Author Topic: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)  (Read 44829 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chief1983

  • Still lacks a custom title
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ⬇️⬆️⬅️⬅️🅰➡️⬇️
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • Fate of the Galaxy
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
It's amazing how quickly Apple and other development communities are nixing Snow Leopard support, and it looks like without those extensions and SDK support, we're going to have a hard time supporting it much longer as well.
Fate of the Galaxy - Now Hiring!  Apply within | Diaspora | SCP Home | Collada Importer for PCS2
Karajorma's 'How to report bugs' | Mantis
#freespace | #scp-swc | #diaspora | #SCP | #hard-light on EsperNet

"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline jg18

  • A very happy zod
  • 210
  • can do more than spellcheck
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
It's amazing how quickly Apple and other development communities are nixing Snow Leopard support, and it looks like without those extensions and SDK support, we're going to have a hard time supporting it much longer as well.

And snow leopards are already endangered as it is... :(

* jg18 is typing this on a MacBook Pro running SL.

Hard to believe SCP has been making Tiger and Leopard builds for so long.


The deferred lighting and shadows does not require opengl 3 it runs on 2 I coded it that way especially because osx doesnt work. There might be 1 or 2 required extensions tho that might cause problems if they are missing.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if those extensions were missing from at least one version of OS X. :sigh: Is there any reasonable way to find out what they were (i.e., without doing a ton of work)?

Also, if Snow Leopard support is (slowly) on its way out, and since all later versions of OS X support OpenGL 3.2 Core profile, maybe the main rendering pipeline, along with deferred lighting and shadows, should (eventually) become OpenGL 3 anyway? Not that I really know that much about OpenGL... :nervous:

 

Offline Nemesis6

  • 28
  • Tongs
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
It would be lovely if someone could compile a 3.6.18 build with both shadows and deferred lighting. There is the 3.6.17 BP build, but it has quite a few quirks.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
How high does the -shadow_quality setting go? I looked through the thread but only the lower settings are discussed.

Edit: Nevermind, found it. The answer is 2. :)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 09:33:17 pm by rscaper1070 »
Did you hear that fellas? She says I have a Meritorious Unit.

 

Offline torc

  • 210
  • Diaspora SFX engineer
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Just a small suggestion: i found that having shadows in small ships like fighters is almost useless...
Having the possibility to choose what object you wanna affect would be great since it should have less performance impact and allows people to find shadows on ships where are really noticeable like capships and stations (and player ship obviously).

Just my 2 cents :)
indossare una divisa può avere un prezzo alto...ma a volte...è troppo alto!!! Bill Adama

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Just a small suggestion: i found that having shadows in small ships like fighters is almost useless...
Lies. I actually found those were the most noticeable, especially when you're flying in formation in a wing.

One thing that would be good is to disable shadow on ships/objects that are very far away. For example I noticed a massive slowdown in missions with needlessly large asteroid fields.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Cobra

  • 212
  • Snake on a Cain
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Obviously you need a better sound card. :P
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
The distances at which shadows are rendered are currently fixed. FSO uses a cascading shadow map render with three shadow maps, with distances of 400, 3000 and 20000 as cutoff points (As in, everything up to 400 units away from the camera gets rendered into the first map, everything up to 3000 in the second and so on).

What we do not want to do is introduce lots of special cases here. I think what would be worthwhile is to introduce commandline switches or mission spec fields to control the shadow cascades.

And yes, shadows on the player ship or cast by the player ship are the most noticeable ones, so they're not gonna go away.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Kobrar44

  • On Suspended Sentence
  • 29
  • Let me tilerape it for you!
    • Steam
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
One thing that would be good is to disable shadow on ships/objects that are very far away. For example I noticed a massive slowdown in missions with needlessly large asteroid fields.

I don't know much about performance, but asteroids lod 2/3 have like 80 faces or less. With 256 asteroid cap, that's about 20k or less faces total and each asteroid takes only a handful pixels on the shadowmap 3. Should they impact the performance this much?
Oh guys, use that [ url ][ img ][ /img ][ /url ] :/

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
I don't think it's about how much pixel they take on the map, it's about calculating those pixels in the first place.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Faces/vertices don't matter unless the engine uses shadow volumes (which I don't think it does). The number of screen pixels a single shadow takes should have no bearing on performance for either shadow maps or shadow volumes.

I'm actually sort of curious about the method of how shadows in FSO work, because my understanding of how shadow mapping is often implemented is that performance is independent of scene complexity. It should only depend on shadow texture size.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
so ... ahh.... what's the current gameplan regarding placing this into the main trunk?  :nervous:

Is this going into 3.7.2 or are you gonna be wild crazy and call it 3.8?  ;7

It almost deserves it.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Regarding the implementation details: FSO uses a technique called cascading shadow maps. This uses several, in our case three, shadow maps to make sure that texel density is highest the closer to the camera an object appears.

While shadow mapping is orders of magnitude faster than regular rendering, it's still a process with a runtime that increases with object count.

It should also be noted that the FSO render pipeline as currently implemented isn't very efficient when it comes to batching render calls, especially in a situation like this one, meaning that there's a few tricks here that we're missing right now.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

  • 212
  • Snoop Junkie
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Is this making its way into Trunk with 3.7.0 Final out now?
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem, but under Tiger Parents
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Deferred Lighting Open Beta 6 (17/11/12)
Not sure. I bet it makes its way beyond 3.7.0
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Full Projects:
Shattered Stars

Campaigns:
Lost in the Mist - Cyrene vs. Psamtik
FreeSpace: Reunited

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

Tools:
FSO TC/Game template

I've been under attack by Tiger Parents like Jennifer Pan...