[potterman28wxcv]

I saw this kind of effect has been added to the game : http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/thumb/RScreen0134.jpg/800px-RScreen0134.jpg

(Shadows whenever you're looking at star, and some vessels stand on the light path)

In a nebula, it is physically possible to see such shadow, since you have many particles between you and the vessel. In the screenshots i've linked, if the atmosphere is dusty, it would be possible as well.

But in space, where there is nothing but void, I find it disturbing to see vessel's shadows.. Whenever I see that, I have the feeling to be surrounded by dust, while I know that there is no dust around me.

What's also disturbing is that when you're not looking at the star anymore, you don't see the shadows. While you would be supposed to see the shadows if it was dusty.

Anybody feeling like me for missions that are not in nebulae ? So far, I've integrated shockwaves and sound in space in the lore, but I still have some trouble for this one 

[Luis Dias]

Yes, this was long debated when it was shown by Valathil to the community and the pervading consensus at the time was "Rule of Cool": it's awesome, therefore it's included.

But yes, physically speaking you are absolutely right.

[Phantom Hoover]

Honestly I find it very annoying and distracting, but there's an option to turn it off so I don't care that much.

[Flipside]

Of course, physically speaking, there should also be no sound, and being inside a nebula wouldn't be nearly as 'cloudy' as it is anyway (Nebulae average between 100-15000 particles per cm³, transparent air is around 10¹⁹), but as was said, it's rule of cool and there's an option to turn it off

[potterman28wxcv]

Of course, physically speaking, there should also be no sound, and being inside a nebula wouldn't be nearly as 'cloudy' as it is anyway (Nebulae average between 100-15000 particles per cm³, transparent air is around 10¹⁹), but as was said, it's rule of cool and there's an option to turn it off

For the sound in space, I did read a post once that said that there could be speakers inside to ship to simulate shooting sounds, so that the pilots are more aware of what's going on around them.

Well, I didn't know there was an option to turn it off ; thanks

[niffiwan]

I've found it super useful in one situation - when flying towards the sun with the crazy maximum power whiteout I can actually still see the ships I'm shooting at by the shadows they cast! Ini the event that the GTVA can't install better sunblock windscreens I'll take this as a 2nd option any day

[Aesaar]

For the sound in space, I did read a post once that said that there could be speakers inside to ship to simulate shooting sounds, so that the pilots are more aware of what's going on around them.

Sounds like a Chris Roberts thing.  Dumb justification for something that doesn't need an explanation in the first place.

[Herra Tohtori]

There are ways through which sounds can be perceived from events that occur across a vacuum of space. I can think of at least three, out of which one is most likely and two are sort of outliers, but it's definitely possible.


Sure, the classical definition of sound as mechanical wave motion traveling through a medium doesn't work in space, but we're not talking about whether it's actually "sound" that travels from the event to your ears, but whether an event is audible.


The two "oddball" ways for "sound" to propagate through space are electromagnetic radiation fronts of sufficient intensity, and gravitational waves of correct frequency and sufficient amplitude. If only there were events in the game that caused high-intensity bursts of radiation. Or things that regularly tore holes into space-time continuum.

The simplest and most likely way is for expanding cloud of gas and debris to impact with your ship's surface, which will generate a sound that you, inside the ship, will be able to perceive.



For example, a gunshot in vacuum could in theory cause an audible effect at close proximity as the expanding cloud of combustion gases bursts forth from the muzzle and starts to form an expanding cone. Some gas will also escape from the action of the gun.

The thing is, our ears are *ridiculously sensitive pressure instruments*. The actual pressure variations in normal sound are very, very small. If you're close enough to the muzzle or action of the firearm that the expanding gas front hits your helmet with a sufficient pressure (before dissipating too much), you'd probably hear that.

Scaling things up, if you have a multiple megaton explosion of a spaceship going on in relatively close proximity, and you're sitting in another space ship, odds are you could perceive a lot of that with your ears.



Also to stay on topic, the light beam/shadow effect becomes visible whenever enough small particles are available to scatter light. In empty space, not going to work. Particles don't need to be gas - more likely they would be solid, like dust, ice, or some other type of debris.

On the other hand, if there's something like a spacedock or installation with regular traffic, I wouldn't put it past it for a dust cloud to form around that orbital area. As an example, during the Apollo program, urine was dumped straight into space, and it formed a cloud of ice particles traveling along with the spacecraft.

Years of occupying a relatively static spot could conceivably cause a sufficient build-up of such particles for the light beam effect to occur.


So my personal opinion is that in addition to being toggleable from graphics options (for performance related reasons), it should be an environmental effect specified in the mission file. Deep space mission shouldn't have the effect. Near an industrial installation, in a planet's rings, or let's say near a comet? Bring it on.

[swashmebuckle]

I don't know no space physics but i knows what I likes and what I like is light shafts in the nebula and what I don't like is light shafts outside the nebula.

[AdmiralRalwood]

So my personal opinion is that in addition to being toggleable from graphics options (for performance related reasons), it should be an environmental effect specified in the mission file.

Code: [Select]

set-post-effect
- lightshafts
- 0


[Herra Tohtori]

You're saying it's already like that?!

Next you're going to tell me that there are things in the game that cause high-intensity bursts of radiation, or regularly tear holes into space-time continuum...


 

[Luis Dias]

  Yes, definitely it's the lightshafts that bring me out of the realism in FS...

[potterman28wxcv]

You're saying it's already like that?!

Next you're going to tell me that there are things in the game that cause high-intensity bursts of radiation, or regularly tear holes into space-time continuum...


 

I think Shivan portals are tearing holes in space-time continuum

[X3N0-Life-Form]

Code: [Select]

set-post-effect
- lightshafts
- 0


That's pretty much the route I went before the 2014 mvp release. I had my own post-processing table with lightshafts disabled, and only enabled them in neb missions & a couple others.

[BirdofPrey]

For the sound in space, I did read a post once that said that there could be speakers inside to ship to simulate shooting sounds, so that the pilots are more aware of what's going on around them.

Sounds like a Chris Roberts thing.  Dumb justification for something that doesn't need an explanation in the first place.

Except that explanation has been present since sci-fi games first had sound.

Sci-fi always works on the rule of cool.  Nebulas wouldn't actually be visible if you're inside them; those pretty colorful pictures you always see are false color images, they really look quite bland, and what you are seeing are usually multiple LY across, so they aren't actually that dense.  You'd also be lucky to see a ingle asteroid flying through an asteroid belt, even planetary rings aren't generally as dense as we see in visual media, so yeah, acceptable breaks from reality.

That said, I think the god rays and cast shadows should be an environment based effect, minimal to nonexistant in open space, but pretty and visible in nebulas and dust clouds and the like.

[The E]

Except that explanation has been present since sci-fi games first had sound.

Sci-fi always works on the rule of cool.  Nebulas wouldn't actually be visible if you're inside them; those pretty colorful pictures you always see are false color images, they really look quite bland, and what you are seeing are usually multiple LY across, so they aren't actually that dense.  You'd also be lucky to see a ingle asteroid flying through an asteroid belt, even planetary rings aren't generally as dense as we see in visual media, so yeah, acceptable breaks from reality.

Yes, and rule of cool says that if you want to hear lasers and explosions, you should hear lasers and explosions. Trying to explain it away via computer magic just opens up plotholes; As any UX designer would tell you, the last thing you want is big startling noises distracting you from the important things, which is what all the explosion sounds do. There are more informative ways to use audio cues, but they wouldn't feel right to us, which is why they aren't used.

[Luis Dias]

Having said that, I do think that a game that avoided all those sound cues, all those blasts having no sound whatsoever except when they hit your own ship, would also be awesome. I see a lot of possibilities here, but for christ sakes, this is Freespace, not a physics degree simulator!

[potterman28wxcv]

Having said that, I do think that a game that avoided all those sound cues, all those blasts having no sound whatsoever except when they hit your own ship, would also be awesome. I see a lot of possibilities here, but for christ sakes, this is Freespace, not a physics degree simulator!

Yeah, Freespace is more about cool and fun.

I used to play a space game (can't remember the name) where you could move in 4 dimensions instead of 3 ; the 4th dimension was represented by fade (the more fade there was, the more far you were from the target).
I think they tried to make it as realistic as possible, but it wasn't really fun because it was way too mind stretching to dogfight there. I would end up fighting almost exclusively in 3D hyperplanes. I used the 4th dimension axis only occasionnaly, when I could not avoid items in the 3D hyperspace. Fortunately for me, they didn't implement 4D rotations, or it would have been completely painful to fight against an AI that would master it

Freespace speeds are also not that realistic ;  in Earth's atmosphere, there's a speed limit due to air scrubbing your vessel. But in space, there should not be any kind of speed limit. But if the speed limit was removed it would be unplayable