[Mobius]

According to Scuddie, Ground Zero is still...a problem. I read a few articles about possible commemoration buildings, though I think we'll have to wait.

[Jeff Vader]

ANd, Why would I create pro-american threads if I am dutch?

I didn't state that this was a pro-American thread. At least it wasn't my intention. I was just saying that particularly the WTC strike is more  a concern for Americans than for the rest of the world. In a similar manner it would have been a tragedy for the French if they had crashed into the Eiffel tower. Or to the Finns if a plane had crashed into Näsinneula.

I wasn't aware that you're Dutch (I rarely check profiles), but obviously you're more interested in the US than me.

[colecampbell666]

What? Expecting intellectual comments? Oh no. This is going to be another VTech thread.

Linky?

[Jake2447]

Does it matter which nationality you are in terms of being able to discuss this?  If you want to discuss this from a country other than the U.S., go ahead.  On the other hand, don't pretend that the U.S. should have more interest in this than other countries.  People thinking too much about other countries is the reason the U.S. currently finds itself in Iraq.  *Getting off topic* Also, people who act like the Iraq war is all Bush's fault are idiots.  A USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of Americans felt the U.S. did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003.  Also, don't give that "no WMD" bull****.  A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and the newspaper USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons.  Even politicians supported the war.  In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.  In other words, blame yourselves for the war, not the people that represent you.

[colecampbell666]

Does it matter which nationality you are in terms of being able to discuss this?  If you want to discuss this from a country other than the U.S., go ahead.  On the other hand, don't pretend that the U.S. should have more interest in this than other countries.  People thinking too much about other countries is the reason the U.S. currently finds itself in Iraq.  *Getting off topic* Also, people who act like the Iraq war is all Bush's fault are idiots.  A USA Today/Gallup Poll indicated that 75% of Americans felt the U.S. did not make a mistake in sending troops to Iraq in March 2003.  Also, don't give that "no WMD" bull****.  A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and the newspaper USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons.  Even politicians supported the war.  In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.  In other words, blame yourselves for the war, not the people that represent you.

Is this a typo?
I think that the US is too forceful in solving problems. Canada, on the other hand, is the world leader in peacekeeping. Sept 11th is a national event, not a world event. Like Mustang said, most people probably don't know the details of the Madrid bombings. The only reason that 9/11 is known is because of Fox and the massive size of the US.

[Flipside]

First, I wish people would remember that it was Afghanistan that was invaded post 9/11, the Iraq War was completely removed from the event.

Secondly, it was a terrible day, both for the families of the victims and for the US in general, I don't have a problem with those who wish to discussing the issue, but flame-wars will swiftly lead to action, regardless of what direction they are going in.....

[karajorma]

Yeah but Flipside it's hard to separate Iraq and 9/11 when the American government put so much energy into entwining them.

In other words, blame yourselves for the war, not the people that represent you.

True but can you really blame them when the media pretty much refused to actually do their job and inform the electorate?

Can a country in which 1 in 3 people think that Iraq had a connection to 9/11 really make an informed decision?

[Mobius]

I think that the US is too forceful in solving problems. Canada, on the other hand, is the world leader in peacekeeping. Sept 11th is a national event, not a world event. Like Mustang said, most people probably don't know the details of the Madrid bombings. The only reason that 9/11 is known is because of Fox and the massive size of the US.

Depends. Just remember what filo-nazists said about 9/11. Read articles about a "devil shaped smoke" coming from the towers...and conspiracy theories.

There always is something interesting to say, something that attracts the attention. Furthermore, remember that the attack on the WTC was intended as an attack against Christians. It's enough to make 9/11 a world event.

First, I wish people would remember that it was Afghanistan that was invaded post 9/11, the Iraq War was completely removed from the event.

Secondly, it was a terrible day, both for the families of the victims and for the US in general, I don't have a problem with those who wish to discussing the issue, but flame-wars will swiftly lead to action, regardless of what direction they are going in.....

 

[karajorma]

*Cracks knuckles menacingly*

I'll agree with Flipside on the point about flaming. Anyone I see doing it is spending a week with a monkey avatar.

[Mobius]

Why would this thread end with a Flame War?

[Ghostavo]

There always is something interesting to say, something that attracts the attention. Furthermore, remember that the attack on the WTC was intended as an attack against Christians. It's enough to make 9/11 a world event.

No it wasn't. It was an attack against americans.

[colecampbell666]

Wow...Hot topic!

[Scuddie]

You call that hot?  I've seen threads about anal leakage that had more viewers than that.

[Polpolion]

Why would this thread end with a Flame War?

Remember the Vtech thread? Remember the space shuttle columbia threads? Remember the last few WTC threads? Thats why. While American bashing technically isn't Racism, it is just as bad.

And thanks, Kara and Flipside (and any other admods) for keeping an eye on the thread .

[DiabloRojo]

colecampbell666: looks kinda Patriotic too.. er, well, the colors are in the order of the French flag though.

I don't know about memorials, but like many other people who have lived through some major world-turning event, I still remember well the day of the 'bombings.'  I don't know that you can technically call them bombings, but I digress.  I've heard similar stories from people that remember the Kennedy Assassination, or when the Apollo 11 LEM touched down on the moon.  Or when the Berlin Wall fell.

Still, I remember being at my desk and hearing someone say that they just heard on the radio that a plane hit the WTC.  Cynic that I am, I figured it was some idiot in a Cessna trying to pull off some tower-buzzing like I used to do in MS Flight Simulator and went on with work.  30 minutes later, after a couple of (work related) phone calls, I found out the first one was a 747 (not knowing about the 2nd hit yet).  I thought, 'a friggin 747?  No way in hell is a 747 going to hit a WTC tower, even assuming some major mechanical problems.  It'd be kinda hard to NOT point a plane away from that.'

My office is very near our (international) airport, so we hear planes constantly and have some busy roads.  I remember how eerie it was, when heading out for a smoke break and discussing the issue with co-workers, noticing not a sound.  Nothing.  No one was driving on the normally busy street, no planes flying overhead.  Nothing.  That was unnerving.

[IceFire]

Somewhat similar for me Diablo.  I was working that summer as a soccer referee and allot of the soccer fields are fairly close to the flight lines for the international airport around here. We're not in the immediate vicinity of the airport but just on the lines...it was quiet for the three (or four?) days that they shut down air travel.  It WAS unnerving for sure...something that was so common place.

That was quite a day...everyone was just shocked and the news reports kept streaming in.  I remember CNN, CBC, BBC, and all of the other major news sites were basically inaccessible too.  Lots of strange things happened those couple of days..first time I had ever spotted a pair of CF-18s flying past and looking quite well armed over Canadian airspace.  Hard to be sure but they didn't look stripped down like they normally do.

[Jake2447]

Sorry for bringing Iraq war into the discussion.  I realize they are not officially connected, but the criticism between the two events does have some connection.  Also, like Karajorma pointed out, the United States tries to connect them.

Back on topic, why do people not like to talk about 911.  By having a fear f merely the mention of the event we are giving terrorists credibility.  Also, don't act like the U.S. in innocent and was attacked for no important reason.  While the magnitude of the attack was unjustified, the U.S. has been meddling in the affairs of the Middle East for more than 50 years.

[Mefustae]

Also, don't act like the U.S. in innocent and was attacked for no important reason.  While the magnitude of the attack was unjustified, the U.S. has been meddling in the affairs of the Middle East for more than 50 years.

That's one of the major thing that irks me about 9/11. So many people try to make it out as an 'unprovoked and wholly undeserved attack', when history states otherwise. While the people in the towers were more or less innocent, the United States as a whole is about as innocent as an 48-year old porn star.

Another thing that irks me is how many people will think (and react) as if i'm trying to say those 3000+ people 'deserved it'.

[DiabloRojo]

Maybe not the 3000 people in particular, but you did just imply that the US deserved the attack itself because 'history states' it.

Ok, I just killed about a page of text... You're all right, this thread isn't going to go anywhere but bad.

[Kosh]

the Iraq War was completely removed from the event.

9/11 was used (and to some degree still is) as justification for Iraq and the continuence of the occupation. The US government took great lengths in early 2003 to connect 9/11 to Iraq, and a lot of people in America believed it.


9/11 was a tragedy, but what was also more of a tradgedy was how it was ruthlessly exploited to pass legislatation (PATRIOT Act) that several political leaders in the Republican party had planned to do as well as use it as justification to persue militaristic policies.