Author Topic: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?  (Read 5459 times)

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Offline The E

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The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
Given that talk about this show has invaded the Discovery thread (and given that I just saw the first few episodes of it), let's have a topic about it.

Right, so where to start? At the pilot, I guess.... which was terrible. It's like a Star Trek pilot where instead of awkward exposition we have cringey humour. It definitely left a bad impression.

Thankfully, the show does improve -- meaning that it rises to average TNG season 2 quality. I can see that this show has potential; its characters (apart from MacFarlane's Captain) have a good basis, and there definitely is a place for more lighthearted SF fare out there.

So, for the moment, I'll keep watching, I guess (If only for Adrianne Palicki, Penny Johnson Jerald and Halston Sage)... and keep hoping for the moment where this show really does deliver a good story.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Damage

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I'm loving this show, and for precisely some of the reasons I've seen in reviews so far.  It's much lighter in tone, and I can really get behind that.  I haven't decided if its a comedy show with heavy sci-fi elements, or a sci-fi show with comedy elements.   (Leaning towards that latter.)

The first couple episodes were really kinda shallow/low end, but still enjoyable.  The next two were definite improvements.

As for the characters, I like what they're doing with most of them, and I'm looking forward to some of the (surely coming soon) "My Character's Episode" for the other characters.  I have some deeper thoughts for most of them, but I'm going to save that for after a few more episodes have come down.

I like to think this is what Star Trek or even TNG would've looked like if it had been made today, though certainly those shows would've still been more serious in tone.  Certainly it's put together like they were.  As I was telling a friend at work this morning, this is almost like a workplace sitcom--if this was set in an office or strip mall or etc. nobody would bat an eye and it would be just another comedy with a bunch of snarky characters.  Instead it's a reasonably funny show with a sci-fi setting--and there aren't terribly too many of those.  That said, there's apparently a lot of love for older Trek stuff (TOS and maybe even early TNG) and probably for several other older shows that I'm not even remembering.

Episode 4 really stood out for me, though it wasn't necessarily the best one so far.  Yes, the plot was a little predictable but I just really geeked out hard when (spoiler) the crew got aboard the derelict spaceship and started exploring--it took me about four seconds and then I realized where the music came from.  I just loved that.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
The plots have shallow TNG ideas - interesting as setups, but never go far enough for me - and low key McFarlane humour (which actually sits fine by me, but to call this a "comedy" is stretching). Episode 3 is a kind of a litmus test for me. If you think this is a good episode, we won't meet our minds at all. It's a terrible episode with an incredibly good setup. It just executes it very badly at the end. However it has been hailed by many trekkies as a great episode that puts Orville in this great place amongst TNG stuff. It doesn't. I agree with The_E that it is about the same par as TNG season 2, which is... a bit odd given we are in 2017, not 1989.

Episode 4 was completely predictable from beggining to end and just screamed TNG cliché plot. Worse than that, there is apparently very little moral consequences. This must come from Seth himself, the kind of out-of-nowhere violence (there's a guy who gets killed), but then, apparently, there's never a moment of self-reflection or a condemnation happening at the end. It's as if whatever wrongness happened, it's excused and forgotten because, you know, it would break the simple plot or whatever. In TNG this would never happen, there was a certain kind of gravitas that is absolutely void in here, substituted rather by a deadpan delivery of some sort of cynical comedy.

Good points though: its characters are more fleshed out than in Discovery! They are actually interesting! Even though the first episode was the worst, I did enjoy the divorce dynamics between the captain and the XO, a kind of a first in these sorts of space soap operas. I like the chief of security, she's a good character! Isaac is good fun. Etc.

As it stands, I foresee good banter between characters that are enjoyable to watch amongst terribly predictable and clichéd TNG style allegories that are not even as fleshed out to the bone as the originals were. Which, if you think about it, it's exactly the opposite of what you'd say about Discovery on this point: unappealling characters (except for Saru) with no banter at all within a "IDK what is happening next" kind of interesting environment!

I give it a 6/10 so far, which is really something way beyond the abysmal 20% rotten tomatoes score amongst "critics" that it has been having. I have *no* idea what these morons are watching. Meanwhile, the fans give it a 90% approval rating.

it took me about four seconds and then I realized where the music came from.  I just loved that.

Hadn't noticed it before, but it's great indeed. They do show good taste in their scores references.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 11:17:56 am by Luis Dias »

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
Episode 5 is soooo TNG. Directed by Jonathan Frakes himself! Oh boy that pratical joke. This show is growing on me, slowly.

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I give it a 6/10 so far, which is really something way beyond the abysmal 20% rotten tomatoes score amongst "critics" that it has been having. I have *no* idea what these morons are watching. Meanwhile, the fans give it a 90% approval rating.

Looking at the reviews cited on rottentomatoes? They were watching the pilot. Most reviews there are dated from September 7th to September 11th, and are mostly about the pilot or the first three episodes, and based purely on those, I would say that a low rating like that is understandable. The fan reviews, by contrast, are more recent -- and are also bereft of nuance: I see a lot of 5 and 4 star ratings there, which the show really, really doesn't deserve. I can see people liking this, sure, but to declare this the greatest show on TV is definitely wrong.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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Offline Charismatic

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I really enjoy this show. I been wanted syfi for a while and this fits the bill. Getting to episode 6, its really getting serious. They need to add a lot more humor back in. Ep 5 had a bit of humor. I hope they get a good balance of story and humor. Sofar it seems one or the other.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I don't know about that. Ep 6 for me was the one that had the most humor. Pretty much everything that came out of Gordon's mouth while he was undercover was something you should never say while undercover.
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Offline The E

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I want to like this show. I really do. I love most of the cast, I even like most of their characters, but the plots....

So Episode 7 just happened, AKA the reddit AMAs are bad, m'kay? episode.

It's.... terrible. They are trying to do a Black Mirror, and they are failing hard at it. I can't really fault the intention here, but.... the execution is just bad all around. It never manages to ring true in any way. If this is what Orville is without the cringey humour? Please bring the cringey humour back. Because this isn't working.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I love black mirror in a way, but if I'm honest, bm is unwatchable, because it's just too hard on me. The BM episode that deals with this stuff I couldn't watch past the first few minutes, I just sense where it is going and my brain just yells "shut that thing off, I'm having really bad feelings all around, gimme penguins instead, puppies, soft cuddle things even though I despise them! ANYTHING!"

Orville uses humour as a way to give you some breathing room from the unconfortableness of this, but I agree that the plots just don't work, except if you read them as a kind of sketch-like take of the former kind, without the consistencies and seriousness needed of a "serious" episode that demands your serious part of the brain to be on. This is how they can pull the "This is totally Earth 21st century but not", which is, in a way, much more honest than half of TNG's concepts. The way they look surprised at all the coincidences is also an amusing parody.

But at the same time, they try to argue about serious matters, like social media and how rule of twitter mob isn't really a good social paradigm. Now, can they really have the cake and eat it? I dunno. The show isn't without flaws, its hiccups, some bad acting and some bad writing (why can't they just beam him up while no one's looking?).

OTOH, they still do have cringe humour. The whole setup is based around a very particular instance of cringe humour.

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I love black mirror in a way, but if I'm honest, bm is unwatchable, because it's just too hard on me. The BM episode that deals with this stuff I couldn't watch past the first few minutes, I just sense where it is going and my brain just yells "shut that thing off, I'm having really bad feelings all around, gimme penguins instead, puppies, soft cuddle things even though I despise them! ANYTHING!"

Orville uses humour as a way to give you some breathing room from the unconfortableness of this, but I agree that the plots just don't work, except if you read them as a kind of sketch-like take of the former kind, without the consistencies and seriousness needed of a "serious" episode that demands your serious part of the brain to be on. This is how they can pull the "This is totally Earth 21st century but not", which is, in a way, much more honest than half of TNG's concepts. The way they look surprised at all the coincidences is also an amusing parody.

Yeah, Black Mirror is sometimes bleak to the point of unwatchability, but that, to me, makes it a better critique of whatever it is they're criticizing.

As for this particular episode, I think what got me is that it reads, at least partially, as lazy: Instead of making aliens happen via makeup or digital FX, they're just normal humans except for a clothing accessory. They even speak and write english! This is something that I can forgive on a show like Doctor Who much more readily than on a show like this.

Quote
But at the same time, they try to argue about serious matters, like social media and how rule of twitter mob isn't really a good social paradigm. Now, can they really have the cake and eat it? I dunno. The show isn't without flaws, its hiccups, some bad acting and some bad writing (why can't they just beam him up while no one's looking?).

Well, that last one's easy at least: They can't beam because they can't beam. No Transporter tech on Orville, apparently.

Quote
OTOH, they still do have cringe humour. The whole setup is based around a very particular instance of cringe humour.

I never thought it possible for a crew to be worse at first contact than Archer's Enterprise crew, but here we are.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
Ahah I hadn't even noticed they don't have teleportation. That's actually a plus in the show for me, no silly tactics and plot contrivances with that shenanigan.

Regarding the totally humans but not, I have to disagree with you here. A nose makeup alien is so goddamned infuriatingly offensive otherwise. I 100% accept it because shows like Star Trek always had budget constraints, and what matters are the stories and the moral insights, and the fact you can't handle subtle stuff like "acting" with too much make up (hello Klingons from Discovery). But if you just look at those Star Trek episodes, it's so cringe worthy and so funny at the same time. I think just going full "Whatever bro" is way more honest, unless you're going to argue that a 99.9% human like alien that has some different skin inflection somewhere in their face is completely way more probable to find out there in the galaxy than human clones. If you're really willing to go there, well by all means, I just find it ridiculous. I say it again, the fact they did it at 100% and pointed out at it was actually pretty funny.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
Ahah I hadn't even noticed they don't have teleportation. That's actually a plus in the show for me, no silly tactics and plot contrivances with that shenanigan.

Regarding the totally humans but not, I have to disagree with you here. A nose makeup alien is so goddamned infuriatingly offensive otherwise. I 100% accept it because shows like Star Trek always had budget constraints, and what matters are the stories and the moral insights, and the fact you can't handle subtle stuff like "acting" with too much make up (hello Klingons from Discovery). But if you just look at those Star Trek episodes, it's so cringe worthy and so funny at the same time. I think just going full "Whatever bro" is way more honest, unless you're going to argue that a 99.9% human like alien that has some different skin inflection somewhere in their face is completely way more probable to find out there in the galaxy than human clones. If you're really willing to go there, well by all means, I just find it ridiculous. I say it again, the fact they did it at 100% and pointed out at it was actually pretty funny.

They did have that one episode in TNG where it turned out all species were offspring off some precursor species that was sad they were all alone in the universe and hence choose to seed life throughout the galaxy ... and hence, due to their common ancestor, all Star Trek species had similar physical appearance. The Klingons were furious and of course and denied the possibility they could be somehow related to humans at all on the spot - despite the "evidence".

And yeah the "reason" of course still were budget restraints, but still I thought the kind of self referential humor adressing the proverbial elephant in the room was a nice touch. ;-)


With CGI advancing we may eventually see a show with "real alien" Aliens at some point ... I mean if they can make fake Princess Leia they should be able to make real aliens before long :P

Related: Right now I'm reading a novel about an experiment on a virgin planet with an uplift virus gone wrong ... where the virus instead of latching on to the intended primates to be observed over several generations ... due to the untimely demise of said primates and most researchers, latches on to spiders instead. I'd watch that if they made it a show - or Trek/Orville episode.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 05:41:08 pm by Mikes »

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
Just finished watching Episode 8. If you didn't enjoy that episode I really can't see why you'd like TNG either.
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Offline The E

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
It's an okay episode. It is a very Trek episode at that (you could easily slot this plot into TNG or DS9 and it wouldn't register as out of place in any way).

(Also, Penny Johnson Jerald does a hell of a job carrying this episode, as do the two child actors; They have a very thankless role to play, but they do it extremely well and, I felt, with a good amount of verisimilitude)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 05:44:09 am by The E »
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
It's an okay episode. It is a very Trek episode at that (you could easily slot this plot into TNG or DS9 and it wouldn't register as out of place in any way).

Yeah, the fact that this easily could have been a Crusher(s) + Data episode of TNG is exactly what I meant. More ammo for the theory that McFarlane just wanted to make more TNG but couldn't get the network to allow him to until he promised it would be a comedy. I really hope the network execs are now seeing that the humour isn't the reason why we're watching the show and they are allowed to tone it back to the kind of level we had on episode 5 (where it was funny but didn't drive the plot).
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Offline Damage

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I haven't seen episode 8 yet (later today) but I've still enjoyed every episode so far.  Part of the appeal for me right now is that the stories are relatively easy to follow, and by that I mean I don't have to sit and pay 100% attention the whole time and still keep up.  I also like that by and large, like the show(s) that inspired it, The Orville is touching on subjects that are relevant today.  I hope they don't get too heavy-handed on things.

I'm really liking the whole cast, I'm looking forward to episodes that will continue to round out the characters, especially those who haven't seen a lot of spotlight.

One thing I'd like to see more of is a little bit of world-building, but that's just the nerd in me.  "How big is the Union?"  "Are there other antagonists than the Krill?"  Stuff like that.  I suppose it's still early enough in the series potential lifetime that they'll get around to more of that later, assuming they get picked up for more seasons.  I'm also hoping that as the series continues, the stories will get a bit deeper, there will be longer-lasting plot-relevant storylines.  I wouldn't necessarily want it to get as involved as DS9 or Voyager, though.

I suppose the biggest claim for support for me is the fact that my wife will sit and watch the episodes with me, and she doesn't like sci-fi in general.

I didn't feel like putting anything here.  Then I did it anyway just to be contrary.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
wow, that was definitely the best episode so far, the comedy aspect was kept to a minimum and it really did feel just like a TNG ep.
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Offline Blue Lion

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
Maybe this is heresy but I couldn't stand TNG or DS9. They didn't seem like real people if that makes sense. The Orville is closer but I think shot over the mark a bit into zany a little.

I never watched TNG or DS9 as a complete series as a kid. I would catch episodes here and there. Going back to look at them now is painful. If I had to pick which to watch, surely Orville.

I still have issues with the show though. They do some of the same single planet episodes where they land, solve a problem and then leave. One, I won't spoil which, had me turn to my wife and say "You know those people are screwed right? You can't just 'Hi, we're going to overthrow your civilization this episode, peace out!' One side is going to kill the other to gain power."


One thing I'd like to see more of is a little bit of world-building, but that's just the nerd in me.  "How big is the Union?"  "Are there other antagonists than the Krill?"  Stuff like that.  I suppose it's still early enough in the series potential lifetime that they'll get around to more of that later, assuming they get picked up for more seasons.  I'm also hoping that as the series continues, the stories will get a bit deeper, there will be longer-lasting plot-relevant storylines.  I wouldn't necessarily want it to get as involved as DS9 or Voyager, though.

That oddly is one thing I'm kind of happy with. We start getting exact numbers of planets, or species, or crew sizes it starts to be an "actually...." type things. In my mind, it doesn't need to be an extended universe for a TV show. It's a little off topic but I remember early Venture Bros used to just throw out references to things and they were funny partly because they were unexplained. In later seasons they started to answer those questions and the comedy was gone for me because the mystery was gone. Again, maybe I'm the weird one. My favorite Star Treks are Enterprise and Voyager. I know. Seriously.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
You have deep issues regarding your tastes. Don't tell me, you also enjoyed the Star Wars prequels. I know such people actually exist, and like Bush said about the fish, I too think we can coexist in the same planet, but barely!

Regarding the overthrowing government episode, I don't even know what you're talking about. As far as I can remember, there was no such Orville episode? The one with the Big Dumb Object in space had no such overthrowing?

 

Offline The E

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Re: The Orville -- it's okay, I guess?
I think he means the BDO episode? But even there, the conclusion was more like "Okay, we solved your immediate issue, a bunch of specialists will be along shortly after the episode ends to make sure you get settled in somewhere that is not a spaceship".
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns