[Jadehawk]

Hey Folks 
I have been working the 3D model of the GVF Shu Mk V made from the Mk II PeterV and I did several years ago. I got the initial model converted to a POF file and was able to do some basic stuff such as adding gun, missile, system things you do in the POF editor. Before I post anything, I noticed in the POF editor, the model faces were not as smooth as before.  I didn't do anything to degrade this when I worked the model...unless I did unknowingly?

My question is, what is the optimal poly count for fighters? I can smooth this thing in Wings3D, but that would crease the total polys to close to 20,000 Polys. Is there a better way to smooth the model without increasing it over the current 5574 polys? The Shu Mk II has 5150 Polys.

Much thanks folks!

JADEHAWK

[Droid803]

FSO can deal with 20k poly fighters no problem, so as long as the polies serve a purpose.
Were smoothgroups/edgesplits lost/damaged, maybe redoing them would help?

[AdmiralRalwood]

The number of polies in LOD0 also won't matter if it's far enough away to downgrade to lower-poly LODs.

[Jadehawk]

OK, thanks a million fellas! Pics coming soon!

[JCDNWarrior]

Hey Folks 
I have been working the 3D model of the GVF Shu Mk V made from the Mk II PeterV and I did several years ago. I got the initial model converted to a POF file and was able to do some basic stuff such as adding gun, missile, system things you do in the POF editor. Before I post anything, I noticed in the POF editor, the model faces were not as smooth as before.  I didn't do anything to degrade this when I worked the model...unless I did unknowingly?

My question is, what is the optimal poly count for fighters? I can smooth this thing in Wings3D, but that would crease the total polys to close to 20,000 Polys. Is there a better way to smooth the model without increasing it over the current 5574 polys? The Shu Mk II has 5150 Polys.

Much thanks folks!

JADEHAWK

The Shu's a great model already so I'm looking forward to see those pics for sure, Jadehawk.

[Jadehawk]

Hey Folks! 

As promised...Introducing the GVF Shu Mk. V, same 6 gun format, same 4 missile tubes. Uprated Fusion reactor core, Uprated engines, faster speed and longer range.









still having some issues...I think it's too big? tried to global import from the original Shu Mk II and they are wayyyyy off. Or my Mk V scaled wrong somehow. Still checking

Comments?

All the Best,
Jadehawk

[Nyctaeus]

I'm not sure if I see any changes to the model itself here. It lost all materials and smoothing. To be honest, I'm not sure if any changes to the model are necessary to create Mark V. What about some new, cool texture and table changes? Maybe small rescaling? Current HTL Shu [marked as Mk. II as far as I remember] is uber cool and does not need any significant changes.

[Raven2001]

It seems to me that that model could use more work. As of now, it looks like it has lots of polies, but the mesh isn't really thought of. It also seems to have more polies than are warranted for the detail that it has.
My 2cents would be to re-work the mesh. You'd be surprised if how much mileage you can get from few polies. 5000 polies are more than enough for a fighter

[Galemp]

I agree. The unrefined meshsmooth seems to harm more than it helps, and there's no substantial differences from the baseline model.

As promised...Introducing the GVF Shu Mk. V, same 6 gun format, same 4 missile tubes. Uprated Fusion reactor core, Uprated engines, faster speed and longer range.

This really does sound like it's doable with a table edit and a reskin, and I know you're great at those, Jadehawk. Why not see what you can do with the existing POF?

[The Dagger]

I agree that redoing the mesh (a retopology as the sculpting guys say) would give you better result with less polys. It can be pretty fast too and a good exercice if you're trying to get better at modelling.

[Jadehawk]

Hi Guys,
First, a big thank you for the responses! As you know, this is my first serious attempt getting something done and out the door to the Freespace Community. My work flow is, I exported the .pof file as a .dae file, then in Blender, I converted it to a .3dmax (I think) file and then after I saved it, worked it in Wings3d. I reversed the process until I was back in PCS2 and that's where I am now.

The differences between this and the Mk II is I lengthened the cockpit area, the guns and the three fusion engines on the wings have been lengthened and widened as well.  the center fuselage has has some minor tweaks to refine the so called "Gills". I added a missile warhead in each missile tube so it looks loaded like some models have been shown.
You are correct there is not much of a difference when you just look at this Mk V. But I can say it's a bit longer as explained.

Correct again about the polys and I am not happy with it's current look. I am SLOWLY learning how to use Blender as I feel this would be better? Yes/no? I just happen to like using Wings3d as it's fast and I know how to use it.

I'm at work currently and will post a version of the Mk V that has NOT been smoothed in Wings3d which is just a few hundred polys more than the Shu MkII.

Thanks again folks, I'll need yours and anyone's help as I really want to get this completed so I can populate more and updated Vasuden space craft.

Maybe later on....an updated Ezechiel !

All the best,
Jadehawk

[Raven2001]

Why don't you just attempt an HTLization of the Shu Mk2? You already have a good design in the texture, so that would allow you to focus on learning the modelling part

[Jadehawk]

Ok, point taken...I'll HTL the GVF Shu Mk II. I went back to the beginning and brought in a fresh conversion to Wings 3d. I'll just refine some details and not go into modifying much and leave the overall size as it is. I hope PeterV does not mind my tinkering with his upgrading this model   I guess baby steps is in order so I can get the very first one done from start to finish. That way, I'll have the necessary know how under my belt.

I have worked and still am in the aviation business for almost 30 years now. I have worked on anything from light single engine airplanes up to the B2 bomber and I try to impart that experience into my designs and thought put in designing these 3D models for Freespace. The GVF Shu and the GTF Ezechiel are dear to me and these two are the reason for my wanting to do them myself.  Bear with me as I depart in my journey here working my first model from start to finish.

All the best,
Jadehawk

[Raven2001]

Don't fall into the trap of modeling on top of the original! You'll be modeling on top of a weak foundation! (because the current mesh is optimized for low poly renderers). Start from scratch, build a proper basemesh with correct topographical flow. It will make it so much easier to add details and whatnot later on

[Nyctaeus]

Current Shu has 5,6k polygons and it's pretty hi-poly, no matter the fact that PeterV modelled it years ago. Working on already existing models cause other issues. Geometry for example is triangulated, and despite the fact that you may detriangulate it in Blender, well... De-triangulation is stupid . It does not turn triangles into quads in proper way, and causes UV corruptions and other geometry errors. To work on existing model, you would have to clean out a lot of the areas manually, and working on triangles is a pain in the ass. Two times more selecting, instert faces going nuts sometimes etc...

As Raven2001 said, the best way to HTL a thing is making it from scratch with new, clear geometry. Other way is working directly on low-poly model, which require much less cleaning but I also don't recommend that. Old low poly models may have other errors which newbie modeller cannor fix.

[Raven2001]

Ah, I wasn't aware that there was an htl Shu already. EDIT: Just took a look at it. Yeah, it's hi-poly, but it could definitely do with an overhaul

[Jadehawk]

Ahh you guys!

So now to get the best out of all this, I should do a new one from scratch? Ok, so how do I go about this? bring it in and create a new one in Wings 3d over that? How do you measure to get the angels and all that? Or, just use Eyeball Mark 1 and do the best you can? This last idea seems the easiest way no? Just asking for guidance folks! If so, I hope the Wings3d works good on this or I'll have to check out the tutorials on Blender.

All the best,
Jadehawk.

[The Dagger]

A good way is to import the model and use it as a base. There are lots of tutorials on retopology in Blender if you want to get into it, this one for example: https://vimeo.com/14560538.
I believe it's also one of the best ways to start an upgraded model, importing the original and building your new one on top of it.
In general, tutorials will say you need to avoid non-manifold meshes and triangles, but although that's a good advice for animated characters, it is not really our case here. If you need more specific tips or help, just ask! 

[Raven2001]

Can't help you with either software, because I use Max.

[Jadehawk]

thanks guys! I'll do some thinking about how to approach this project. Might be easier to hold off until I get some more experience under my belt before tackling this one. Will think about it and you guys rock!

All the best,
Jadehawk