Author Topic: GTM Hippocrates WIP  (Read 80880 times)

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Lose the pipes.  The Hippocrates is designed for sealable ship sections (compartmentalization); the unbroken, straight pipes lining the hull do not make any sense in this context.  And what if an asteroid hits those pipes?

The original Hippocrates looked rugged, a true "military hospital ship."  This thing looks like a death trap; like it's been turned inside out, innards where armor should be.  Greebling is not acceptable if it doesn't make any sense.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 11:37:18 pm by Gregster2k »

 

Offline Flaser

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I once again have to kindly disagree.

Looks like people once again can not distinguish between damage tolerance and damage endurance.
The Hippo is a damage tolerant design - all those easy to replace and non-essential support systems make it capable of taking a lot of damage.

If you heavily armored it, it would need a lot bigger engines, would have a lot less space for medical stuff and wouldn't be so effective as a mobile hospital.

As is, it *will* get hurt in a fight. However it will only be *hurt*, not *crippled*. Granted all that blown away superstructure will be hard on the eyes, but it has more than enough redundancy to still be operational...

getting rid of all the big and heavy support beams and girders that a heavy armor and a huge engine block would have required makes it possible to make the ship fast and cheap.

Just because the frame and superstructure of the ship is less armored doesn't mean, that the parts actually housing the patients aren't. In fact, that's where all the any real armor is on the ship and it's a lot thicker than what you find on some cruisers.

....

Bottom Line: Leave the ship as is. You can't please everyone, and so far many people liked this design.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 
The ship is very well done overall.  On review of the images I retract my "death trap" statement as non-constructive and premature. 

Flaser, I like your points there but you didn't address my main one.  This ship is supposed to have compartmentalized design - the ability to isolate sections at a moment's notice.  That's your "damage tolerance."  A single, long pipe running the entire length of the neck - even as a structural support of some kind - is not damage-tolerant design.  The slightest damage to any portion of the pipe could destroy the whole thing.  Any redundancy that the pipes may have had is negated by their close spacing - a direct hit to one pipe is likely to splash unto the others, especially if the attack is a bomb, missile, or asteroid impact.

One way to make them appear damage tolerant is to have the pipes repeatedly enter and exit the neck in distinct sections.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 12:36:50 am by Gregster2k »

 

Offline Droid803

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Well, the neck definitely has compartmentalized sections.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 
Well, the neck definitely has compartmentalized sections.
Yeah, I was just saying that the pipes lining it aren't divided into any sections at all (except the ones on the top).  If these pipes are power conduits, it'd make some sense.  But then there's the curvy ones on the forward scaffolding-like section.

I just have a pet peeve against exposed pipes in slow-moving spaceships.  Hell I have problems with it on Babylon 5 (although now I'm getting ridiculous, I never thought twice about Star Trek's transparent steel windows).  I am gonna miss the Hippo's windows, though.  Overall, great model, especially considering the program used.  BrotherBryon's SketchUp skills are fantastic.

and i really, really, really need to get some damn sleep
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 01:45:00 am by Gregster2k »

 

Offline castor

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Those pipes could be a transport system for passing medical items between the sections, or part of a waste processing system :)
Non critical, and as an external construct they can be fixed rapidly if broken (easy access, room to operate).

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Realism and aesthetics tend to be all too often mutually exclusive. Of course exposed pipes are never going to become a serious design element in real ships for obvious protection and repairability reasons, but they are excellent at providing functional looking detail to a ships surface. Extrusions and indentations will only get you so far in terms of perceived detail, and antennas and the like only work in specific areas. Pipes are a crucial all purpose middle ground that can make other simpler greebles look so much better. ;)

As this as a game, good aesthetics take a much higher priority than propper realism, and here pipes definitely looks much better than no pipes.
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Offline Hellstryker

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Realism and aesthetics tend to be all too often mutually exclusive. Of course exposed pipes are never going to become a serious design element in real ships for obvious protection and repairability reasons, but they are excellent at providing functional looking detail to a ships surface. Extrusions and indentations will only get you so far in terms of perceived detail, and antennas and the like only work in specific areas. Pipes are a crucial all purpose middle ground that can make other simpler greebles look so much better. ;)

As this as a game, good aesthetics take a much higher priority than propper realism, and here pipes definitely looks much better than no pipes.

It did my heart really good to hear someone say that.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Of course exposed pipes are never going to become a serious design element in real ships for obvious protection and repairability reasons
O RLY?

I'd say that maintenance and repairability is a major reason why they ARE accessible. :D

 

Offline Snail

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Thing is, no one is shooting tactical nukes and subluminal lasers at the international space station.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Hm... subluminal lasers. I'll have to remember that.

 

Offline Snail

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Hm... subluminal lasers. I'll have to remember that.
What else would you call them?

 

Offline Galemp

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Plasma Pulses?
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Offline Mongoose

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Thing is, no one is shooting tactical nukes and subluminal lasers at the international space station.
So far as you know.

>_>  <_<

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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If I were designing a real ship that might encounter hostile forces, I'd have all pipes and stuff behind the armour belt, in an internal 0 atmosphere, human accessible maintainance area, external to the life support areas. That way it's not going to rip the entire craft's life support areas apart if it fails (ie, think fuel/plasma line bursting inside the habitable areas vs outside), but it's also not going to be destroyed by weapons the armour would have protected against, and won't require full EV activities to repair.

Anyway, we're going a bit OT here, but I think it's safe to say pipe greebles like these are here to stay. ;)
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Offline Droid803

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Yeah.
Pipes cool = pipes stay.
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline Flaser

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If I were designing a real ship that might encounter hostile forces, I'd have all pipes and stuff behind the armour belt, in an internal 0 atmosphere, human accessible maintainance area, external to the life support areas. That way it's not going to rip the entire craft's life support areas apart if it fails (ie, think fuel/plasma line bursting inside the habitable areas vs outside), but it's also not going to be destroyed by weapons the armour would have protected against, and won't require full EV activities to repair.

Anyway, we're going a bit OT here, but I think it's safe to say pipe greebles like these are here to stay. ;)

In a "realistic" space-warship, a whole lot of the ship would be unpressurized when entering combat to preserve air in case a hit opens the compartment. It would also alleviate the "sucked into vacuum" problems. Granted each and every crew member would have to wear a minimal spacesuit (one designed for "surviving" vacuum, not EVA), but that seems no-brainer. (Strangely only Gundam and other animated shows ever make this sensible choice).

However we're way OFF TOPIC.

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/

On Topic:
The Pipes Are Cool.
The Pipes Stay.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline StarSlayer

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The Honorverse (Honor Harrington series by David Weber) also places its crews in skin suits (EVA suits) and depressurizes their warships before entering combat.  Course the Honor Harrington series is about as realistic a view of space combat as I've come across
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Offline BrotherBryon

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Wow, looks like I missed a good discussion over the weekend but thanks for all the feed back. Any way I've added some details to the connecting arm. I'm not entirely happy with them but would like a second opinion before scrapping them and starting over again. The ones of the front are a couple of storage tanks. The new detailing has pushed the polly count over 12,000 again. I'm also thinking of changing the piping on the neck by having each of the pipes terminating into one of the neck sections with an elbow, thoughts.


By brotherbryon at 2008-12-22
Holy Crap. SHIVANS! Tours

 

Offline Hellstryker

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Leave it as is.  :yes: