Author Topic: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)  (Read 2415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
No idea if this is the right place to do this, but I finished my second playthrough of Derelict not long ago (and my first not too long before that), and there were some things that stuck out. Oh, and spoilers, if anyone cares.

First, it's very very good. Just wanted to get that out there.

Second, it's really not what I expected, mostly because I thought the title referred to the setting. Given the first mission or two, I thought it was going to be about pilots out in the middle of nowhere, with little advanced tech. You know, a sort of "derelict" area of space.

Now, I knew there was going to be something called the Nyarlathotep, obviously a Lovecraft reference, involved, due to seeing it mentioned on the wiki. Again, due to the first few missions, I thought the general thrust was going to be pilots disappearing and going crazy on the fringes of space, lots of weird psychological stuff, more dream sequences, and then maybe culminating in a small-scale but still terrifying Shivan attack that an ill-equipped force had to deal with.

I didn't really expect a slightly better-thought-out, but not quite as well voice-acted, version of the FS2 campaign. Not complaining, though, it was excellent. I mean, that's pretty much what it is, though. It's just FS2, but longer, more detailed, and more interesting. It lacks the epic quality of the retail campaign, though. Probably due to not actually having a budget.

Anyway, on to the only real problem. The writers seem to have vastly overestimated the power of the average Shivan warship. The GTVA would have wiped the floor with that fleet.

Remember, the only reason the Lucifer was ever an issue at all was because of its shield, which the Nyarlathotep doesn't have. Not only that, but it's implied that beam cannons would go right through it anyway. In fact, the Colossus was as I recall specifically designed to deal with Lucifer-types. As such, I only started to notice this when one of the briefings claimed that the Colossus, had it been there, would have lost to the Nyarla.

I mean, come on. Once they figured out a way around the shield, the Lucifer was taken out by like four wings of fighters. The thing just isn't that formidable. Even a single Sathanas juggernaut wasn't that big a deal during the Second Incursion; it just took a bit of firepower to deal with.

Now, I suppose that gameplay can't always be taken as canon, but it should still be noted that during the final mission, the Nyarla is usually half dead already by the time the Argentus gets there. Now, admittedly, this is a major flaw with the retail campaign as well; nobody ever thinks to just gather all their ships together and overwhelm the Shivans rather than setting up a ridiculous supership confrontation, but this is a bit more egregious, because it's just three destroyers, and a smattering of smaller ships. The GTVA has...I don't even know, but it's a lot more than that.

Oh, and the MT thing was never actually explained, although I suppose that's par for the course with Freespace.

Anyway, this has been all rambly and not really as well-put-together as I'd intended, so I'll stop.

 

Offline CT27

  • 211
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
Overall I loved Derelict.

However, one mission I was kind of disappointed in was the one where you have to protect the Cypher while it gets its engines repaired.  That wasn't the problem really, what I had issue with was actually the background fight.  The GTVA sends some destroyers to fight the Shivan fleet...head on?  They get the floor wiped with them.  The GTVA should have at least tried to attack from the sides there.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
There are two sometimes contradictory (but not always) approaches to viewing the Shivans in a lot of campaigns. One is as beings of incomprehensible power and ability. The other is as expressions of something vast and probably beyond us, but in individual terms they're our equals if not inferiors.

Derelict believes in the former, to a somewhat extreme degree.

In general I think you're right; FS1 and FS2 certainly presented The Shivans Plural as beings of vast and incomprehensible power, but the any particular Shivan ship was a problem that could be solved with sufficient application of tactical ingenuity and force. That said, the upgraded Derelict with MVP Lucifer and its enhanced beam armament does a much better job of selling the concept of the ship as powerful than the original did.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
Now, admittedly, this is a major flaw with the retail campaign as well; nobody ever thinks to just gather all their ships together and overwhelm the Shivans rather than setting up a ridiculous supership confrontation, but this is a bit more egregious, because it's just three destroyers, and a smattering of smaller ships.
Incidently, ambushing the super-ship with 3 destroyers is exactly what the GTVA tried to do in the retail campaign.
When that failed due to the Sath not buying it, they tried to blow up the Knossos.
When that also failed, they apparently tried to set up some sort of blockade at the Capella node.
When that fleet got decimated, then they sent in a bunch of bombers to weaken the Sathanas to set up the confrontation with the Colly.

Overall, I get the feeling that trying to jump something with overwhelming force is kind of a risky move in FS, as you run the risk of getting counter-jumped, such as Koth going after a Leviathan.

 

Offline Makhpella

  • 27
  • Kharak is burning!
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
Those smaller ships are scarier than even a Sathanas. Don't believe me? Ask the Carthage and Dashor. Admittedly, there were some bombers, but the wings that join them after the mission ends could've been called sooner.

On the Derelict topic, I also finished it yesterday (first playthrough). There were some things I didn't understand, but only one comes to mind right now. Those SJs in the Capella system. We all saw them jump out as the star was exploding, and I like to think that the ones that stayed behind would've been destroyed by the shockwave/radiation combo. On the other hand, in Derelict we're supposed to believe those juggernauts stayed there for 5 years doing what? Shooting up blips on the radar caused by EM interference?
'I'm from the marksman school of conversation.' -Kovacs

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
I think the implication there was that the Shivans would be able to send new forces back through Capella to GTVA space, not that the Shivans had been derping around in the newly-created nebula for a few years.  But hell, maybe that's how Shivans get down.

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
The GTVA sends some destroyers to fight the Shivan fleet...head on?  They get the floor wiped with them.  The GTVA should have at least tried to attack from the sides there.
You'd think the same in Slaying Ravana and Bearbaiting.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
The GTVA sends some destroyers to fight the Shivan fleet...head on?  They get the floor wiped with them.  The GTVA should have at least tried to attack from the sides there.
You'd think the same in Slaying Ravana and Bearbaiting.

The problem with this argument is that Slaying Ravana and Bearbaiting have taught them what not to do by the time of Derelict, yet they do it anyways.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
> shivans

> taught

dude check your anthropomorphism
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
> shivans

> taught

dude check your anthropomorphism

Check your reading comprehension. The post under discussion here?

The GTVA sends some destroyers to fight the Shivan fleet...head on?  They get the floor wiped with them.  The GTVA should have at least tried to attack from the sides there.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline CT27

  • 211
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
Two more minor disappointments (don't get the wrong idea, I still love the campaign):

1-I wish their would have been a little more conclusive end to the MT subplot

2-That meson cannon that was introduced towards the end was pretty cool; I wish we could have had it for more than one mission though before it went boom.

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
Re: Fifteen-year-late armchair review of Derelict (spoilers)
1-I wish their would have been a little more conclusive end to the MT subplot
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as Blackwater Operations is part of the same Cold Element setting as Derelict, it will follow up on the Morgan Technologies plotline.  Or at least that was the plan many (many) moons ago.

And just because I'm shocked that the search function worked well enough to find it, here's an ancient post from Kellan himself stating his own concept of what MT's motivations were.