP's board is elsewhere. However, you will need to make a convincing argument as to why MediaVPs 2014 is the mod that gets to define what the default settings are. There are so many mods and TCs that use FSO. How about Diaspora? Does -bloom 75 work for them? Why does MediaVPs 2014 get to be the standard to change that on them if it's working for them? What about TBP? Blue Planet? Inferno?

This is not and never will be a case of "2014 doesn't work with my light settings from 3612, please someone fix it." You fix it with your own commandline. That's why they are there.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Axem on December 18, 2013, 12:23:23 pm
1) Either revert back to 3612 nebulas (which is very unlikely in this case)

Just a note, the 3.6.12 nebulas are the same as the ones in beta 2. After the 3.6.12 mediavps were released, in the effort to reduce file and texture sizes, the nebulas were reconverted to dxt3, killing a lot of the fidelity and making them quite a bit darker. They were reverted after Beta 1. So there's no need to go back to the 3.6.12 nebulas... they already are.

(But I support your argument that the bloom intensity is too high... in general, not just for the mediavps. Why its not a tabled feature is beyond me...)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 18, 2013, 12:27:50 pm
Apparently just one more post.

-----

Quote
Then change your settings. There, simple. Hell, the new launcher has radio buttons for even the most intellectually challenged person to change their lighting settings.

FFS I KNOW HOW TO CHANGE MY BLOOM INTENSITY!!! This whole argument is around the default value. And I also considered a possibility of opening a new thread in a SCP build subforum, as I said in my earlier posts.

Quote
However, you will need to make a convincing argument as to why MediaVPs 2014 is the mod that gets to define what the default settings are.

2 ways: Either the SCP adjusts or the MediaVP adjusts. After all, MediaVP is a mod that 95 % of other mods refer to, and they very often use MediaVP nebula graphics. So I think it's very rational to assume that some kind of harmony between SCP engine default values and MediaVP assets should exist.

That's it really. This has gone into ridiculous lenghts by now, when originally all I asked was to reconsider maintaining this previously established harmony. Because I fail to see the advantages of not maintaining it.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 18, 2013, 12:51:26 pm
All I'm trying to tell you is that there is nothing to adjust. FSU can't just flip a switch and have bloom react as it used to. We have better nebulas, we no longer carry our own shaders, our post processing table is a little different now, etc.

You are asking us to go on a witch hunt to change something that anyone who dislikes can change by typing a number in the launcher because you think we can just 'revert back'. It doesn't work like that. You are missing a fundamental understanding the whole system.

As for this 'harmony' you are speaking of. It's not like FSU and SCP have meetings about how best to upgrade FS for each release cycle. SCP pretty well does their own thing irregardless of FSU unless we ask for any specific feature. We then just take the released execs and use the features builtin to upgrade the canon FS ships, missions, and effects. That's all there is to it.

If you are so worried about the average user who can't change the commandline (a user group, that I suspect is closer to myth than reality anyway), go to SCP with Axem's support and ask them to alter the default value in the exec. But please stop implying that the MediaVPs are refusing to 'fix it', because there's nothing to fix in the modpack that will directly result in a revert to previous bloom values doing exactly what they did in 3612.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: bcKq on December 18, 2013, 02:00:40 pm
Ok setting -bloom_intensity to 20 did the job.
At 75 the nebulas are just... too strong
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: niffiwan on December 18, 2013, 03:43:19 pm
Altering the default bloom setting in the code is trivial:

Code: [Select]
diff --git a/code/cmdline/cmdline.cpp b/code/cmdline/cmdline.cpp
index b6a9cdb..9effec8 100644
--- a/code/cmdline/cmdline.cpp
+++ b/code/cmdline/cmdline.cpp
@@ -294,7 +294,7 @@ int Cmdline_height = 1;
 int Cmdline_enable_3d_shockwave = 0;
 int Cmdline_softparticles = 0;
 int Cmdline_postprocess = 0;
-int Cmdline_bloom_intensity = 75;
+int Cmdline_bloom_intensity = 20;
 bool Cmdline_fxaa = false;
 int Cmdline_fxaa_preset = 6;
 extern int Fxaa_preset_last_frame;

Adding it as a table-able option will not be as trivial as this but it'll probably be fairly easy.  If you want to pursue it, open that thread on the SCP board :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Mongoose on December 18, 2013, 06:18:04 pm
For the sake of heading off further fighting heated discussions, may I suggest that any further bloom value debate be taken over to Axem's thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86359.0) in the SCP folder.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Macfie on December 19, 2013, 09:06:24 am
You might want to include in the notes on the title page that this requires the latest nightly and will not work with the 3.7.0 release build.  Since this generates errors on that build due to the countermeasures.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: headdie on December 19, 2013, 10:47:57 am
This does bring up one question for me.

Is there going to be a new stable build released for FSO?

I ask because as a guideline mods are "supposed" to be developed for the current stable build, and yet we have perhaps the most important mod in the community preparing to release using features/changes created after this point.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 20, 2013, 02:36:33 pm
Apparently I'm an ass because someone messed with our post_processing.tbl randomly during the last two years and our dysfunctional team opted to let me argue and debate rather than just poke me and let me know about it. I was unaware until I saw it posted in the bloooooooooom (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86359.msg1725390#msg1725390) thread.

I set the values to normal levels which is not a direct fix to your over sensitivity to bloom effects, but it definitely was not helping.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Hellzed on December 21, 2013, 02:52:35 am
I've just added Media VPs 2014 support to my mod installer for Linux.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86364.msg1725121#msg1725121
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Fury on December 21, 2013, 03:37:20 am
Apparently I'm an ass because someone messed with our post_processing.tbl randomly during the last two years and our dysfunctional team opted to let me argue and debate rather than just poke me and let me know about it.
Except your attitude is not any different regardless of whether you are let to know about something.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Hellzed on December 21, 2013, 04:10:34 am
I'm not sure if the coop missions are supposed to be a part of mediavps...
There are fixes for the coop campaign here : http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=82967.0
Are these included ?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Rheyah on December 21, 2013, 04:25:38 am
I'm running the 2014 mediaVPs with my mod at present.  Haven't come across any bugs so far.  Nice work guys :)  The Arcadia especially is stunning.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 21, 2013, 07:54:03 am
Apparently I'm an ass because someone messed with our post_processing.tbl randomly during the last two years and our dysfunctional team opted to let me argue and debate rather than just poke me and let me know about it.
Except your attitude is not any different regardless of whether you are let to know about something.

Thanks, mom.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Hellzed on December 22, 2013, 08:26:14 pm
Just a little question : why is there a thick ugly green line at the edges of every loading screen ? It has been present since at least Media VPs 3612... I thought it was abug but it's still there...
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 22, 2013, 08:38:08 pm
Pics plz. Just because a bug persists does not mean it's not a bug. Simply means that it hasn't been reported.. and, more likely, that not everyone has it.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Hellzed on December 23, 2013, 02:41:04 am
Same loading screen. The "green" one is with mediavps_2014_beta, the darker one is with retail version...

It's a matter of taste, maybe, but the retail one looks better to me. Ok, Media VPs textures look cleaner, with less compression artefacts, but it also has this green frame and color issues between the progress bar and its background.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: niffiwan on December 23, 2013, 03:04:14 am
The green themed background is intentional :)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 23, 2013, 08:26:54 am
The only issue I see in the screens there is the mismatched colors box around the loading dots. I generally know what's causing it. FSO is simply layering the loading dots ANI on top of the background. So I checked the colors of the dots vs the actual background image in Photoshop and they seem to match perfectly. Likely there is something slightly different with the way FSO is displaying DDS images, ANI images, or both... and frankly, I really don't care enough about it to spend time sorting it all out for such a trivial issue.

Maybe one of the other guys on the team will look into it.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: General Battuta on December 23, 2013, 09:42:22 am
Just as general aesthetic feedback, I do prefer the retail no-green background - I think it fits the stark, clean aesthetic a little better. But no worries about it, just a datum to register if it's useful.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on December 23, 2013, 01:17:31 pm
I don't know if it's been mentionned yet, but in the first Vasudan mission, it is possible to give attack orders to both the JUnit and Tatenen, potentially moving the latter out of the Sathanas' firing arcs.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: CapellaGoBoom on December 23, 2013, 07:16:10 pm
this latest mediaVPs is astonishing! i actually tested BP 1st and it works quite well with it! i was able to get through AOA and came across no major issues. my 2 fav ships which were completely redone have to be the sobek and sathanas (looking in the tech room)! they look incredible! cant wait to see what else u guys have in store during this beta! 2 thumbs WAY UP so far!  :cool:
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: QuantumDelta on December 24, 2013, 05:05:14 pm
I don't know if it's been mentionned yet, but in the first Vasudan mission, it is possible to give attack orders to both the JUnit and Tatenen, potentially moving the latter out of the Sathanas' firing arcs.
Always been possible.. :P
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on December 25, 2013, 02:12:36 pm
So, it wasn't considered worth fixing then?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: headdie on December 25, 2013, 07:11:51 pm
Not FSU's job, they make things pretty while trying to preserve Retail behaviour, like with FSPort bug fixing the original campaign is some other person's job.

you want bug fixing then that needs to be its own project as is being theoretically discussed http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86411.0
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 25, 2013, 07:23:24 pm
Well, not entirely. We do fix some mission bugs. Bugs that are clearly bugs, we fix right up. This one could be argued either way and I have not looked at the mission to decide if it will be fixed or not.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: scotch321 on December 26, 2013, 12:12:40 pm
I tried installing the new mediaVPs today, even updated to a new nightly build (Dec 20th), and was unable to get the new mediaVPs to load. I tried two different launchers and a couple of other nightly builds to see if I could fix the problem. I thought there might be an issue with a BP build from a portion of the error, but I made sure that I had selected the mediaVP2014 mod in the launcher. Some suggestions or help on how to proceed would be appreciated! The output looks similar to an error encountered on the first page of this thread but the suggested solution of another nightly build didn't work. Here's the output code I got:

bp2-shp.tbm(line 423):
Error: Required token = [#End], [$Subsystem:], [$Name], or [$Template], found [$Glowpoint overrides: ( "blue_glow4_small_30:1" "red_glow_20:2"].

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 67 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_7_1_SSE-20131217_r10241.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1_SSE-20131217_r10241.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1_SSE-20131217_r10241.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_7_1_SSE-20131217_r10241.exe! <no symbol>
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: The E on December 26, 2013, 12:15:10 pm
This is not an issue with the MediaVPs, but with the fact that BP is not compatible with standard builds out of the box. You need one of these builds (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83318.0) to play the game
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: General Battuta on December 26, 2013, 12:17:33 pm
It's a little funny that your game is trying to load BP2 tables at all if you only have mediavps_2014 selected as a mod.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: scotch321 on December 26, 2013, 02:34:27 pm
I downloaded The E's suggestion for the BP builds and am running at 3.7.1. Only when I run it with blueplanet2 as the mod do I get the game to start and have the option of playing the original freespace 2 campaigns along with the blue planet mods. So I changed the mod.ini file within the blueplanet2 mod directory to point to mediavps_2014_beta as the secondarylist. Will that pull in the new mediaVPs when playing the original freespace 2 missions?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: blowfish on December 26, 2013, 04:31:41 pm
It's best if you don't do that as Blue Planet hasn't been tested with the new mediavps.  If you want to play Blue Planet, select Blue Planet as a mod.  If you want to play Freespace 2, select the mediavps.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: General Battuta on December 26, 2013, 04:57:26 pm
Definitely true. Test the MVPs on their own, then test them with BP to see if there are any incompatibilities.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: freebosch on December 27, 2013, 05:55:08 am
I'm having a problem with one of the missions being unfinishable. I'm running fs2_open_3_7_1_SSE-20131127_r10174.exe with the latest mediavps, and Feint! Parry! Riposte! (the one with Colossus vs NTD Repulse) has a couple of issues.
Sometimes, I won't get the command to go back to base. Ending the mission after the objectives are complete gives the victory briefing text, but classes it as mission failed. I've noticed this happening when one of the cruisers dies too quickly for it to be made invulnerable until after the arrival of the Repulse.
Or, if I do get the command, I get a crash to desktop.

Is this a problem with my configuration?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: scotch321 on December 27, 2013, 01:33:21 pm
Running a standalone version of freespace 2 with just the new mediaVPs and was able to get everything to start just fine. Everything looks great with the new graphics, but the only problem I'm running into now is that I can't jump out at the end of a mission - or any time during a mission for that matter. I've checked the assigned keys for warpout and even swapped them just to make sure. No matter what keys I select for warp out, it brings up the communication window and I never can finish the mission.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: General Battuta on December 27, 2013, 01:44:06 pm
What happens if you create a new pilot? Also post a debug log!
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: scotch321 on December 27, 2013, 02:04:36 pm
Well I feel kinda dumb now. I created a new pilot file, and swapped out the warpout command to Alt-2. That worked just fine!  Alt-J/Shift-J or any combination of that wouldn't work. I ran it in debug mode, but I'm not sure where to get any output to post. Maybe it was a problem with the pilot file?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: General Battuta on December 27, 2013, 02:19:37 pm
The debug log is located in [your FreeSpace directory]/data/fs2_open.log. Pastebin or post it in code tags.

Does alt-J work under the new pilot file?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: scotch321 on December 27, 2013, 02:41:33 pm
Alt-J didn't work under the new pilot code, but when I switched it to Alt-2 it worked as expected, and the objectives menu switched to recognize that as the warpout command. Log file is too large to post in code tags, so I attached it.

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 27, 2013, 03:17:22 pm
It seems quite likely that your issue is not MediaVPs related because a new pilot and/or keybind fixed the issue. That tells me that the mission logic is fine and something else is wrong with your install.

Quite separately, I do want to say that it's not ideal, but the MediaVPs_2014 Final will almost definitely require a nightly build. Under different circumstances, the FSU team would probably have waited for another SCP Release Candidate, at least, to post a Beta. But that's not how things went down. So instead of removing things that have already been tested, we'll release as is and hope a new SCP final comes soon.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 27, 2013, 07:10:48 pm
If $Countermeasure Type is the only thing that requires a nightly build, and the rest will work on 3.7.0, then you could use version-specific commenting on those lines.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Hellzed on December 29, 2013, 01:25:28 am
Just checked the coop missions bug.
http://www.hard-light.net/mantis/view.php?id=859
To me, with nightly builds and mediavps 2014 beta 2, this is not fixed.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 30, 2013, 11:18:02 am
Hi,

I understand that MediaVP_2014 is going to get its 1.0 release early next year, so here is sort of a final FS2 campaign related "bug/oddity" collection from me. I won't guarantee that it contains everything, but at least here are some bugs/oddities that MIGHT need to be fixed one way or another. Note that some of these have been present all the way since FS2 retail, but some of these are clearly FSO related. I also included a couple of larger design-related issues, that could also be discussed here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86411.msg1726740#msg1726740) (since I know that FSU is avoiding major overhauls).

I used the build 10222 with these missions.

Earlier mentions (not sure if fixed yet)

- Iceni is unable to destroy the enemy Sobek in time in the first SOC mission (Rebels & Renegades).

- Dialog desynchronization in "Feint, Parry, Riposte", where NTD Repulse starts its acceleration towards Colossus way before the dialogue notifies of this. Here is the proof video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_fffeQWhl4)

Additional oddities

- The mission "A Flaming Sword"  is too easy to break. If you follow the original waypoints for Alpha, you engage the Astaroths, but this either ends in all Astaroths getting destroyed without being lured to the friendly Sobek OR you escaping alone to Sobek and getting all your wingmates killed. Only the latter gets the secondary objective completed.

The main problem presents itself if you try to be smart. You can try this yourself:

1. Pick a Horus for yourself
2. Order all your squadmates to guard Sobek as soon as the mission starts.
3. Proceed by yourself to harass the Astaroths, but disengage as soon as they start to follow you.
4. Fly back to Sobek and be amazed how ALL friendly ships have now become pacifists, including the Sobek. The secondary objective isn't marked as completed either. Either you have destroy the Astaroths by yourself, or they will massacre your squadmates while Sobek is just standing idly by.

- SOC 3 (But hate the traitors) bad ending lets you continue the campaign. If you decide to massacre the civilian transport, the debriefing is very judgemental and harsh even to the point that it seems your tour of duty ends there. But I was actually amazed that I was able to continue the campaign like nothing had happened. Disclaimer: I don't remember how this was in the retail, but it seems to me that the intention was a clear "mission failed", even though I personally think that one is forced to do unethical things to remain in cover.

- In the mission "Endgame" the Colossus bounces up and down a few times as soon as it exits the subspace. It's nothing serious really, but just unintentionally hilarious.

- Every time Sathanas destroys something on difficulty level Medium and upwards (meaning that the beam refire time is practically zero) the dialog on capital ships is abruptly terminated. Now, some people might appreciate this as a catalyst for grim mood, but storytelling-wise it's a bit odd that huge chunks of texts are simply ignored and the player somehow knows what dying commanders were going to say before they died. This includes the Phoenicia, Psamtik and the Colossus. A crude fix would be to make these ships invulnerable at 1% until they have finished their dialog lines.

These might be SCP engine related, but I'm not sure (might as well include them here)

- In the mission "Dunkerque" the whole Arcadia station is vibrating a little bit everytime it is docked with one of the evacuation transports.

- (Warning! Lots of speculation) In the mission "Game of TAG" the super AA -beams are a bit less accurate than I remember. I remember that previously they only rarely missed their shots, but it seems that they miss far more often now. However this might be my imagination, so don't get mad if I remember it wrong  :D

Well that's it folks! I hope I have been even somewhat helpful on these forums, even though I have a bit bad tendency to blame wrong things (or more specifically, blame the right things for wrong reasons :P).
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 30, 2013, 12:19:37 pm
- The mission "A Flaming Sword"  is too easy to break. If you follow the original waypoints for Alpha, you engage the Astaroths, but this either ends in all Astaroths getting destroyed without being lured to the friendly Sobek OR you escaping alone to Sobek and getting all your wingmates killed. Only the latter gets the secondary objective completed.
As mentioned earlier, changes have been made in SVN that should make this more robust.

Quote
- SOC 3 (But hate the traitors) bad ending lets you continue the campaign. If you decide to massacre the civilian transport, the debriefing is very judgemental and harsh even to the point that it seems your tour of duty ends there. But I was actually amazed that I was able to continue the campaign like nothing had happened. Disclaimer: I don't remember how this was in the retail, but it seems to me that the intention was a clear "mission failed", even though I personally think that one is forced to do unethical things to remain in cover.
This was true in retail as well.  It might be considered a bug; report it on the HLP Mantis (as you should do with all your other bugs) and see what the MVP people say.

Quote
- Every time Sathanas destroys something on difficulty level Medium and upwards (meaning that the beam refire time is practically zero) the dialog on capital ships is abruptly terminated. Now, some people might appreciate this as a catalyst for grim mood, but storytelling-wise it's a bit odd that huge chunks of texts are simply ignored and the player somehow knows what dying commanders were going to say before they died. This includes the Phoenicia, Psamtik and the Colossus. A crude fix would be to make these ships invulnerable at 1% until they have finished their dialog lines.
Voice for any ship sending a message is cut off as soon as it's destroyed.  Not just destroyers and not just on certain difficulties.  This has been true ever since FS1 and is not something you can easily fix.  Do you expect the game to retroactively chop the remaining words off the message on the HUD if there's no voice playing for them?  If so, how do you propose to match the voice file with the words?
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Lykurgos88 on December 30, 2013, 12:24:32 pm
Voice for any ship sending a message is cut off as soon as it's destroyed.  Not just destroyers and not just on certain difficulties.  This has been true ever since FS1 and is not something you can easily fix.  Do you expect the game to retroactively chop the remaining words off the message on the HUD if there's no voice playing for them?  If so, how do you propose to match the voice file with the words?

Uh, I think you misunderstood me. I know perfectly well, that voice messages cut off for destroyed starships, but Sathanas is so effective in Medium difficulty and above, that there is a certain missynchronization between dialog and action. And that is why suggested that Colossus, Psamtik and Phoenicia would be invulnerable at 1 % hitpoints UNTIL they get the chance to say whatever they have to say.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Goober5000 on December 30, 2013, 12:28:47 pm
Uh, I think you misunderstood me. I know perfectly well, that voice messages cut off for destroyed starships, but Sathanas is so effective in Medium difficulty and above, that there is a certain missynchronization between dialog and action.

Well, that's not what you wrote above.

As I recall, Volition recommended that the campaign be played on Easy difficulty, so maybe that's where they got their timing from.  A better solution would be to delay beam-free'ing the Sathanas one or two seconds until the messages trigger.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: General Battuta on December 30, 2013, 12:39:38 pm
I don't think that's a particularly good solution either. Just do the easy thing - change the message source to #Phoenicia so the game doesn't care when the Phoenicia's killed. (I recall this should work, if not, there are a bunch of other workarounds in the same class.)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: SypheDMar on December 30, 2013, 05:02:36 pm
Quote
- SOC 3 (But hate the traitors) bad ending lets you continue the campaign. If you decide to massacre the civilian transport, the debriefing is very judgemental and harsh even to the point that it seems your tour of duty ends there. But I was actually amazed that I was able to continue the campaign like nothing had happened. Disclaimer: I don't remember how this was in the retail, but it seems to me that the intention was a clear "mission failed", even though I personally think that one is forced to do unethical things to remain in cover.
This was true in retail as well.  It might be considered a bug; report it on the HLP Mantis (as you should do with all your other bugs) and see what the MVP people say.
I believe this is intentional. In Rebels and Renegade, GTVA gives you authorization to "fire in self-defense or to complete your mission objectives." In ...But Hate the Traitor, there was no way of truly knowing that Niven figured us out unless we played it before. If I destroyed the civilian transport, I did it to complete my mission. Since I'm working as an SOC operative, I believe Command, despite the shock and dismay, did not indict Alpha 1 because Alpha 1 made the right call at the time.

Edit: In short, [V] is not as nearly as punishing as the ST:R team. :p
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: Echelon9 on December 30, 2013, 05:28:43 pm
This does bring up one question for me.

Is there going to be a new stable build released for FSO?

I ask because as a guideline mods are "supposed" to be developed for the current stable build, and yet we have perhaps the most important mod in the community preparing to release using features/changes created after this point.

We've yet to fully discuss this in the SCP, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 3.7.1 build out in the near future. A couple of recent code bugs have been found and fixed that improve stability even further.

We'll discuss this with the MediaVPs team to try to line these up timing wise.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on December 30, 2013, 07:39:04 pm
We've yet to fully discuss this in the SCP, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 3.7.1 build out in the near future.
You mean 3.7.2? We've got lots of 3.7.1 builds (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=173.0) out. ;)
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: FSW on January 01, 2014, 07:26:37 am
In MatthTheGeek's screenshot of the Colossus (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86198.msg1723905#msg1723905), the turrets on the underside of the head appear to be floating just off the hull itself.

Is this a flaw with the model, or am I looking at debris? Unfortunately, I am currently unable to check the new MediaVPs in-game myself.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: DahBlount on January 01, 2014, 09:28:44 am
In MatthTheGeek's screenshot of the Colossus (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=86198.msg1723905#msg1723905), the turrets on the underside of the head appear to be floating just off the hull itself.

Is this a flaw with the model, or am I looking at debris? Unfortunately, I am currently unable to check the new MediaVPs in-game myself.

Checked it out in game and it appears to be part of the detail box as there are mounts that appear when you get within a certain distance of the Colossus.
Title: Re: The MediaVPs 2014 Open Beta [BETA 2 - 12/7/13]
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 01, 2014, 11:41:04 pm
Thank you for playing. The Beta is now closed and the downloads will be removed. :)