Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 588999 times)

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Offline Hades

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
What kind of game exactly is S42 going to be?
Whatever your imagination wants it to be.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
In my head it's a visual novel-style game where the actual majority of it lies in dialogue with your crewmates, who may end up becoming friends...or something more. Then aliens come and bite their heads off in front of you while you're in the mess or something.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
There's a very good reason that no one has done this before: generally speaking, trying to mash a bunch of disparate genres together into a cohesive whole is a really bad design idea

No, it is a bad design idea only if you do not have resources to pull it off. Which is usually the case, because it is ambitious. There were multiple games that have attempted to do what SC attempts to do in the past. They were almost all amateurish games done by a single guy or a small amateurish team. That is the main reason why they were boring and bland. You just cannot compare games like that to an AAA product. Instead of Derek Smart games done by a single guy, look at game such as SWG. That is what Star Citizen will likely resemble. Not a perfect game, but a solid and fun game. One that does indeed fill a hole in the market of current spacesim games.

I mean, we are on a forum for Freespace mods. So it is only natural that there is plenty of modders here, and as such people here see every game development through the lenses of a development of an amateurish game mod, where feature creep is an everpresent mortal danger and resources are scarce. But triple A game development is different, especially when it is as well funded as SC is. Feature creep and resources are not the limiting factor. If there is a limiting factor, it is time and attracting the right people.

Blending FPS and spaceflight mechanics is totally doable and it can be done well, too, with AAA quality. Thats what SC is about.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 05:12:02 am by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I mean, we are on a forum for Freespace mods. So it is only natural that there is plenty of modders here, and as such people here see every game development through the lenses of a development of an amateurish game mod, where feature creep is an everpresent mortal danger and resources are scarce. But triple A game development is different, especially when it is as well funded as SC is. Feature creep and resources are not the limiting factor. If there is a limiting factor, it is time and attracting the right people.

... Except people here have pointed out numerous games that were arguably destroyed by feature creep. And again, having resources is not the issue here, it's using these resources efficiently. I believe that with the resources it has accumulated, a game like SC can be a great, well put together game, without even having to throw out too many features. However, the way SC's development has gone so far casts serious doubts regarding their ability to deliver such a game.

It's not so much that it can't be done, it's that they can't do it.

Best case scenario : we get Freelancer 2.0, a nice game that leaves you wanting due to the obviously half-implemented features, but nonetheless enjoyable (and moddable).
Worst case scenario : the whole project collapses and we never get a finished product, only a bunch of playable modules and some nice concept art.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
In my head it's a visual novel-style game where the actual majority of it lies in dialogue with your crewmates, who may end up becoming friends...or something more. Then aliens come and bite their heads off in front of you while you're in the mess or something.

Chris Roberts bravely follows in the footsteps of Spoon combining VN and Space Sim.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It's not so much that it can't be done, it's that they can't do it.
Exactly. CIG has demonstrated time and time again ever since the kickstarter that they are utterly plagued by mismanagement, awful design/ gameplay decisions and more than a tendency to make promises they can't or refuse to keep. And it's only getting worst the more time passes, the more money they accumulate and the larger their teams and scope grows.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

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bigchunk1: ...

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Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
In my head it's a visual novel-style game where the actual majority of it lies in dialogue with your crewmates, who may end up becoming friends...or something more. Then aliens come and bite their heads off in front of you while you're in the mess or something.
So, you just want Muv Luv then?  :p

Chris Roberts bravely follows in the footsteps of Spoon combining VN and Space Sim.
I should charge royalities.

I mean, we are on a forum for Freespace mods. So it is only natural that there is plenty of modders here, and as such people here see every game development through the lenses of a development of an amateurish game mod, where feature creep is an everpresent mortal danger and resources are scarce. But triple A game development is different, especially when it is as well funded as SC is. Feature creep and resources are not the limiting factor. If there is a limiting factor, it is time and attracting the right people.
It's funny how proudly you tout your ignorance on the subject.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I have worked AAA development. Feature creep is a far bigger problem there, and they are much more strict about staying on scope and cutting features than any mod.

You are really ignorant.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If anything, CIG management is far more amateurish than pretty much every mod that ever released something playable with 0 funds.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Idk about that Matth, BWO did release a playable demo.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Thanks for proving my point.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Who really needs to combine FPS and Space game mechanics into a single game?
Boarding actions in space combat is like boarding actions in mid-air.

People are trying to combine "realistic" space combat with age of sail boarding actions. They're two incompatible ideas.


 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
They're trying to. The main idea is that the space game being viewed in the eyes of a person the player is controlling. Aside from flying a ship, you can explore a ship, fix things, shoot bad guys, and explore planets.
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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I'll say this for CR: he's a marketing genius. That's the only way I can explain people's blind faith in him.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If he was only making a combination of FPS and Space Sim he'd end up with a better version of SWBF2's space battles.
Thing is, games that combine vehicular and FPS combat usually heavily simplify the vehicle mechanics to make it more accessible to FPS fans. Plane and tank 'simulation' in Battlefield is hardly in-depth and most flight sim fans wouldn't play it for that. Have you ever really wanted to leave your ship in Freespace to do some on-rails turret shooting or first-person combat? Why even bother when flight mechanics are so fun?

Aside from the 'novelty' value of a space sim with FPS combat I see no reason to leave your spaceship if the flight mechanics are fun or no reason to get in one if they're awful. Problem with SC now is that all combat is awful and there's no real reason to play it.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It's necessary, to improve upon the space-combat superseding FPS mechanics, if FPS forms the core of the gameplay itself.

For the VR part, the users can experience what it's like to be inside the real cockpit of their ships in Freespace. They are able to see freely around themselves inside the cockpit. They will need to think about how to take down enemies while looking behind them, and react on the fly. This includes not only flying, but also doing some on-rails turret shooting or many other forms of first-person combat (e.g. repelling boarders or boarding other ships).

Someday, I'll outline these ideas in my game design for my project about this.

Any word on Derek Smart's plan to sue Star Citizen?
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Full Projects:
Shattered Stars

Campaigns:
Lost in the Mist - Cyrene vs. Psamtik
FreeSpace: Reunited

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

Tools:
FSO TC/Game template

I've been under attack by Tiger Parents like Jennifer Pan...

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I'll say this for CR: he's a marketing genius. That's the only way I can explain people's blind faith in him.
He isn't though.  Managing customer expectations is an important part of marketing, and CIG have completely failed to do that.

Any word on Derek Smart's plan to sue Star Citizen?
Nothing but hot air, just like CIG's plan to sue The Escapist.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I have worked AAA development. Feature creep is a far bigger problem there, and they are much more strict about staying on scope and cutting features than any mod.

Because they are being pressured by the publisher or lack of money to release a half baked game as soon as possible. And thats one reason why there is so little advances in AAA gameplay and modern AAA games are mostly rehashed clones of a genre archetype with better graphics. Id rather have SC to try to be more than that, and even fail than end up like that.

On the other hand, Star Citizen has no such pressure and thus it can take its time to really blossom without cutting too many features and actually do things right. Even if it means it will take 5 years instead of 2 and cost over $100 million instead of $20 million. As I said, people did not pledge for Star Citizen to be yet another space sim like all the other such games. They pledged for this game to push certain boundaries.

Besides, its not like Star Citizen ignores the dangers of feature creep. It is why stretch goals ended at $65 million and for example procedural planets were not included in initial release. Star Citizen as currently envisioned is ambitious but doable. It just cannot be rushed.

2016 is going to be a big year for SC. With the release of 2.0 there are no longer separate modules and the basic engine is almost done, not the focus will be on adding content and features on top of it and bug fixing. You just wait..  :yes:
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
HOLY ****, THEY'RE ALMOST DONE ON THE BASIC ENGINE AFTER 4 YEARS?! Obviously we're all idiots for doubting this project!
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Because they are being pressured by the publisher or lack of money to release a half baked game as soon as possible. And thats one reason why there is so little advances in AAA gameplay and modern AAA games are mostly rehashed clones of a genre archetype with better graphics. Id rather have SC to try to be more than that, and even fail than end up like that.
Ah yes, we must have missed Bungie having a small budget. Surely that is the only cause for any problems. Battuta doesnt know jack****, you clearly know better. Your ignorance is almost insulting now.

You just need more time and money, that will surely produce excellent games! Just wait everyone! Starcitizen will be amazing if we just wait another 4 years with another 90 million.

Quote
On the other hand, Star Citizen has no such pressure and thus it can take its time to really blossom without cutting too many features and actually do things right. Even if it means it will take 5 years instead of 2 and cost over $100 million instead of $20 million. As I said, people did not pledge for Star Citizen to be yet another space sim like all the other such games. They pledged for this game to push certain boundaries.
That's not what I pledged for at all. But its nice to see you speak for everyone with your grand delusions.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them