Author Topic: Stellar Assault FSO - The Old Thread  (Read 38482 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bizzybody

  • 29
  • Space Viking
    • Fandemonium 2008!
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
I like the plot laid out for this remake/homage to the original game, but have some issues with the depiction of terraforming Venus.

Not only does Venus rotate really slowly, it also rotates in the opposite direction of all the other planets in the solar system. Making it go faster the direction it's already going would be less trouble than trying to reverse its spin. The new moon you park in orbit around it will likewise have to run the opposite way from every other moon in the solar system. Ask a scientist who knows about orbital mechanics if you're interested in the nitty gritty details.

Next up, for your new Venusian and Martian moons, you'll have to watch out for the Roche Limit. It varies depending on the size of the two bodies and the tensile strength of the smaller body. What the limit is, is the closest the smaller body can orbit the larger without breaking up from tidal stress. the 'ideal' Roche Limit is often calculated with the smaller body having the strength of water. Solid bodies can get closer.

After its slow, retrograde rotation, the next largest obstacle to terraforming Venus is its atmosphere. It has far too much of it and the wrong combination of gasses. The surface pressure is about 92 times Earth's. Its surface temperature is between 800 and 900 degrees F or around 460 degrees C.

The *last* thing you want to do is slam comets or anything else into Venus that'll add more gasses to the atmosphere. You need to eliminate 90% of it, ending up with around 70% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, 0.03% carbon dioxide. Other trace gasses, no problem as long as they're not irritants or deadly poisons. Even then little bits of stuff like chlorine and sulfur won't be an issue. Water vapor and ozone will come naturally when you get around to filling the oceans. Ozone is naturally created and destroyed constantly by solar radiation.

One idea I've had for simultaneously dealing with the rotation and atmosphere problems is to build several giant towers around the equator. Put some frikin huge nuclear rockets (based on the NERVA or DUMBO designs) that use the Venusian atmosphere as reaction mass, pumped up from below, through some handwavium device that keeps the nitrogen and oxygen while passing most of the rest. Over time the thrust spins Venus up to a 24 hour day, sunrise in the West! Once started, pumping wouldn't be required due to the huge pressure differential between the surface and the vacuum of space at the tower tops. Giant nuclear powered siphon pumps, no moving parts but the reaction mass of Venusian atmosphere.

The "air" would have to be accelerated to escape velocity, otherwise it'd just whirl around a bit and fall back down, mostly negating the effort to increase the spin, sort of like putting a fan on the stern of a sailboat, blowing into the sail. ;)

Another method would use the towers, but in combination with electromagnetic catchers and accelerators to grab and hurl large pressure tanks that run in highly eccentric orbits around Venus. Catch an empty tank, which adds a little spin to Venus, fill it full of compressed gasses then fling it away, which also adds a little spin. When the tanks are far enough away from the planet, vent the gasses in such a way they won't get back to Venus. the vented gas could also be used to guide and accelerate the tanks back to be grabbed again. That would take massive amounts of power, so again something nuclear.

Lots and lots and lots of tanks would be required, possibly millions. Extra 'kick' could be provided by periodically sending in tanks full of water, compressed oxygen, loads of cargo etc. Whatever's useful and HEAVY to be grabbed and add its kinetic energy to making Venus spin faster.

Either way the major MAJOR problem is what to build the towers of that can withstand the extreme surface temperatures.

If you want to get into higher high tech, use antimatter to react with small amounts of the atmosphere and blast that through a siphon jet, dragging up large gulps of air. Of course the antimatter would have to be totally annihilated with normal matter so none comes in contact with any of the parts of the system you want to keep intact. Then there'd be the problem of the rather large amounts of hard radiation created, wouldn't want anything like, oh, Earth getting in the path of the exhaust streams. Other than those piddling little issues, lots more thrust and shorter time to those scenic western sunrises. ;)

Finally, a quote from some book I can only remember this from. "On Venus, if your exhaust temperature isn't hotter than the atmosphere, you're not running a rocket, you're running a refrigerator." Was something about how difficult it is to have jet propelled aircraft in an atmosphere as hot as Venus when even at 1,000 degrees F exhaust temperature the engines were horribly inefficient.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 05:17:06 am by bizzybody »
"They were really only teeny little A-bombs, honest!" Dr. Charles Dart

 

Offline bizzybody

  • 29
  • Space Viking
    • Fandemonium 2008!
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
For some idea of how harsh Venusian surface conditions are, the only probes to survive landing on the surface were the USSR's Venera 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14. The longest any survived was Venera 13 at 127 minutes. It may have lasted long enough for its batteries to go dead, before the heat fried the electronics.

Before Venera 7 the probes were only built to withstand 25 times Earth pressure and were crushed before reaching the surface, failed to get to Venus or lost communications before getting to Venus. Venera 3 lost communication just before entering the atmosphere and became the first manmade object (and first manmade piece of space junk) to land on the surface of another planet.

Most of the series that survived long enough to send data back from the surface had various equipment failures, including camera lens covers failing to pop off. 9 and 10 had two cameras each but one cover on each probe failed to release. The cover design was changed for 11 and 12 but on those none of the covers came off. Venera 14 had the bad luck of one of its camera covers landing exactly where the soil compression probe was made to touch the surface.

Venus is quite the nastiest place in the solar system with a solid surface reachable by human technology. That gives some idea of the difficulty of doing anything with Venus.

Terraforming Mars would be far easier. It needs a whole lot more atmosphere, but no additional carbon dioxide at all. Some way to get rid of most of what it has would be a good thing. Periodic replenishment would be required due to Mars' low gravity being unable to hang onto it, though it'd likely be on a time scale of thousands of years before a built up atmosphere would bleed away to too little to breathe and hold in warmth. It's unknown what the peak of the Martian atmosphere was, but from surface erosion features it had to have been enough to have high enough pressure and temperatures for liquids to flow in large quantities. Another factor for Mars could be its lack of a large moon of approximately the same size ratio as Earth's moon to keep tidal stress heating going in the Martian core. That's another unknown for Mars, does it still have any molten or semi-molten rock? It has a very weak magnetic field but it's unknown whether or not it has a strong dipole orientation like Earth's. In any case, particles from the Solar wind can hit Mars more strongly than they can Earth, which doesn't help atmosphere stick around. Quite odd that so little study of this has been done. Most martian probes have had no magnetic field instruments.

It's even worse for Venus. It has no magnetic field and it's unknown why, mainly due to there being such a tiny amount of data obtained through the Venera probes. We know it's really frigging hot and the pressure is high and in a few spots there are types of basalt rock similar to some found on Earth and that's pretty much it. If an internal dynamo like Earth's could be jump started by making Venus spin faster and finding it a Moon-sized moon, that'd help a lot. Otherwise Venusians will need SPF one-billion sunscreen to go outdoors.
"They were really only teeny little A-bombs, honest!" Dr. Charles Dart

 
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Hey, don't ruin the perfectly good plot with reality, okay?
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Bizzy, I truly appreciate that you took the time to read my backstory outline, and my mind is blown with the amount of input you have regarding that.
However, SpardaSon is right in saying, don't get realism mixed up in the plot.
I did my best to take into account all the factors and hindrances towards colonization of Venus-like worlds. However, there are two primary of reasons for even suggesting that Venus is terraformed at all.

1. In the Sega Saturn Version of Stellar Assault, a good 5 missions take place over Terra-Formed Venus, no (english) explanation is given for exactly HOW they did it, they simply did.
2. In both Stellar Assault Games, (32x & Saturn), there are Acceleration Gates, and in both games, asteroids are shot through them.

In my process of writing the Story Outline, I've simply done my best to connect all of the "cool" elements of the Original games into a coherent story and plot line. Finally, if I change the story's "science" behind Venus-World terraforming, then the whole basis for the Game's War is completely defunct. So, respectfully, I will have to decline the suggestions you've made in the game's back-story.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Double Posting!
For those of you who remember Thearis' Concept Sketch for the Feather 4:


I present the completed Geometry!


And here is a view from the proposed Eyepoint:

00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Niiiiiice  :nod:
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline headdie

  • i don't use punctuation lol
  • 212
  • Lawful Neutral with a Chaotic outook
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • Headdie on Deviant Art
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
nice wook, just goes to show what happens when you mix good concept art with a good modeller, keep it up guys
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
quote General Battuta - "FRED is canon!"
Contact me at [email protected]
My Release Thread, Old Release Thread, Celestial Objects Thread, My rubbish attempts at art

 

Offline Rodo

  • Custom tittle
  • 212
  • stargazer
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
yeah, it's starting to look really nice.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
  • 211
  • Away in Limbo
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Quanto, I'd like to say that I'm sorry I couldn't get the time to go back and over the concept art for you...

...I'd also like to say that your interpretation of the design is damn sexy!

 ;)

Awesome work, man!
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke


"The Windows Operating System: It can only get worse from here!"

-Me



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Lookin' Gooood~  :yes:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
I"ve been on a big push to get the Human Space-craft finished. Here are the Feather 3 and the Feather Support Craft. The Feather 3 is a torpedo bomber featured in the second mission of the Sega Saturn Version.


The Feather Support Craft (FSC) is actually a core craft featured in both games. It serves as a refueler support ship and also as an AWACS/EWS craft in the Saturn Version, it will continue to fill all of those roles in our version of the game.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
  • 211
  • Away in Limbo
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Hmmm...

I was thinking about something for the Feather 3, actually... If I get some time, I could put my pencil to use for you again if you'd like.

*EDIT

Quanto, do you think you could send me a couple shots of the Original Feather 3 from Stellar Assault?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 12:14:52 am by Thaeris »
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke


"The Windows Operating System: It can only get worse from here!"

-Me



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Enjoy
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
  • 211
  • Away in Limbo
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Hmmm...

So it did have the cockpit out in front after all... My initial interpretaions of the design suggested that the canopy was further aft.

*EDIT

I've been playing with a few preliminary sketches, but I really need to know how big this bird is. Do you have some dimensions I can work with?

...I also really want to stick a particle beam cannon under that nose...  ;7
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 01:48:25 pm by Thaeris »
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke


"The Windows Operating System: It can only get worse from here!"

-Me



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Well, the Feather 3 is totally not a dog-fighter, and as far as the campaigns are concerned, NONE of the missions will make the player fly it. It will be available as a flyable ship in Multiplayer, but as a singleplayer craft, it will only be flown by the AI.

The weapons we have tabled for it are 2x2 Primary banks, and a 1x4 Secondary (for the torpedoes). I really don't want to equip it with the PBW just because that has always been planed as a special weapon for the Feather 2 only. The primary weapons planned for the F3 are probably going to be special anti-subsystem weapons. But really, the 4 Torpedoes will be enough to destroy even a BattleCruiser, so its already got the firepower required for its purpose. In the existing model that I've put together, it has two RPFCs under the Chin/Nose.

Actually I was wondering if you would like to design some of the fighters that would be flown by our in-universe privateers who hang around Alpha Centauri. They will be flying pre-feather generation fighters (so about 80 years old) and they should look like precursors to the current fighters. Other than that I grant you full design freedom.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
  • 211
  • Away in Limbo
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Indeed - the '3 should probably handle like a potato. :p

As far as older-gen ships go, I was actually looking at Gall Force's Bain fighter today. The craft shares quite a few lines with the Feathers and also has quite an older feel to it - the vector petals make it reminiscent of a B5 fighter. I think I could derive something from those lines to your liking.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke


"The Windows Operating System: It can only get worse from here!"

-Me



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
The Bain?! Really? I've always been a fan of the Balsam or the Wasp myself. They have beautiful curves.
But I trust you to produce some pretty designs. I was actually wondering if you could sketch out some nice textures too, for the Feather 1 and 2. They really do look rather plain, and while I am aiming to keep them looking clean and painted, they are lacking some "mechanical" elements. Nothing too complex or unrefined, but something that adds to the overall design of the models. I'm at a loss for ideas myself, and my nostalgia goggles really do cloud my judgment in terms of "modernizing" the designs for the game.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Spoon

  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Can I has Bronze-D (X is fine too)?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Quanto

  • Moderator
  • 28
  • Permanent Nostalgia Goggles
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Sorry Spoon, no mechs in space.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
  • 211
  • Away in Limbo
Re: Stellar Assault FSO - A Total Conversion
Sorry Spoon, no mechs in space.
* Thaeris approves of this message!

Good work, Quanto.  :lol:
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke


"The Windows Operating System: It can only get worse from here!"

-Me



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke