Author Topic: Delenda Est (spoiler!)  (Read 40197 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I noticed reading through the mission file that the Altan Orde gets Heavy Armor 80 as soon as it arrives, but the Katana is not given an armor class until the Deianira and Iolanthe are destroyed or withdraw (at which point both the Katana and Altan Orde are both given Heavy Armor 100). Was this always the case?

In early versions of the mission (including the release) both ships got Heavy Armor 150 when the beam overload kicked in, possibly earlier :nervous:

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I just ran into a person IRL who has played Blue Planet and he complained a lot about really weird bugs in Delenda Est. Sounds like we really need to check this out.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I just ran into a person IRL who has played Blue Planet and he complained a lot about really weird bugs in Delenda Est. Sounds like we really need to check this out.

That seems statistically insane, but very cool, and yet very unfortunate.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I remember playing through this mission a couple weeks ago and thinking something was weird with Katana. It always kept dying on me even after disarming the corvettes and everything else I could find. I'm playing through the mission right now and will edit this when I get some more observations at that point. Playing on Normal Difficulty, flying the Uriel with default primaries, 1 bank of darts and 2 banks of Slammers. I'll try to watch targets and timestamps since I don't have any fancy recording software or monitoring tools.

Pireciter


Edit: 1st playthrough, reached the 1st checkpoint ~6 minutes in. I did not start disarming the corvettes until the Katana and Altan Orde jumped in. Main beams disarmed on Iolanthe and Deianira with ~30% left on Katana(35 seconds left on overload). Sat and watched until Katana died(which happened). I didn't see any friendly fire hitting it, just a lot of AA beams and a couple slashes. Did seem like everything was preferring Katana over Altan Orde in target choice. Orde still had ~90% hull. Running through again now.

Edit2: 2nd playthrough, similar results(main beams disarmed at about 60/80% Katana/Altan Orde)....did notice the Grissom was going pewpew with about a million missiles one right after the other all targeting Katana. Fire rate was about one per second. By design? No friendly fire it appeared visually. Playing again...

Edit3: 3rd playthrough, watched the Grissom a little closer this time. Destroyed the main beams on the corvettes and did nothing but watch it. It sent out a stream of missiles about one a second and by the time the beams were gone, there was a line of them "connecting" Katana and Grissom. Katana seemed unwilling/unable to target and destroy them and I did not attempt because by the time I thought of trying...Katana died and I had to restart.  Are they by design where you are supposed to intercept them?


I need to head out for a bit, but will play again when I return and confirm what I saw. Also will try to destroy them this time around.

So the Katana got killed by a frickin' Fusion Mortar?

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
The fusion mortar actually does more damage over time than the sgreen.

This is much more a reflection on the sgreen than it is on the fusion mortar.

 

Offline Qent

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Actually it does about the same as an SRed, because it's an explosive. :D

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)

So the Katana got killed by a frickin' Fusion Mortar?


Meh, without knowing and/or having access to damage logs I couldn't say, it was just what I saw. Only saw a scattering of AA beams hitting Katana, though I suspect there was some pulse weapons or something I didn't see. Seemed like there was constant damage coming in. Didn't seem like a constant rate, but that escort icon was continuously flashing. Maybe I'll buy Fraps or something so I can record what I am seeing to review it more. It sucks playing 10 minutes of a mission again and again just to watch for 30 seconds.

Another question on the 2nd wave warp-in: How are Katana/Altan Orde's arrival points calculated? Forgive my ignorance of game mechanics and how warp in/outs are setup, but it seems like their arrival point changes from mission to mission. Sometimes they seem farther away and close the distance, other times they are right on top of the Carthage. Probably just imagining things...


Pi

Chaos, Panic, and Disorder...
My work here is done.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)

So the Katana got killed by a frickin' Fusion Mortar?


Meh, without knowing and/or having access to damage logs I couldn't say, it was just what I saw. Only saw a scattering of AA beams hitting Katana, though I suspect there was some pulse weapons or something I didn't see. Seemed like there was constant damage coming in. Didn't seem like a constant rate, but that escort icon was continuously flashing. Maybe I'll buy Fraps or something so I can record what I am seeing to review it more. It sucks playing 10 minutes of a mission again and again just to watch for 30 seconds.

Can't you just load from the checkpoint?

Quote
Another question on the 2nd wave warp-in: How are Katana/Altan Orde's arrival points calculated? Forgive my ignorance of game mechanics and how warp in/outs are setup, but it seems like their arrival point changes from mission to mission. Sometimes they seem farther away and close the distance, other times they are right on top of the Carthage. Probably just imagining things...


Pi

This is usually caused by loading checkpoints too fast after mission start.

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)

Can't you just load from the checkpoint?


I've been running the mission from the Tech Room using the Mission Simulator. It's not letting me load checkpoints from there when I play the single mission. Never gives me the option when I try to replay mission at the "Katana died, you suck" debriefing. Is there a way to get the checkpoints to load from there?


Pi
Chaos, Panic, and Disorder...
My work here is done.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Oh, bleh, you're right, it's impossible to use checkpoints from the tech room. There were special dev commands buried in the mission to enable the checkpoints, but I think they're probably disabled in the release version.

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Lame.

Oh well, least I will get lots of dogfighting practice.


Pi
Chaos, Panic, and Disorder...
My work here is done.

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
At 80s to overload? With 80% hull? This seems improbable. Are you sure this data as right? Does Katana's HP go down from 80% at a fast, constant rate? That would mean it's self-destructing, and that would in turn mean a SEXP bug. I don't see any better explanation, this is plain weird. Also, try pressing "G" key while targeting the Katana, which will show you the closest ship attacking it.

Hi, after few more trials, I think Katana has 80% hull at 80s to overload is totally possible.

I looked about the amount of damage dealt on Katana.
As pireciter said, beams are all favor Katana over Altan Orde.

There are (exclude Deianira and Iolanthe):
2 Aeolus : 4SGreen (2888 per pulse, 45s recharge)
Carthage : 2 TerSlash (3850 per pulse, 10s recarge)
 
These beams could deal nearly 20k dmg right after the presence of Katana.  Not even to mention TerSlash has only 10s recharge time and I already excluded two major threats.

As the result, it's not improbable, it seems to me this is very likely to happen.



 

Offline SF-Junky

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
This is funny. I just played Delenda Est yesterday and could finish it without any problems. I even was once again impressed how perfectly balanced this mission is. ^^
Has there been any changes to DE since the original release?

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Just to let y'all know, I'm pretty sure that using Checkpoints gives you a completely different situation than not using them.

Without checkpoints, Altan Orde/ Katana warp in about 5~7 clicks out from the Carthage (Can't remember exactly what it is off the top of my head), the fighters swarm and get slaughtered by the four Karuna flak pocket (Makes me feel sorry for the Tevs... >.>) and then the Karunas start hitting the cruiser screen.

With Checkpoint 1, I found that the ALtan Orde/ Katana warped in at around 3 clicks, (with the Indus and Yang-tze right behind), making it so that the fighter screen and the crusiers hit at the same time. (And incidentally making it a LOT harder to take out those beams >.>)

You might want to take that into account while playtesting... =p

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I think that has to do with how rapidly you load the checkpoint after mission start. Are you sure you've updated your BP to the latest version? (This is just a check - the issue probably still can't be totally fixed.)

Could you wait until the Indus has slowed down completely from its initial warpin before loading the checkpoint, and see if that makes a difference?

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
That would be it, probably... when I restart the mission, I always hit the checkpoint as soon as possible. I am running the latest version of BP. I will check to see if the mission works properly if I wait, eventually...

Oh, and as might also be important, I get an error message (A pop-up outside of the freespace window) every single time I launch the mission. I'll post that when I get around to playing through WiH again. =p

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Just a heads up, I'm having a similar problem now with DE. On easy and hard either the Katan or Altan Orde seem to always be taking hits. I've disarmed all corvette beams before they jump in and some of the cruiser beams too and I sat and watched them. I couldn't see them take any actual hits aside from the infrequent anti-fighter beam and some lasers here and there. On my most recent playthrough I got both of them through alive (on Hard) then immediately after the cutscene where the Imperiuse arrives this happens:



Just to reiterate; both frigates were alive (albeit at 8-9% hull) before the Imperiuse arrived and both of them were firing at the Carthage as far as I could tell.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Oh brother.

We need to figure out whether this is a FRED bug or an AI bug in line with recent reports. This is a big deal.

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I'm sorry we're killing your baby, we really don't mean to. :(

Also, forgot to mention no checkpoints were used. I'll try again from a checkpoint and see what happens.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
It's not your fault at all - in fact I'm super grateful for the input and the help. This part of the mission has always been really finicky, and it seems to be kind of a mineshaft parakeet for bugs in new SCP builds.