Author Topic: Zombie dogs in the lab  (Read 27425 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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AAARh!

I jsut made a lengthy reply and all of it was "eaten" by friggin Exploer! I hate that thing!
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Offline redsniper

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They should test new versions of IE on animals before they release it to people. ;)
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Offline karajorma

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You should have been using Mozilla then. :p
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by redsniper
They should test new versions of IE on animals before they release it to people. ;)
:lol:
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Offline TrashMan

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now THAT would really be torture!
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Er...Is 'The Register' even an reliable source?

A lot of informal language is used ('boffins', 'zombie dogs' [because they're not really zombies]) , the article has a very light tone to it ('Any reader wishing to participate in this historic moment is advised to wrap up warm and fully acquaint him or herself with the works of HP Lovecraft.'), and there's the footnote at the bottom of the page. The article should, IMHO, stay as neutral as possible, and less 'personal' because the writer obviously added some of his own touches to the story.

Does anyone know where else I can read about this? Apart from at news.com.au?

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Offline vyper

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The Register is generally a reliable source.
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Offline karajorma

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The Register generally takes a slight editorial spin when presenting news but is usually very reliable. There have been several cases where the Register has been proved right when everywhere else got things wrong (Code Red = the end of the internet, Microsofts UP&P = the end of the world etc. )

This is actually one of the few Reg stories I've seen that disappointed me by taking the editorialising too far. It's okay to make the odd joke but deliberately spinning a medical breakthrough to sound like some kind of bizarre Dr. Frankenstein experiment is taking things too far.

Regardless of the language used though I have no doubt that the story behind it was true. El Reg is generally very good about admitting it when they get things wrong.
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Offline Fenrir

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Yeah, the way they wrote the article really bugged me. It's like they're trying to downplay the signifigance of this. Even if it wasn't deliberate, the effect is the same.

 

Offline achtung

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Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I'm against the testing of life saving drugs on animals.
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I think we should use PETA members instead - then everybody can be happy.


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Offline Kosh

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Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Wouldn't it be more efficient to transplant the brain into a healthy body? And not just a regular body, but one with superhuman strength and reflexes, able to crush those who foolishly oppose it!



No, it wouldn't. The nervous system in any animal that has a brain (humans included) is extremely complex. There are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of connections between the brain and the rest of the body.


Plus you could end up with some severe psychological problems as a result of that.
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Well, looking at that article alone, (I haven't read any other The Register articles), I assumed that some technical details were ommited or simplified to perhaps make it more interesting/complicated to its target audience. ;p

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Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by Raa


You contradict yourself.
What makes an animal 'lower'? Because they're less cute? Because they're not fuzzy? Because they've not been domesticated?

How can you consider all life sacred, and then call some species 'lower' and say they are acceptable to submit to testings? :doubt:


so when you step on a cockroach, an ant, or kill a fly......... isn't that sacred life too?

 

Offline Stealth

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Originally posted by karajorma
These days only Jehovah's witnesses bat an eyelid at heart transplants.


Jehovah's Witnesses reject blood transfusions.  the transplant of muscles or organs, are left up to the conscience of the individual as far as i'm aware... i might research that though.

 

Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


so when you step on a cockroach, an ant, or kill a fly......... isn't that sacred life too?


Sacrilege can be fun too :p
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Offline Martinus

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[color=66ff00]The whole point of this is to prolong the life of a patient as long as possible thus increasing the survivability.

As Bob has stated once you drop the core body temperature below a certain level the body's functions tend to slow down. The brain accounts for a rather large chunk of the oxygen requirement of the body (hence it's got it's own pulmonary sub system) the brain also regulates most of the body's functions; if you try to put the brain into a 'standby' mode the rest of the body shuts down first in order to maximise the O2 and nutrients going to the brain. Blood vessels in the extremities narrow their diameter, as a result the blood and everything in it is redirected and a person loses their colour. When the brain enters this standby mode all of the higher brain functions are diminished or shut down entirely reducing the brain's energy and oxygen needs.

The body is a self regulating mechanism, it requires a certain temprature and chemical balance to be maintained. Temperature effects a number of chemical systems, notably enzymes which facilitate a vast array of chemical processes including respiration; reduce the body temp. and you reduce respiration. Respiaton in this case is not 'breathing' (a common misconception for some reason) it's the breakdown and conversion of nutrient sources (sugars, fats and protien) to form adenosine triose phosphate (ATP).

So on to the main reasoning behind the experiment; you've just had some kind of life threatening accident and you're not in a position to recieve treatment. In the time that's required to get you to a place where an operation can take place a medic will have to regulate your breathing, control blood leakage from wounds and constantly monitor your condition including temperature. Now as you may all be aware no workable, mass producable (i.e. cheap) substitute for blood has yet been discovered so the medic may require a significant volume of plasma to keep you alive between the scene of the accident and the operating theatre. This blood will have to have been screened and chemically altered to inhibit clotting, it will also have to be of the same type as your blood otherwise your immune system will see the new blood cells as foreign bodies and will attack (read up on antigens if you wish to know why).

Saline by comparison is cheap, plentiful and readily available, it can be quickly and cheaply sterilised, is compatible will everyone (no antigens) and does not require donors. You could build a relatively small, mobile unit that would cool and pump the saline. If you've got twenty guys stuck in the middle of a battlefield and you've got two medics and a limited blood supply you can imagine how this kind of process wold be useful.
[/color]

 
In the future, there will be one saline tank in every ambulance! :nod:

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Offline karajorma

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I can see this being useful in battlefield conditions but it could just as easily be used in civilian trauma cases for much the same reasons.

For instance suppose you have a long and risky operation to perform. It might be simpler to simply use this process to stop the heart and carry out the operation without the need to keep the patients body working throughout the entire operation.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2005, 04:11:37 pm by 340 »
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Offline Martinus

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Originally posted by karajorma
I can see this being useful in battlefield conditions but it could just as easily be used in civilian trauma cases for much the same reasons.

For instance suppose you have a long and risky operation to perform. It might be simpler to simply use this process to stop the heart and carry out the operation without the need to keep the patients body working throughout the entire operation.

[color=66ff00]Well I am being speculative in the technology's implementation and usage. Given most people's proximity to hospitals in the western world it would seem to me to be overkill. Also a considerable number of modern medical operations rely on the person's ECG (EKG), EEG and other measurable output from the body to identify how well the operation is proceeding. Operating on what would effectively be a cadaver would be more of a guessing game.

This is of course assuming the technology is viable for people.
[/color]

 

Offline TrashMan

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Originally posted by Raa


You contradict yourself.
What makes an animal 'lower'? Because they're less cute? Because they're not fuzzy? Because they've not been domesticated?

How can you consider all life sacred, and then call some species 'lower' and say they are acceptable to submit to testings? :doubt:


I used " " to indicate that I think it's crap.

I do consider all life sacred and I don't consider animals lower in any case. Hell, I don't hurt animals at all - I even let a few spiders in my apartment..and it works too.. it's bug-free without me resotring to any sprays or anything..they keep the bugs away...call it a symbiosis)
The only time when I make exceptions is parasytes..


In effect, there is no logical basis to call an animal lower than us humans are....
Name one reason why they are lower..

WE rule the Earth?
So did hte dinasours, and for far longer then us...Does that make us lower than them?

We build thing?
So do animals, alltough on a smaller and simpler scale..they don't need more anyway.

We have culture?
So do animals - the recent studies confirmed that.


We ARE different, but does that automaticly make us batter?
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