Author Topic: Last updated VP??  (Read 21679 times)

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Offline Axem

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But there is a good number of ships that will be part of the next mediavps that are already up for download. Stuff like the Arcadia, Medusa, Rakshasa and more.

It's not as if they're hoarding them, and as quite a few others have said, nothing stops you from putting together your own impromptu set.

 
I'm not accusing them of hoarding them, I just don't get why the FSU team don't really seem to care whether people can easily use their models. I mean, did you spend all this time working on them just for them to sit on p3d and some filehosting sites, only to be enjoyed by the handful of users with the know-how and motivation to manually install all the new HTLs that've piled up?
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Offline Axem

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So would you like a tutorial on how to install these upgraded models?

 
No, because that's completely aside from the point. Jesus, why even have any MVPs at all if that's the attitude you're going to have? Why not just have a big list of model release threads, and tell noobs to install each and every one by hand as part of the standard FSO install process?
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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 Here's a though: Release the next MediaVPs in parts. Put the stuff available now and release it. Later, once all the ships are done, you can release a MVP Complete.

 Or... you can be unhelpful to those of us that have trouble surfing these damn forums looking for each model to download manually. Thus not getting them, thus making them nothing more than an esoteric trophy.

EDIT: Here's a more constructive idea: Give me a link to every model and I will make a pseudo-Media VP for the uninitiated.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 04:16:52 pm by An4ximandros »

 

Offline Axem

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Eeeeasy there, Phantom Hoover. We're going to go all over this again when the next mediavps do get released. Mediavps get released, Oddgrim releases a new HTL cargo container and releases it for the "handful" of people to install themselves. But apparently 99% of the people that don't know how to install it will get grumpy again and start this thread.

If education is a problem, then something should be done to help people keep up to date in the interim.

 
The thing is, we aren't talking about having a couple of nice models that won't make it into the MVPs for maybe a year here. We're talking about three years worth of assets, representing god knows how many man-hours of work, which are currently just sitting around in random threads in this board. For god's sake, look at this list. For one thing, there is absolutely no clear demarcation between models in the 2010 VPs and models released since; so you're basically expected to figure that out yourself from thread dates I guess. For another, at a rough estimate there are at least a dozen, maybe two dozen, new models there. That is just far too many to reasonably expect anyone to manually install, and I cannot believe that you consider doing so to still be an acceptable stop-gap.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline The Dagger

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As I already said, the updated models list is this one: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=78413.0
An4ximandros, the released models AFAIK are the Amun, Arcadia, Artemis, Artemis D.H., Boanerges, Ma'at, Isis, Medusa, Mentu, Seth, Osiris, Ptah, Rakshasa, Sathanas, Sekhmet and Sobek. From the latest FSU port you can also get a new Hades, Typhon, Dragon and Scorpion.
Also, for released models, you can go into the wiki for the ship and at the end of the article there's generally a download link under "modding resources" or something like that.
I do remember having some issues with the Medusa engine glows for some time 'till I found the solution in the same release thread.

 
Oh, thanks for that. I guess I was wrong about having to work it out from thread dates (but the rest of what I said still stands, in case anyone wants to fixate on that).
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline BrotherBryon

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Ok using that kind of tone is going to get you no where fast, Axem has shown remarkable patience answering you with civility and I applaud him for that. The FSU team hasn't as you say hoarded any models and has been really forthright with releasing assets as they have been completely finished and tested, I dare you to find another mod team that has done the same. Comments like the ones you have been making are counter productive and very discouraging. Before you post why don't ask yourself if I was a member of a mod team and had people talking to me like that would I really bust my ass working on my own free time to give them some thing or just walk away and not work on anything for a while.
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Offline Arpit

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From the latest FSU port you can also get a new Hades, Typhon, Dragon Shaitan and Scorpion.
Correction.
And talking of issues even the Artemis and Boanerges have issues. (LOD1 of Artemis doesnt have glass and LOD1 of Boanerges has engine texture on its front.

 
I'll repeat "There is no emotion, there is peace"

Seriously it's one thing to whine about changes in something you pay for, but all these guys (who are doing fantastic work, BTW) Have this thing called Real Life.

They are NOT paid to do this, Except in the satisfaction of a job well done and the respect of the community.

Take that away and the next mediaVPs will come out AFTER Half-life 3.

Always Respect and maybe offer help.

If you don't want to respect, and still want product, I'm sure at least some of these guys take PayPal  :) :yes:

 

Offline Rampage

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Talking about pay-for-work at HLP is more or less taboo. We are a community centered around the enjoyment of modding, so once a modder gets paid for his contribution here, what makes HLP unique will simply dissolve into another Kickstarter venture.  We do not want that...

R

 
I guess nobody's actually interested in the concerns I'm raising. I suppose it is much more fun and self-affirming to reply to someone who's slinging abuse at you for refusing to work for free for their enjoyment, even if nobody's actually said anything of the sort.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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I guess nobody's actually interested in the concerns I'm raising. I suppose it is much more fun and self-affirming to reply to someone who's slinging abuse at you for refusing to work for free for their enjoyment, even if nobody's actually said anything of the sort.

Well... that's one way to ignore everyone's completely valid points.

I'm betting you could care a less or that you'll turn it around and tell me I'm being stupid or something.. but whatever. The truth's the truth whether you want to believe it or not, so let me spell it out for you. I'm am currently NOT (N-O-T) working on FSU simply because of your posts and a few others. If you guys feel like you are so entitled to my time to be this rude about it, then meh. I've got other things I can work on.

So, if the MediaVPs take longer than expected to release and it's because I'm busy with other things, you all can thank guys like Phantom Hoover. Hopefully for the rest of you, the FSU team can get along fine without me for a bit.
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Offline Zacam

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To put some official tone to all this jaw-flapping and what have you:

It's been busy for a lot of folks. That's just in general. I forget who posted it now, but somebody had to go and spell out that they attended college, got, lost and got another job, moved, etc. What, like they were the ONLY busy ones in this entire forum? Cause frankly, aside from the moving part, I did exactly all of that myself. And Mjn and RGA have both had kids. We've had people leave, we've had a few prospective members show up, we've had promises of work that never materialized, etc. And at the end of the day, it's irrelevant.

This is a community project, but that doesn't mean that the community can -demand- what isn't possible nor is within their RIGHTS, because they don't have any. Other than the right to do it yourself if you're so inclined and be recognized for having accomplished it if you do.

That being said, yes, we are well aware that we are past due for a Release, and we very sincerely wish to address that and get one done.

But it's not going to be made any easier for us to do if people keep pissing off my team members by being self-entitled twits about the whole thing. Relax. Waiting is, and those that do, good things will happen.


(and if anybody can't relax, I'm a proficient at providing masseuse (massage) therapy with large hammers, including the type that grant time off for bad behaviour)

If you have any direct actual issues that you would like to raise that are not in the "I'm self entitled to you most make an update" variety, by all means feel free to prod me in PM. We enjoy and encourage creative and constructive feedback and information and we have a Mantis that is really more than useful when people actually report things on it.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 11:18:30 pm by Zacam »
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[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline iVoid

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I'm new to the community and I don't know much about its recent history, so if I'm missing something here or being unfair, please do tell me, but all this sounds pretty unfair and I feel the need to voice what's in my mind...

I suppose we could even pay the FSU guys for their efforts but don't you think then it would become just another work for them? A labour of love always has the best results. I thought this was a modding community and everyone here did it just for the fun... Otherwise, something's wrong. I don't think Phantom Hoover is being rude/ungrateful, insensitive maybe, but rude, no. I actually find most of his posts pretty reasonable and you've got to admit he raises some valid points. I don't know how the members of the community have been to the FSU team in the past but some of you seem to snap so easily when someone asks how things are going, it's like you have post-traumatic stress...

I like freespace and I think everything you as a community have accomplished is fantastic. I'd like freespace to get even better as much as everyone here, but if any of you feels like doing it is a waste of time, that would make me sad but I would not want you to continue doing it like it is some sacrifice for the community. I've always thought modding should be about fun more than anything else, but I'm pretty new to modding in general and maybe I just don't quite understand what really motivates the people here...

And call me dumb but I've got to say I visit these forums almost daily to keep a watch on updates, and I also had no idea that the thread I should have been looking at to see what was coming on the next VPs and how they are doing is "MediaVPs Changelog [A Heads-Up About How Mod Compatibility Will Be Affected]". Yes, it's got "changelog" in the title but the talk about mod compatibility did mislead me, and seeing someone with a post count that simply dwarfs mine being mislead the same way too says a lot. I think a better job could be done to keep the average VPs user informed, namely about the VPs current status and how to use what is completed but not yet officially released. Besides, if there is some miscommunication can you really blame anyone for posts like the ones here?

 

Offline Zacam

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iVoid: An excellent point can be made that we could be a little more up to speed on providing updates, even if those updates are nothing more than "nothing to currently report, still no eta's at this time" so I do see the point behind having some clarification as to what's being done (or not done) in general.

But the fact of the matter is that most people, while intending well enough, don't seem to be able to genuinely present that in a way that doesn't somehow end up raising some sort of hackles somehow. So, when I get to come into the situation of being told that people are getting pissed and/or when members tell me they under the impression of being attacked for trying to present what should already be an obvious condition to people that should already know what the score is, there is inevitably going to be a defensive element.

As has already been pointed out, the MediaVPs are indeed massive. And the last two releases have been plagued with issues right out of the gates of Release, so pardon me if I just wanted to make sure that we didn't continue that streak for a 3rd time running. We also have the consideration to make of there being mods that have gotten broken through their own interpretation of how to properly use the MediaVPs (that isn't technically proper in the slightest) and wanting to make sure we've made best possible effort to prevent that, which also means making sure that we can do initial beta-style testing before release, since we cannot play all the mods ourselves. At the very least, being able to head's up folks on any potential breakages sounds to me like a great idea.

As for "interim" releases, as this is a community project, anybody could have collected together any combination of currently Released individual works and made a bolt-on "2013_ShipsPack.vp" and we'd have heartily endorsed it. May even well have helped more positively motivated progress, but seeing as how most of our lack of progress has come more from the vast majority of us being busy with Real Life issues more than anything else, maybe not.

Also, we very well know that the MediaVPs and the FSU's task is never going to be one that is ever "done", period end of statement. We'd already staged exactly when and where our cutoff was going to happen and focus on getting that work done and for the most part, it was. It just took a fair bit longer than anybody expected because it really is amazing at just how fast time can fly when you are incredibly busy.

So yes, when Bob and Phantom decide that they want to break out with their commentary, it's not the gist of what they are saying that is making it through, but how they've decided to present what they are saying that makes it come across in an entitled fashion that causes for the situational stress levels to rise, as has been witnessed.

So, to re-iterate: A Release is indeed being planned, and we are going to be putting the pieces together. An exact date is not yet set, but I'm rather hopeful that we can have something within the next month or two, possibly three at the outside. _I_ will provide more updates to that timetable when they are available.
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¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline Mongoose

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In the meantime, one thing I do agree with is that we probably could be a bit clearer with how the already publicly-released individual models are labeled or presented.  That could be something as simple as changing the thread title, or maybe consolidating two of those stickied threads into one.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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The change log needs to remain separate from the assets sticky.
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