Author Topic: Delenda Est (spoiler!)  (Read 40183 times)

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Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
This has probably been answered earlier in this topic, but has anyone checked which release candidate started having these problems? I'm not sure if RC1 is fully compatible with current BP releases, but RC2 at least is. Could someone playtest Delenda Est using RC2, 3 and 4 as well?

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Not again. This bug really got on my nerves when testing stuff for various mods I'm involved in.

 

Offline Alpha1

  • 25
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I had the same Problem - after ten attempts or so i made her survive.

 

Offline Cyborg17

  • 29
  • Life? Don't talk to me about life....
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
So, I cheat tested this mission a little bit, and I found that if only the Carthage was left, there would be no damage done to either the AO or Katana.

I know we were really distracted with a lot of different bugs, including the uberbombers, but looking through the mission myself, the likeliest cause of the Katana dying really fast is the fact that it's on Heavy Armor 100 the entire mission. 

Is there a specific balance reason why this was done before?  As things stand, balance is broken, and it would probably make the mission less grueling to add Heavy Armor 80 to the Katana right after it jumps in.  Although I haven't tried it yet, and I'm about to.


Also, on an unrelated note.  After closing and loading Freespace again, the Indus refused to take on its hull strength from the checkpoint data, strangely.  May just be my computer acting up.

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Oh brother.

We need to figure out whether this is a FRED bug or an AI bug in line with recent reports. This is a big deal.

This may or may not have something to do with why I could not beat Delenda Est (on Easy, no less) after around 40 attempts--including one instance in which I used cheats, and was rewarded by having the Imperiuse singling me out to snipe with one of its forward beam cannons from something like 6km away, instead of the Indus or Yangtze (or the other UEF ships; can't remember if they were still alive by that point). And here I was, thinking it impossible for a capital ship to target a fighter with its big beam cannons, no matter what, let alone under the circumstances. I think I was even "invincible" at the time, just to make it all the more insane.

Particularly of note was now either the Katana or Altan Orde would go down so quickly to a few cruisers that couldn't even effectively use their weapons, and had no fighter cover whatsoever (while our entire fighter force was still alive and kicking). Seeing this thread, I now wonder if it was at least partially due to the fact that these ships take way more damage than they should be, even potentially from friendly fire.
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Not sure about the weird beam behavior, but the mission is pretty much impossible on all difficulties exactly because the Katana and Altan Orde die no matter how leet you are at flying.

Then again, QD beat it, but he's also something of an FS dogfighter god.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I can't believe I haven't fixed this yet  :(

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Alright, gave Delenda Est a couple of runs in the pre and post update versions, and yeah, it's much easier pre-update.  Post-update, I have difficulty not losing the Indus in the opening shots between it and the first two Deimoses.  Also, uberbombers launching torpedoes every two seconds or so.  Then there's the Katana being made of nitroglycerin and old Soviet nuclear reactors.  Had to make the frigates invulnerable to actually finish.

Pre-update, the Indus comes through with around 30% health left (because I suck).  The biggest concern there is not losing the Katana to the Iolanthe and Deanira's beams.  Also, the Carthage's slashers don't fire at all, while they do post-update.

Everything after the Imperieuse arriving happens pretty much the same way, with the possible exception of the uberbombers (though the Boanerges is so pathetic I find myself thinking that's a good way of making it a credible threat).

Also, I have no idea what the hell the Carthage was doing. 



(pre-update)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 12:44:22 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Cyborg17

  • 29
  • Life? Don't talk to me about life....
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Exciting!  Progress?....  Something changed apparently.  :yes:

EDIT: Also, you mean that the update is the BP update and not a new executable right?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 07:31:38 pm by Cyborg17 »

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Not sure about the weird beam behavior, but the mission is pretty much impossible on all difficulties exactly because the Katana and Altan Orde die no matter how leet you are at flying.

Then again, QD beat it, but he's also something of an FS dogfighter god.

...I REALLY wish I knew this when attempting the mission a little while back. Would have saved me an infinite amount of frustration, and made the whole finale and ending of WiH-P1 SO much more enjoyable for me.

Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
You know, it just occurred to me that when the WiH update was released, a number of people noted the Akula rarely surviving its initial Deimos duel, despite, if memory serves, the roulette event being untouched. Think it could be related?

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Yeah. That really was a shame. Perhaps my best freespace memory of all time was Delenda Este and Sunglare at first release. Especially since I beat Delenda Este in one shot (by the skin of my teeth), which flows decidedly better than failing it 20 times in a row and skipping the mission.

(The one thing I've noticed regarding the new upgraded Karuna is that the model is actually mis-aligned with its higher LODs. Not sure if this could have balance ramificataions though)

 

Offline Black_Yoshi1230

  • 28
  • Fat and lazy glory hound, mooch, narcissist.
    • Black Yoshi's YouTube Page
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Not sure about the weird beam behavior, but the mission is pretty much impossible on all difficulties exactly because the Katana and Altan Orde die no matter how leet you are at flying.

Then again, QD beat it, but he's also something of an FS dogfighter god.

...I REALLY wish I knew this when attempting the mission a little while back. Would have saved me an infinite amount of frustration, and made the whole finale and ending of WiH-P1 SO much more enjoyable for me.


You're not the only one. My old Sidewinder got a bit of unnecessary abuse after I'm going "what the hell is going on" for nine times. Even lowering the difficulty on Very Easy didn't help. Anything with the later .14 RCs just makes it too bittersweet and forces you to work a bit too hard to earn an ending (the emotion I get is even more frustrating than playing an old console/arcade game with limited lives).

Even the Indus and Yangtze got one hell of a beating (16% and 34% respectively on Easy) when the first two GTVA corvettes made their runs. They may have regenerating AP (and I had to help with a Scalpel and Paveways), but it didn't matter jack squat compared to the Altan Orde and Katana. Even with the two prioritized targets down (split the work between myself and Beta), the Carthage or Systema ends up scoring a kill.

Just so I can probably avoid shooting myself in the kneecap... what was the last RC that made this mission not as painful as it currently is?
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Offline Klaustrophobia

  • 210
  • the REAL Nuke of HLP
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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
i think they all do is the problem.
I like to stare at the sun.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
This is why it's a bad idea to release an update that only works on dev builds.

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
In the mean time, I recall Ant8 working find with Delenda..

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
(The one thing I've noticed regarding the new upgraded Karuna is that the model is actually mis-aligned with its higher LODs. Not sure if this could have balance ramificataions though)
It's a known problem that shouldn't have any effect on gameplay except looking weird.

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Wouldn't it make some turrets misaligned, possibly making them fire into the hull?  Or does the game not factor in LOD geometry when calculating hits?

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
In the mean time, I recall Ant8 working find with Delenda..

So wait. So far we know/guess the following, right?
1. Original WiH release works fine with all builds to date, except Carthage flies backwards.
2. New WiH release breaks on most recent releases.
3. New WiH release works on Ant8.

So something in the new builds beyond Ant8 AND something in the new release are coming together and causing the problem?

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
lolwtf

Possibly a good next step would be copying the new Karuna into the old version and vice versa. If new Delenda Est becomes playable with the old Karuna, we know where the problem is. If any events in Delenda Est reference the rotator subsystem they'd have to be edited, but as far as I know the Karuna is otherwise a drop-in replacement.