Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 589248 times)

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Limited yawing is what makes Elite flight model much more like flying a plane than a spacecraft. And it is annoying as ****. Instead of fighting the enemy, I am fighting the controls. For that reason alone, I prefer SC flight model over Elite.

As for general polish of Star Citizen flight model, it is much better than it was in the past. The days when your attitude spontaneously changed while merely strafing (lol!) due to unbalanced thruster responses are long gone. Right now its almost as polished as Elite, except faster and without the annoying yaw limit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FW1FegvX_c
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Limited yawing is what makes Elite flight model much more like flying a plane than a spacecraft.

It doesn't, stop pretending. That's 1 factor out of 30, but I guess you wouldn't know that if you never actually tried any plane sims.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 04:52:53 pm by FrikgFeek »
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Kszyhu

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Did they manage to fix the massless ship issue (quite loud, relevant part starts at 0:36)?

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Limited yawing is what makes Elite flight model much more like flying a plane than a spacecraft. And it is annoying as ****. Instead of fighting the enemy, I am fighting the controls. For that reason alone, I prefer SC flight model over Elite.

As for general polish of Star Citizen flight model, it is much better than it was in the past. The days when your attitude spontaneously changed while merely strafing (lol!) due to unbalanced thruster responses are long gone. Right now its almost as polished as Elite, except faster and without the annoying yaw limit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FW1FegvX_c

I felt that way when I started playing E:D too, but the more I played it the more I enjoyed the flight model. What really drives me nuts about E:D is just about everything except the flight model, but you're going to have trouble convincing me that SC is better. The only argument I can think of is that with SC there is no illusion of completeness.

And good god almighty, those sound effects are terrible.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Did they manage to fix the massless ship issue (quite loud, relevant part starts at 0:36)?

if you look closely at the chat window you'll notice that our intrepid recorder's username is 'rommel88mm' and so this 'asshole glaive' is in fact a heroic antifascist crusader
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FW1FegvX_c
Multiple things that bug me about this, the constant random things to take away the player's awareness, blur, desaturation, hdr brightness adjustment. How would this still be a thing 900 years from now anyway. Even that aside, it just seems like a ****ty idea from a gameplay perspective.
The other thing is that you barely get to see what the **** you are shooting at, so many times during that video he's shooting at this far away hud dot, whenever the ship comes back into view its only for a brief moment and it takes up like 30% of the area that isn't the cockpit at most. It just seems like frustrating gameplay to me.
And lastely, the sound effects are absolutely ****ing awful. Holy **** that's so bad.

The only thing it has going for it, that visually, it looks pretty nice. But hey, so does E:D.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Kszyhu

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
if you look closely at the chat window you'll notice that our intrepid recorder's username is 'rommel88mm' and so this 'asshole glaive' is in fact a heroic antifascist crusader

Well, you can be an asshole and still fight fascism (as documented in The Dirty Dozen).

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
You know, between this and Trump...
Oh my God, yes! On HLP, we see the same fanatics defending Chris Roberts against all reason like the Trump supporters worshiping Trump and his asshatery! It's hilarious terrifying WOW!

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

Thanks, maslo, for this video that perfectly demonstrates the fatal absence of skill and tension in Star Citizen's combat.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Was that a specific test build meant to last five minutes or does it typically take that long to shoot up a single enemy? 

Its one thing if you have an extended dogfight because you're both skilled pilots and neither can line up a shot but seriously five minutes of pumping primaries into a target to kill them is bad game design.  I can kill a battleship with 203mm cruiser AP in less time.
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Was that a specific test build meant to last five minutes or does it typically take that long to shoot up a single enemy? 

Its one thing if you have an extended dogfight because you're both skilled pilots and neither can line up a shot but seriously five minutes of pumping primaries into a target to kill them is bad game design.  I can kill a battleship with 203mm cruiser AP in less time.


 :confused:

e:d has held together on a basic physics and game feel level since its earliest prototypes

Virtually all spacesims bar a few exceptions don't use detailed physics and I find SC's attempt to use newtonian physics in a game that aspires to have a wide appeal (because spacesims were anything but niche at the time) to be outright silly, if I wanted something realistic I'd be playing Orbiter or DCS or whatever, for all their faults the people who made E: D at least understand that.

Limited yawing is what makes Elite flight model much more like flying a plane than a spacecraft.

It doesn't, stop pretending. That's 1 factor out of 30, but I guess you wouldn't know that if you never actually tried any plane sims.

Even I can tell that the flight model apart from limiting yaw is very similar in concept to the windows X-wing games where you had to always find a compromise between speed and manouverability during dogfights, when people told me it was like a plane I thought they meant like those demos of flightsims I got from the PCgamer CDs when I was a kid.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 12:18:21 pm by Det. Bullock »
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Was that a specific test build meant to last five minutes or does it typically take that long to shoot up a single enemy? 

Its one thing if you have an extended dogfight because you're both skilled pilots and neither can line up a shot but seriously five minutes of pumping primaries into a target to kill them is bad game design.  I can kill a battleship with 203mm cruiser AP in less time.


 :confused:
Starslayer meant, but did not mention, in World of Warships. Which is a significantly slower game, and taking down the HP pool of a heavily armored battleship with 203mm guns takes a while. But still somehow takes less time than that star citizen dogfight.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It's amazing how SC is so bad at communicating game state that you don't even realise the fight is drawing to a close until the opposing ship abruptly evaporates.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Was that a specific test build meant to last five minutes or does it typically take that long to shoot up a single enemy? 

Its one thing if you have an extended dogfight because you're both skilled pilots and neither can line up a shot but seriously five minutes of pumping primaries into a target to kill them is bad game design.  I can kill a battleship with 203mm cruiser AP in less time.

Doesnt typically take that long in my experience. Anyway, longer time to kill is a good thing in a game like SC, where consequences of losing a ship are supposed to matter and dogfights are supposed to have significant tactical depth to them. You cant have that with an simplistic shooter where time to kill is like 1 minute, that would be bad game design.

Also, there is a bug in shield recharging making them recharge much faster than intended, which may or may not have something to do with TTK in this video..

Anyway, the flight model itself looks really sweet, which was what I wanted to demonstrate with the video. It already captures that BSG-like newtonian quality that is missing from many lesser space sims. So I remain hopeful..  :yes:
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Long TTK (in the sense of being able to tank a lot of damage) is fine for medium and large (multi-crew) ships but really doesn't work well for fast-paced dogfights. I'd hope that one of the benefits of flying a fighter instead of a big expensive ship is that the consequences of losing it in a fight are much lower, so you can afford to be more aggressive.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
5 minutes is still excessive. Freespace time to kill when you're unloading with everything you've got is like 1-5s depending on what you're shooting at, that's relatively fast. 20s is already long enough to be impactful and anything over 30s is just tedious for fighters.

This isn't dogfight time we're talking about, you can have long dogfights if the fighters evade each other but most of that video was 1 fighter shooting at another with little pause.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
There was lots of evading. If the other fighter wasnt maneuvering, then the fight would indeed be over in 15 seconds of sustained fire at most. It is the evading maneuvers that prolonged the fight to 5 minutes (and also the crappy aiming, lol).

30 seconds time to kill is maybe fine for generic cannon fodder but for more important dogfights it is way too low. Its like that mission in FS where you have to kill hordes of Anubii and then a Vasudan ace. It takes much longer to take down the ace than an Anubis, I dont think it would be interesting if it was over in less than 30 seconds.. and thats the style of combat SC should go for, IMHO
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 03:07:53 pm by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I wonder what it would take for the cult to lose faith. Nothing short of a statement from CR himself, I suppose.

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
That's not really the problem, the problem is all that simulative flight model gobbedlygook, why make your pilot pass out from too many Gs?
That's completely retarded in this kind of game and this kind of universe and really awful when you play the game as any dogfight becomes a blurry mess even with the "safety whatever" activated.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Kszyhu

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah, CIG should throw out the entire concept of g-induced black outs, which, if rumours I've seen are true, will be experienced by the pilot, but not by passengers.