Author Topic: Enigma 2666 *work in progress*  (Read 35863 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
2 Updates:

First the Supply Depot gets an textur upgrade and match now with the Starpost


Second: The Scimitar gets again an update to Kevins Bumpmap:

Perhaps you love the pig afterall flying it in Enigma 2666 :) Take out an Ralari with Torpedos. More interessting than simply fire a few times on it in the original Game :)
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
What? The Scimitar (which looks good btw, you should just add a simple spec map for the cockpit, that would look awesome) is carrying torpedoes?? Is that canonical? I think that's a bit weird since torpedoes are quite big...

The depot also looks much better, well done!

And one question to you:
Are you planning to release either your ships or your whole mod soon?
If not I think we should exchange some PMs about a cooperation since I could use one or two of your models for my Kilrathi mod. I could offer you some HUD elements or a bit of 2D work instead maybe. Just send me a PM.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
I think I need quite some time longer. And of course, send you already a pm.

For the release for the prologue just a few ships and K'titrakh Mang are missing. But for Saga Darkest Dawn I need some modders who help me to convert a lot of ships to the new style. I was thinking there much more wc1+2 ships perhaps are in Saga but only around 6-7 are there :(

PS: Yes its not canonical. But I make the mod like the way I think its better. So, all capitalships what are bigger then a Corvette needs torpedos to destroy. You can destroy them without torpedos too, but it takes a fighterwing of more then 4 ships to destroy it. A single fighter cannot take out a capitalship without torpedos.

So I give the Scimitar in some classic missions and for the Ghorah Khar defence force 1 torpedo. The Raptor has its part as a bomber. It can carry 3 Torpedos (before 4 but i changed that) The heavy fighter in the WC1 timeline is now the Cutlass. For example the Rapier destroy the Starpost in Venice without torpedos because theyr shields are down. Or another wing already damaged it.

PPS: As you may know.. in Wing Commander 2 the Epee can carry in a few missions even one torpedo ;)
And from the size:
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 02:57:14 am by Deathsnake »
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
Ok, the size is an argument, the Epee IS small after all.
Maybe those torpedos are upgraded Dart dumbfire missiles, so those are actually not the heavy torpedoes carried by bombers but smaller ones. Although it is not canonical I could live with that explanation.

I also thought about making capships even harder to destroy for fighters (wc2 style, I would make the shield regeneration strong enough so fighter weapons can't punch through.) but I'll leave it Saga style for now. Otherwise I would have to rebalance a lot of things and I already got enough to do. :D
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
TBH, I wouldn't mind seeing a "classic" WC1 approach to older capships (WC1 ones and older). Fly up to it and attack them with guns. As for torpedoes on older fighters, I think that they should be available as an option, replacing some missiles (IIRC, that's how it was on Epee. One torpedo at the cost of most of it's missiles).

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
Yes, for example the Scimitar has 2 Dumbfire and 3 HS. When they carry a torpedo we cut the missile down to 2 HS.
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
I would even cut it down to one HS missile I think.
So the Scimitar has a loadout similar to the Hornet but has torpedoes instead of the dumbire missiles.
That way the pilot who carries torpedos really notices what firepower against fighters is lost. That's because the HS are the most valuable weapons against fighters.
So everything is about the decsisions: taking torpedoes with you and playing "light bomber" or attacking fighters. I think I like tha multi-role approach to the Scimitar.

Btw: Are those two torpedoes sufficient to destroy a cruiser?
(I hope not, I would expect that you need approximately 4 torpedoes for a cruiser. And of course you would aim for the shield generators or something so after the torpedoes are through you could take down the rest of its hull with guns. Just an idea.)
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
The Ralari, Ralatha, Supply Depot needs one torpedo, the Fralthi, Fralthra two and the Hhi'fra and K'titrakh Mang 3. Remember that you fly a lot of missions alone without a wingman. For the missions with a wingman to destroy a cruiser or destroyer I have a few suprises left ;) Let me say this: a Battlegroup are much more then just a single capship with fighter escort ^^ What I testet in two missions with a Sabre or Broadsword. You need to ajust between shield and laser energy. If you make this not, you may not survive long enough for just a single torpedo attack. In the Broadsword without afterburners more then with the Sabre :)
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
Ah, ok. Then I'm really curious how that all will work out in your campaign, it sure sounds unconventional. :)
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
When you play Wing Commander 2 what was the best as a pilot? Look torpedos on enemy capships :) And more fun if you have a Broadsword or an Crossbow ^^

*god damit! Another run and the flak hits your bomber and no afterburner* :D
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
I admit that I didn't like those missions all that much, I'm more the fighter vs. fighter type of pilot. Flying heavy fighters such as the Raptor or Thunderbolt is my favourite thing to do.
But I know there are quite some pilots who really loved what you just described :)
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
Yes, yes I'm insane :D
But I want that the Gettysburg is not just another heavy cruiser. Its an Battlecruiser! I put another tripple turret on the underside. Now its enough. In this scene the Getty breakfast two Fralthi-class cruiser




PS: Sleeper modified the Drakhri MK2 textures with the guide from Kevin.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 04:19:46 pm by Deathsnake »
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
So how many turrets of which types does this ship have now?
I mean, obviously its weak point is that bomber squadrons will kill it quite quickly, but its firepower against enemy capships is huge!
It fits nicely to the descriptions of "Action Stations" about those battleships that were built before the Kilrathi war.

Nice work, and the Drakhri looks good as well.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
Is Jazz not saying in Secret Mission 2 Crusade that the Austin (Gettysburg-class) is a newer ship than the claw? I know that he say that its modern then the Claw. Anyway...its armament is to destroy enemy capships.

Here the Data:

5 x 3 Heavy Neutron Gun Turrets (later Heavy Anti Mater)
8 Laser Turrets
1 IR Missilelauncher
1 Capshiplauncher

36 fighter (12 Hornet, Scimitar, Rapier) later (Ferret, Epee, Rapier)
2 Marineshuttle Spartan Class
3 Shuttles

850m l , 450m w, 250m h
Tons: About 69000t

I first want a full fighterwing of about 100. But then I changed it. Its focus on a classic Battleship design with a short hangar. But more fighters then a Exeter (18) and size between the Bengal and the Confederation.

PS: Sleeper make some changes on the WC1 Kilrathi fighters. See the Dralthi MK1 and MK2 decals. I changed the size of the Jalthi, Krant and Gratha again:

The Jalthi was then to wide on the Starpost. But I don't try the upper Launchtubes:

Now it worked :)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 12:26:32 am by Deathsnake »
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: NEW: Enigma 2666 *work again in progress*
Looks good, though I think that Gettysburg could use better textures.

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: Enigma 2666 *work in progress*
Update:

Startet to take the project even with the old models into Saga Darkest Dawn. Using the Mod-Option you can see only the ships from this Project.

Intro - Cutscene 1 - and the first Mission are done.

Pics follow first after we get the last models for this project. This are the Tolmacs, Ralari, Supply Depot Terran and K'titrakh Mang. While using the old models until we have all! transfer into final I used for Enigma the old Dukara and Cybots Version of the Pelileu. Each of them replace in the storyline troop transport Clydesdales and Dorkathis. These two models are using as tankers. Dorkir as Recon-ships (Kilrathi Versions of the Prowler) Even using the Prologue Versions of the Prowler and the Spartan-class.

Kevin help us with the Tolmacs, Ralari, Supply Depot Terran and the Pelileu. I still hope Adam Wood helps us with the K'titrakh Mang (near a month with no responce :/ ) What is still to do? We have a few problems texturing the Drakhri. Jalkehi are in works by Sleeper. Need some turrets still on the Hhi'fra-class dreadnaught and prologue turrets on the Confederation and Gilgamesh Class. Perhaps someone can build a prologue-Kilrathi-Version of the Turretmine.

Tryd in the last time some missions with mines. But not really happy how it looks :/ We need in such a mission more then 100 objects. Otherwise you even can fly a Behemoth save in a field...

And here are the Prologue-Version of the Dukara:

Prince Thrakhaths Bloodfang:

Here in formating with two Dralthi MK2
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: Enigma 2666 *work in progress*
I don't understand why the Gettysburg should have that much fighters. That's almost a small carrier.
I would limit its fighter complement to 16 (+some unassembled replacements ):

8 Hornets   (later Ferret)
4 Scimitars  (later Epee)
4 Rapiers (later Rapier)

no marine drop ships, that doesn't make any sense for a battleship. It has its fleet for that. But there should be at least 2 shuttles ready and another two spare ones.

I like it that it isn't a jack-of-all-trades but specialised against capships. Fighter cover by at least a small escort carrier is needed of course.

Btw: Being newer than the Claw means not much, the Bengal is also a pre-war design IIRC the first ship was built 2619. And while the Austin is indeed newer than the Claw (the whole Gettysburg class is rather new) it fits the same role as the battleships of the pre-war era. That's what I meant to say. Also it looks similar to the Bengal carrier in many ways, which is the reason I assume that the class was actually planned for a longer time. It fits nicely.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: Enigma 2666 *work in progress*
Btw: Being newer than the Claw means not much, the Bengal is also a pre-war design IIRC the first ship was built 2619. And while the Austin is indeed newer than the Claw (the whole Gettysburg class is rather new) it fits the same role as the battleships of the pre-war era. That's what I meant to say. Also it looks similar to the Bengal carrier in many ways, which is the reason I assume that the class was actually planned for a longer time. It fits nicely.

You mean adding the Storyline to the movie. Nope! I take the Claw Marks as a Source and not the ***** Movie!
From the Claw Marks:

Pride of the Fleet

The TCS Tiger's Claw

2642: The Confederation military command, determining that a need exists for a heavy space carrier,
authorizes design of the Bengal-class carrier line. Trojan Four Spaceyards wins the assignment to build the
new line of carriers.

2644: The newly-launched TCS Tiger's Claw, on its shakedown cruise, carrying a minimal spacecrew and
an under-experienced command, finds itself in the path of a surprise Kilrathi invasion force. The ship's
unexpected presence along the Kilrathi flight plan, clever tactics on the part of the command crew, and
performance above and beyond the call of duty by the spacecrews rout the superior Kilrathi force. Shortly
thereafter, Tiger's Claw is given permanent assignment in Vega Sector.

2645: The second Bengal-class space carrier, the Kipling, is launched. Owing to design modifications, the
Kipling and all subsequent Bengals are 10 meters shorter and several tonnes less massive than the Tiger's
Claw, making the Tiger's Claw the biggest space carrier in its class.

2649: Tiger's Claw performs a delaying action to allow Confederation transports carrying ground troops to
retreat out of Kilrathi-occupied space. The engagement, known as Custer's Carnival, concludes with Tiger's
Claw seriously damaged but able to return to port. The carrier is in spacedock undergoing repairs and
refitting until early '50.

Thats the story of the Claw. And Bossmann died in the Firrekan System by 2556. The movie damaged the storyline with the Claw, the fighters, "Pilger Blair", Bossmanns dead and the Novel Freedom Flight. For me Wing Commander are Wing 1-4, Prophecy, Secret Ops, Privateer, Armada and Academy. Adding the Novels from Forstchen. Thats it.

And in Secret Missions - Crusade Jazz talking about that the Austin is bigger, modern and better then the Claw. So thats the reason why I changed the Gettysburg to 850 m from 550m. 16 fighter on a ship that is nealy the tripple time of an Exeter, that have 18 fighters?

Size from the three ships:
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:06:24 am by Deathsnake »
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack

 

Offline Aginor

  • Spelljammer
  • 210
Re: Enigma 2666 *work in progress*
I accept your way of thinking and your sources, I also prefer not to include the movie into my considerations when possible, in order to stay sane. Although I don't dislike the movie as much as others.

I always thought that the Exeter has too many fighters. It is a destroyer, why should it have four wings of fighters aboard?
Also the Gettysburg obviously needs HUGE reactors, which explains why it doesn't carry many fighters. It is not a carrier so having three full squadrons aboard sounds strange for me. Most of the big space will be used by reactors for the very large turrets.
I agree that it is backed up by the Exeter though, so you might be safe. Maybe I just like the thought that a battleship is a battleship and a carrier is a carrier. They should need each other or one of them would be pointless.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Deathsnake

  • 28
  • Again there
    • German Wing Commander Site
Re: Enigma 2666 *work in progress*
Well, the Gettysburg is in that way the predecessor for the Confederation Class. A huge Battleship. In that case the Confederation is only 100m bigger than the Gettysburg and carry 120 fighter. And then the Vesuvius with 14 AMG and 400 fighters with only 500m larger (and twice the width) I think I go even with 36 fighterwings less then it could be carry. An escort carrier of the Wake-class carry 45 fighters and its way shorter (around 550m)

But your right. The huge Heavy Neutron Gun Turrets or later Heavy Anti Mater turrets needs a lot of energy. Why I placed some Marines in? Like the Midway class some bigger ships has a short military force on board. Like todays navy some frigates even carry around 100 soldiers with it. Here the ships carry 200 soliders.
Star Citizen Garage No. 250:

AEGIS DYNAMICS: Sabre, Starfarer Gemini
ROBERTS SPACE INDUSTRIES Polaris
ANVIL AEROSPACE Carrack