Author Topic: Why keep this separate?  (Read 6091 times)

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Why keep this separate?
After a considerable amount of time and effort, I think I've figured out what "Media VPs" does. You guys are updating the models for the game, right? I put it this way because it's really hard to decipher right now. To a layman...heck, to anyone except you guys, "Media VPs" doesn't mean anything. After loading it up and checking out some of the new models, I'm really sad, because the new models look great, and I wish I had played through the game with them.

Having recently re-installed Freespace 2 after a long absence, I came back, and played through FSPort. After finishing, I decided to flip through the mods, since the game is giving me a little warning when trying to launch Silent Threat saying to play the Reborn version instead. My curiousity upon seeing "Mediavps" is the only reason I even realized this exists. In fact, I still don't know if I'm supposed to use it...do I load up fsport-str, or do I play Silent Threat through the Media VP's? I think you're losing a lot of your audience, not only by keeping it separate, but by having a confusing name.

I'm assuming this is a different team from the FSPort team, but why not combine them?

 

Offline The E

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Because these are two different projects, with different goals. The FSPort's goal is to make FS1 accessible to those who only own FS2, the MediaVPs goal is to make the game look and sound better using modern models and effects. Merging the two projects is not something we're keen on doing, since it would run counter to some of the goals the FSPort team has set for itself (The FSPort, in its un-MediaVPs form, runs on FS2 retail, whereas the MediaVPs require FS2_Open and its modding support).
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Offline headdie

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Re: Why keep this separate?
not sure if you are talking about the regular mediavp or the port-mediavps

Regular MediaVPs is a resource to make the game look and sound better and while most mods reference it it can interfere with mods not designed to use it so is generally kept separate from the main FS install, it also helps with troubleshooting and upgrading the vps with each version.

Port-mediavps is kept separate due to a desire to keep FS-Port retail FS2 compatible which many of the updates in the folder would block.

due to a quirk in how the thing is set up i believe you launch with port-mediavps, though its been a while since i ran port so that could be wrong
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Offline niffiwan

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Stepping back from the fsport-mediavps vs mediavps point, there is merit to the idea of having a clearer name than "MediaVPs".  Maybe the label in the installer could be changed to "Graphical Updates" or some similar wording? (Note that I'm not advocating changing the name on disk as that'd cause a heaps of issues).
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Offline zookeeper

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Yeah, I've always felt it should be named something obvious like "Assets Upgrade" instead. The name "MediaVPs" just doesn't mean anything.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Modern graphics upgrade (2014)
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Offline jr2

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Modern graphics upgrade (2014)

Media graphics upgrade? (more similar to the name on disk if they looked)

 

Online Goober5000

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Re: Why keep this separate?
The FSPort's goal is to make FS1 accessible to those who only own FS2
I want to clarify that this isn't quite correct.  The FSPort's goal is to enhance and upgrade FS1 era campaigns so that they can run on the FS2 engine -- and, by association, the FreeSpace Open engine.  Our goal is not to provide a substitute for FS1.  We encourage everybody who uses the FSPort, but only has FS2, to buy FS1 so that they can experience the game as it was originally released.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Why keep this separate?
HD Graphics Pack would be my pitch - it has the best affordable to contemporary gamers.

Please ditch the MVPs name.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Why keep this separate?
HD Graphics Pack would be my pitch - it has the best affordable to contemporary gamers.

Please ditch the MVPs name.

Absolutely concur.  This confused the hell out of me when I first found this place too.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Affordance not affordable!

 

Offline The E

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Re: Why keep this separate?
I agree with this sentiment. "HD Upgrade pack" sounds boring, but boring is what we (or rather, the new users) need.

The problem of course is that _everything_ here and in the mod.inis refers to the MediaVPs.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Why keep this separate?
I can see why you'd want to change the name. Just keep in mind they've been called mediavps for so long that many used to that will still call them mediavps. It could cause more confusion changing it than leaving it as-is. Especially if you change the names of all previous versions. This is the first time I've seen someone miss the mediavps. Everyone normally installs them just fine. The enhanced graphics are probably the most obvious thing FSO brings to the table. Most people even if they don't get the mediavps will notice the graphics are still retail and come looking for the reason why. Lots of files have obscure names.

And what The E said, so much material refers to mediavps. With that as well, I think it would be preferable to leave the name alone.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Why keep this separate?
E, I think we need to approach this as a branding thing. The name obviously needs to change, but we can figure out a way to do it with limited wake. Moving to 'MVP HD Pack' or 'MVP Graphics Pack' is probably a good first step. We can alter the mod.ini name without altering the folder name.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Why keep this separate?
The problem of course is that _everything_ here and in the mod.inis refers to the MediaVPs.
So don't change the mod.ini files.

(Note that I'm not advocating changing the name on disk as that'd cause a heaps of issues).
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Offline The E

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Re: Why keep this separate?
E, I think we need to approach this as a branding thing. The name obviously needs to change, but we can figure out a way to do it with limited wake. Moving to 'MVP HD Pack' or 'MVP Graphics Pack' is probably a good first step. We can alter the mod.ini name without altering the folder name.

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Why keep this separate?
The support and documentation wake will be larger, but I think we can absorb it.

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Why keep this separate?
What about people who search the forum and find instructions to install vps or mods saying compatible with certain vps? Or people who don't know the new name giving out conflicting information. Threads going back years saying mod X and campaign Y requires mediavps. All mods with their own mediavps use the mediavps naming convention.

Are we all going to have to rename our vps if the name is changed, or rename other things?

It's a big can of worms. I wouldn't open it just because one person missed the mediavps. What happens when someone misses one of the other obscure named files?

Almost all of us know and understand the mediavps naming convention. Let's keep it that way and help others to understand it too. If a change is to be made, how about the next time there's a new set of mediavps?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Why keep this separate?
We can start by improving the installer's affordance. Let's move the nomenclature there to 'MVP 2014 Graphics Pack'. Should help explain to new users what the MVPs do. Any objections?

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Why keep this separate?
Graphics upgrades are obviously the vast majority of what MVPs contains, but it has music and sounds too, so having a name which implies that it's graphics only might not be such a good idea.