Author Topic: Let's talk, HLP!  (Read 82134 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Gaming discussion is good.

 

Offline Admiral Nelson

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Wow, I can't believe my favorite game is still alive? What's hot? What's everyone talking about? Donald Trump and someone concern trolling about the gays. Oh.

I actually laughed out loud upon reading this as it describes me, basically, during most of my recent absence.  Whenever I did check on the board I saw exactly that, and quickly closed it again.  I'm sure new people looking at the site would do the same -- what good is a freespace board in which nobody talks about freespace? :)
If a man consults whether he is to fight, when he has the power in his own hands, it is certain that his opinion is against fighting.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Better dead than ged

 

Offline JSRNerdo

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Gaming discussion is good.
not empty quoting this
Former Inferno lead, BTA fredder-ish and DE fredder. Driven out by ordinary fascists the_e, aesaar and general battuta. Will return if they're ever removed.

 

Offline jr2

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I am sure Gendisc attracts a lot of users for its many fruitful and fascinating discussions of non-FreeSpace related topics. Wait hang on

Project forums go over my dead rancid pale wormlike body.
And Gen Disc. (or something like it) should, and almost certainly is, staying. We're trying to grow HLP's userbase, not drive people away.
You say that like Gen Disc. doesn't actively drive people away (and if you were planning on saying it does not, there are people who only use IRC and stay off the forums specifically because Gen Disc. is a ****hole who would disagree with you).

Gen Disc is what you make of it.  So if you don't like it, stop.  When someone posts something that grinds your gears, either politely disagree, politely inform them they aren't being polite, or stay off the air.  "If you can't say nothin' good, don't say nothin' at all!"  You guys are acting like Gen Disc is this alien entity, when it is quite literally what all of you have to offer that's not on-topic, be that for better or worse.

 

Offline General Battuta

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It's actually alien ****.

When was the last time you played a new release!

 

Offline General Battuta

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And we are judged by the face we show newcomers.

 

Offline Thisisaverylongusername

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I mostly agree with eliminating gendisc, however I am concerned that if you do delete gendisc, discussions that used to go in gendisc would find places elsewhere on the forums.
If the opposite of pro is con, then is the opposite of progress Congress?

 
I can understand the concerns with gendisc - especially given the anecdotes concerning Admiral Nelson et al. - but I don't think simply excising it is the way to go, either. In this day and age, it's fairly expected that some sort of off-topic section will exist. What I'd suggest is, rather than deleting it, fragmenting it. Have a "casual discussion" section for not-FS funtimes, an a "serious discussion" section for more serious topics. There are two advantages here. First, it makes expectations clear - you don't go into the casual section for a political debate. Second, if there's concern about existing politics threads turning off new users, the serious section can simply be hidden from the activity list. If someone asks why, we just tell them it's known to get heated. There'd probably be some way to opt-in to seeing it, perhaps automatically once you've posted there or something, but that's the idea.





Come to think of it, just hiding gendesc from the activity list might be a better idea. Either way, this also addresses verylong's concern.

 

Offline jr2

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It's actually alien ****.

When was the last time you played a new release!

The last time I had a rig that wasn't a) a laptop and / or b) using Intelgrated graphics.  So, five years? Six?  I've got a new rig now, but the R9 280X I bought still under warranty with a "bad BIOS flash" actually had a bad BIOS flash + the user replaced the old thermal paste with a bucketload of thermal past and shorted the board out, which I found out when I sent it in for an RMA after flashing the correct BIOS didn't fix it.  And my laptop heats up to the point that I worry it's going to eventually damage something, and until I got this new desktop, that was my only computer.

So, yeah, not fiddling around with attempting to get FSO working on Intel.  Plan on getting a new card in a month or two.

And we are judged by the face we show newcomers.


... That's literally what I just said.  You get a sampling of what HLP is by looking at Gen Disc.  Stop being so grumpy, it's not necessary to allow that side through even when vehemently disagreeing with someone.  There's this attitude of "you can't tell me what to do, it's the Internet and you can't make me I work on important **** here".   It's the same issue you run into with all-volunteer emergency agencies like fire departments and EMS squads.  They don't show up for a scheduled shift, what are you going to do, take them off the schedule?  Those places also feature high turnover and a lot of politics that frankly doesn't belong in a professional force, which is what they are supposed to be.

The solution is simple: enforce the rules, even when it hurts.  The "I work on important mods / I fix the FSO engine" is no excuse for being rude.  The #1 rule on the discussion boards should simply be "be nice".  You probably couldn't even put "treat others the way you'd want to be treated" because then you'd get "well if I was a pile of loser shiyt I'd hope someone would kick me in the teeth!"

The other problem is dogpiling.  This is hard to quantify, but... opposing views that are in the minority have a tendency to accrue about ten responses from the defending 'team' for every point they make, and the 'offense' guy (or maybe two) is expected to answer every single objection point by point, and then they are met with another onslaught.


"But that's because they're wrong, and we're right!"  You don't have to dogpile to prove that.  Just state "I see how you could think that because z, y, and x, but because of c, b, and a, I disagree"

I mean, you can do what you want, but a lot of times it feels like /r/politics in Gen Disc.  Free example: Dragon.  You can disagree with his ideas about Monarchies being a superior form of government without thinking he's dense for believing that, just because he didn't melt before your awesome display of reason and intelligence.  To be frank, he's treated quite rudely.  And you think he deserves it, so therefore you're in the right.  Which, I'm afraid, as far as your public and inter-personal relations goes, makes you wrong.

If you can't get a handle on this problem ▲ then, in fact, Battuta may be right, you may have to no longer allow for any discussion about non-gaming related topics, and you may even have to muzzle that, see the Gamergate discussion.  The only topics allowed are strictly mod-related, because HLP does not play well with others.  (I'm speaking in terms of the possible future here; I personally think it's ridiculous that the whole talented lot of you aren't more laid back, I mean, it's the Internet, amirite?!)

Or maybe I'm just crazy.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 06:36:36 pm by jr2 »

 

Offline Nyctaeus

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C'mon! Lots of people come here for general discussion, especially to flame others and hate their beliefs [so called cultural exchange of views]. That's the best way to rid off your frustration :D! If gendisc is deleted, lots of people will loose sense of life! Besides, it's a true mine of laugh. All these people talking about muslim migrants and gay rights... They are not discussing to share beliefs. They all do this to prove other side they are right. Only them! Never the other side.

Legendary quote from polish comedy comes to my mind: My reason is the most mine, and yours is less your than mine is mine.

Enough irony. TLDR: leave our /b as it is. Lots of discussion here, especially political and religion-related are a mess, but if we take people their /b, they will make /b somewhere else. The only thing it needs is more rigorous moderation, more warns and other pleasures. Sooo... My two cents. You may continue, guys.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | Inferno | Series Resurrecta  | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 
 
The problem with setting a groundwork for honest political debate is that this groundwork is in itself political, as is this discussion. Having a groundwork that operates on the notion that people are respected equally means that you have immeaditely shut down all the political discussion that revolves around not respecting people equally, which as it turns out is an awfull lot of politics (the being empathic about the unempathic problem). The political discussions on Gendisc have a tendency to be rather US centric, but the rhetorics used in the US in itself are completely antithetical to having a positive, friendly and constructive community. Hostile views towards LGBT are part of some political and/or religious leanings, but espousing those views means espousing that hostility, either directly or indirectly, towards the forum members who those views happen to be about.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
You're not crazy, jr2. It's just that this isn't a vision shared by the majority of people here unfortunately.

I would be interested to know if anyone who participates in gen disc feels they get a return on their investment of time and energy, and crucially, for a reason other than "pwning" or hurting people, or feeling they need to go to battle for their beliefs, etc.

 
The absurd degree to which the Twenty Questions thread took off is IMO a good case for the argument that HLP still has the userbase and interest to talk about Freespace plenty.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
I would say no non-Freespace or FSMod related politics ... one could argue that there are plenty of politics in Freespace and the mods here, just not the stupid drama kind.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Guaranteed unpopular idea... Specific, moderately high post count and/or account age to even see GD...
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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if we take people their /b, they will make /b somewhere else
One, that's not how human psychology works (if you take away their /b/ people may just stop posting /b/-grade content), and two, as long as "somewhere else" is someplace other than HLP, then HLP is still better off.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Guaranteed unpopular idea... Specific, moderately high post count and/or account age to even see GD...

Not sure about that on its own, but if it were merely that you could not post to GD or create a thread without moderator review until you're past the mandatory period ... that might just be ok.  I've seen sites that do this, very good at keeping trolls at bay, since they are usually looking to provoke people from the start and in most cases do not have the patience or drive to create enough legit, non-troll posts to get in.

 
 
Guaranteed unpopular idea... Specific, moderately high post count and/or account age to even see GD...

I disagree with that, as it doesn't fix the fundamental conflict with having a free-speech-based board on what is otherwise a safe space for freespace gaming, modding and critique of all of those.