[CT27]

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=88865.0

Inspired by Goober's comment in the above thread, I finally decided to make a separate thread on this issue.


Which would have been worse for the universe, a GTI victory or an NTF victory?  Which would have been 'less worse'?

[Vrets]

Oh, but the NTF did win.

Bosch activated the subspace portal, with the result that the GTVA discovered, studied, and acquired the technology behind its construction. At the end of the FreeSpace 2 story, we learn that the GTVA will apply the Knossos technology to restore the link to Earth, thereby literally "restoring the lost grandeur of Earth".

[procdrone]

Actually, NTF was never meant to win. They were just a part of Bosh plan, he didn't even planned on conquering whole of civilized space. He had other objectives.

[Deepstar]

I think a NTF victory would be less worse, because the NTF were not interested in extinction of the Vasudans. All they want was, that the human race get back its independence  from the aliens. A NTF victory had only affected Regulus, Sirius and Polaris, which would be then  a Vasudan-free zone without any GTVA authority.
The NTF was not interested to start a full scale war against the GTVA to destroy the vasudan culture.


Because the GTI want to enslave the Vasudans to win the Terran Vasudan War finally... i think that this would be worse.
I think, that the Humans would not be able to survive against the shivans in 2367 without Vasudan ressources, technologies and know-how.

[NGTM-1R]

I think a NTF victory would be less worse, because the NTF were not interested in extinction of the Vasudans.

Bosch's message resonated with many people, largely because his pro-Terran ideology, and eventually the actions and attitudes of the NTF as a whole, were explicitly anti-Vasudan.

If anything, the GTI's victory holds out more hope for the Vasudans. In the original Silent Threat, you know, the actually canon one, there is nothing explicitly anti-Vasudan about the GTI Rebellion, and indeed they continue to take actions calculated to preserve the Terran-Vausdan alliance despite the fact if the alliance had been in rockier shape it might have helped them.

GTI appears to be in it for the power; power requires the living. The NTF is in it for the ideology, and their ideology requires the death of Vasudans. Do you suppose they were attacking refugee conveys of no military value in the first mission of FS2 for giggles? Do you suppose those Vasudans fled their homes because they thought the NTF would be nice to them?

[headdie]

Remember with the NTF there are 2 objective sets.

* For the NTF Ideology, which is what I believe drove the masses, the objective was a shining beacon of GTA level power based in Polaris, in this ideology there was no room for the Vasudans and the NTF is encouraged to exterminate all Vasudans whenever possible.

*For Bosch, the leader of the NTF victory would entail an attempt at contact with the Shivans which has completely unknown implications and relies on the possibility of not only a meaningful exchange between Terrans and Shivans but also that a state of co-operation can be achieved... a tall order with the information at hand.

Also remember that though Bosch admits himself in the monologues that he has creating a monster, I get the impression that it is a monster he is not in full control of due to the NTF's massive momentum.  I believe that as soon as he tries a course of action outside of the expected realm the monster would turn on him which is why only a hand full of people know the details of the shivan plan, not only to protect it from the alliance but also to protect him from the NTF.


With the GTI under the original FS:ST I dont get the impression that the Vasudans were more of a side element, the objective was Power and securing the Terran block, as for ST:R remember anything that deviates from FS:ST is only canon for ST:R and campaigns which explicitly accept it as canon

[Gee1337]

I gotta be honest... I thought a GTI victory would have been "less worse" than an NTF one. In fact, a GTI victory might even have been better for the GTVA, as most of the technologies that they were experimenting with in the canon were effectively lost. If they hadn't been lost, would the GTVA have been better equipped to produce better beam weaponary and other weapons based on Shivan tech? I think they would have.

Also, the NTF were insanely destructive in comparison (in my opinion). My justification of this is that the Knossos would have eventually been found and activated one way or another and the Shivans would have returned, therefore making the events of FS2 inevitable bar the NTF factor. If the Trinity had not activated Knossos and triggered the second Shivan incursion, the GTVA might have had more time to create more warships or implement better technology. Could they in fact have built a second or even a third Colossus? Would there have been more destroyers with better armanents available? Also, if there hadn't been the inconvenient distraction of the NTF, could more resources have been deployed to Gamma Draconis to stop or delay the Shivans, which might have allowed more time to evacuate Capella and saved a lot more lives?


 

[Phantom Hoover]

Interesting question: what would have an NTF 'victory' entail? Remember: Bosch doesn't care about building a state, he cares about talking to the Shivans. Suppose that a negotiated settlement was made, as suggested in one of the failure briefs. How does he get himself and ETAK into the nebula now?

[headdie]

Interesting question: what would have an NTF 'victory' entail? Remember: Bosch doesn't care about building a state, he cares about talking to the Shivans. Suppose that a negotiated settlement was made, as suggested in one of the failure briefs. How does he get himself and ETAK into the nebula now?

An NTF victory would be impossible without the bulk of the NTF which is subscribed heavily into the public ideology we see in FS2. 

For me i get the impression that Bosch is only able to guide the NTF rather than control it, there is just too much momentum, by FS2 it would take generations to work the Vasudan targeted blood lust out of the system.  The NTF ideology is the sort that would attract those with similar leanings first building a core of people heavily entrenched into that way of thinking, trying to change direction you would need to dilute this core, distract it or render it unable to act.  this same core I think would be very anti Shivan Alliance as lets face it, they are the horrors in the night.

So initially a NTF victory would be the opening stages of FS2 on a much larger scale, followed by slowly hammering it into a workable government which in the mean time is slowly turned to the Idea of a Shivan alliance so that when they return or when the NTF is ready to launch a mission they can attempt communication.  By this point you are probably looking at A) drawn out war with the Vasudans, B) Vasudan extinction C) Vasudans driven from known space, possibly with a burning desire to kill the Terrans ala Great war on steroids.

[CT27]

It's been a long time since I played the original Silent Threat.  How is the 'original' GTI different from that in "Reborn"?

[NGTM-1R]

It's been a long time since I played the original Silent Threat.  How is the 'original' GTI different from that in "Reborn"?

They have basically no interest in the Vasudans at all, and get shut down much more quickly.

[Goober5000]

The original Silent Threat did a very poor job of fleshing out the GTI.  Their motives were vague -- even their objectives were vague.  The campaign did not adhere very well to the "show, don't tell" principle of game design.

[Vrets]

In the original Silent Threat, the GTI had no idea what they wanted. The captain of the GTD Hades was a good example of this.

Captain Phailenshire: "The Beta Aquilea Installation has blown up! We're going in!"

(enormous, cool super-destroyer jumps in, causing Vrets to momentarily wake up)

Captain Phailenshire: "Excellent. I'll be in my quarters thinking of what to do next. Let me know if we explode."