Author Topic: High Poly Leviathan  (Read 65817 times)

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Offline Dragon

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It's not meant to look like the retail Leviathan, hammer that into your head.

Hammered that nail of a thought yet? Good. Now, let me explain my reasoning;

Based on the tech descriptions and the way I'm interpenetrating it, it's meant to be a more advanced Fenris, instead of being just a retrofit, it's a completely rebuilt vessel.
If it's not supposed to resemble retail Leviathan, only in higher quality, then it's not suited for mediavps. IMHO, if it doesn't look like a Leviathan, then it isn't a Leviathan, but something else, perhaps from the same manufacturer. I think that your model would look a bit out of place in FS1, and don't forget Leviathan comes from that era.

The Leviathan isn't much more advanced than Fenris, the main difference being increased armor and weapons (it's speed, on the other hand, suffers). It's clearly been made by re-designing the Fenris into defensive role, as evidenced by the FS1 tech description. It mentions "changes to Fenris" and the reason they were made being was the need for a defensive vessel. It's a defense oriented version of Fenris, nothing else. And it was build during T-V war, so I guess that it being a Fenris hull with more armor welded on would be quite likely.

Your model doesn't really look "though" nor "old-style" and departs from the original design so much that it could be another ship, inspired by Fenris/Leviathan design. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. The model itself is great, and I'm sure that it'd be useful. Just not as a replacement for the current HTL Leviathan, but rather as a different ship, very definitely FS2-era or later. It doesn't have the "used future" feel of most FS1 Terran ships. It's sleek, complex and rounded, which is exactly the opposite of FS1 Terran look.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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We are not going to have this argument again, are we?

This is obviously heading towards another split-lock unless you people figure out that you aren't changing any minds with this constant back and forth.

For the commentators: The most you can do is make your suggestions, hope they get implemented and move on regardless.

For the artists: The best thing you can do is take the suggestions that fit your vision and ignore the rest. Literally. You really don't need to make a post refuting every suggestion you disagree with. Just ignore them and keep going.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Are those engines? Why does it have more engines than the Fenris when it's slower?
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Offline Mongoose

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I can't say I'm entirely sold on the side-thrusters concept myself.  Besides its side profile and the radar dishes and such, I think one of the Fenris/Levi's key characteristics are the clean lines around the engine array.  I like the details within the engine opening proper, but at least to me, those tubes break up the flow of the ship's lines way too much.

 

Offline Rodo

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Are those engines? Why does it have more engines than the Fenris when it's slower?

mmm....cause it's heavier? :shaking:
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Offline Mars

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Because you're comparing the old Fenris model to the new Leviathan model.

 

Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Hmm, you know - I'd say this detail styling is getting closer to that of your medusa now, and that's a very good thing. :) Since I last saw it, you've replaced the curved top and bottom surface with a series of flat ones, so the cross-sectional shape of the engine block is no longer kinda lip-shaped, but is now more of a bevelled octagon - and I would say it looks hugely better for it. The engine block is DEFINITELY beginning to resemble an up-armoured Fenris. :D

I do have some suggestions here which I'll go through below with piccytures!

1) I really like the recessed and segmented look at the front of the block. It fits in fairly well with the original style there and just looks freaking cool. My suggestion is to take it a little further and add another plating segmentation line around the hull as I've drawn onto your pic. You may need to shift some details back a bit to make it work (or possibly squish the curved sections in front of the line forward a bit - whichever works).

2) The 3 little round things I reckon could easily be neat little escape pods if you haven't already intended them to be, and my initial thought was that although they definitely fit......at the same time something didn't feel quite right. Then I opened the current model and saw - the big lights! The lights are a very prominent feature of the fenris/levy (and they significantly affect how the ship looks in dark scenes), and so I think bringing them back would be really good. They also nicely frame and integrate the escape pod structures (plus they kinda make sense - ie, lights are where people are, escape pods are where people are).

3) Not really a model suggestion but still worth mentioning: the colours...or rather the tones of grey. These I think will play a major role with the feel of the aft section based on the texturing. If you imagine the 'flow' of the engine block is fore to aft, the darker recessed part on your model is flowing in more of an 'around' direction. The more contrast between the recessed section and the raised hull around it, the more the 'around' direction will become the dominant direction of the whole engine block, which I don't think works as well for the design of the ship. Currently style wise there are many prominent fore-aft lines over the whole design, with 'around' lines having a much less significant role.

So basically my suggestion here would be for whoever's texturing it to keep this contrast down to the kind of level pointed out in the current textures. Ie, there and visible, but not overpowering enough to change the flow of the engine section.

Finally, about the engine nozzles: to be honest I really really REALLY don't think they fit at all sorry. Normally I love circular engines - heck I stick them on most of my ships! Here though I think they do break the style very badly. The big one just isn't a good use of area on the rear facing part of the engine block and makes me think more of a 'rocket ship' than a 'warship'. The little ones...yes they make sense from a rotational point of view,... but they just look massively out of place.

Here's a side by side comparison: (Including the original too for fairness)


[V] tended to do either flat vents or round nozzles on terran ships. Hippocrates, iceni, elysium, colossus, deimos etc all have definite round nozzles. Other ships such as the fenris, orion, triton, hecate and aeolus have definite flat vent style engines. This effect I think has been lost a bit since retail, since our thruster effects currently favour round nozzles, spewing huge amounts of glowey stuff backwards. Originally they just kinda glowed and flickered.

Style-wise the vent style engines are much more suited to this kind of glow: http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/b/b6/MyancientshipOrion_2.JPG
Not entirely sure how we could achieve that but I'm sure it's not far off if not already possible.
So yeah - I'd really strongly urge you to reconsider doing a vent style. It doesn't have to be just a grating like the current fenris model (which is actually a stolen section of the faustus' solar panel :p ), but you can definitely make some interesting engine-y structures that don't look like round nozzles. :)
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Offline Crybertrance

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I have to agree with Vasudan Admiral. At least with the engine part. Sorry Hades, on any other ship they would look nice, but on a leviathan they look completely out of place, especially the small ones. :nervous:
<21:08:30>   Hartzaden fires a slammer at Cybertrance
<21:09:13>   Crybertrance pops flares, but wonders how Hartzaden acquired aspect lock on a stealth fighter... :\
<21:11:58>   *** The_E joined #bp [email protected]
21:11:58   +++ ChanServ has given op to The_E
<21:12:58>   Hartzaden continues to paint crybertrance and feeding the info to a wing of gunships
<21:14:07>   Crybertrance sends emergency "IM GETING MY ASS KICKED HERE!!!!eleventy NEED HELPZZZZ" to 3rd fleet command
<21:14:50>   Hartzaden jamms the transmission.
<21:14:51>   The_E explodes the sun

 

Offline Ulala

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*shrug* I think it looks cool. But I guess I can see where the purists are coming from. ;)
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Offline Dragon

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I don't think we could talk about "purism" at this point. A little artistic liberty is always nice, but one should make sure that the ship resembles the original in some way, that's all.
TBH, the model is amazing and I think it actually looks somewhat better than the original Leviathan. It's in different style and much more modern than the Leviathan, which may be a good thing.
On the other hand, I don't think this should be in Mediavps. It has too many changes to believably be used as a HTL Leviathan. It just doesn't look like one, and TBH, never really did. Leviathan Mk.2 or GTC Garm, perhaps, but not the original, FS1-era Leviathan. Too many curves, too different detail layout, especially regarding the thrusters.
In short, it looks cool, it's really high-poly and overall, awesome. It just isn't the Leviathan.

 

Offline Crybertrance

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On the other hand, I don't think this should be in Mediavps. It has too many changes to believably be used as a HTL Leviathan. It just doesn't look like one, and TBH, never really did. Leviathan Mk.2 or GTC Garm, perhaps, but not the original, FS1-era Leviathan. Too many curves, too different detail layout, especially regarding the thrusters.
In short, it looks cool, it's really high-poly and overall, awesome. It just isn't the Leviathan.

Exactly...
<21:08:30>   Hartzaden fires a slammer at Cybertrance
<21:09:13>   Crybertrance pops flares, but wonders how Hartzaden acquired aspect lock on a stealth fighter... :\
<21:11:58>   *** The_E joined #bp [email protected]
21:11:58   +++ ChanServ has given op to The_E
<21:12:58>   Hartzaden continues to paint crybertrance and feeding the info to a wing of gunships
<21:14:07>   Crybertrance sends emergency "IM GETING MY ASS KICKED HERE!!!!eleventy NEED HELPZZZZ" to 3rd fleet command
<21:14:50>   Hartzaden jamms the transmission.
<21:14:51>   The_E explodes the sun

 

Offline Hades

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On the other hand, I don't think this should be in Mediavps. It has too many changes to believably be used as a HTL Leviathan. It just doesn't look like one, and TBH, never really did. Leviathan Mk.2 or GTC Garm, perhaps, but not the original, FS1-era Leviathan. Too many curves, too different detail layout, especially regarding the thrusters.
In short, it looks cool, it's really high-poly and overall, awesome. It just isn't the Leviathan.
That's the point, it's meant to look different because the Leviathan used the exact same model as the Fenris in retail. I'll mess with the thrusters/engines, that's for sure (and only because VA gave constructive criticism here).
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Offline The E

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I am very sorry, Dragon, but there's nothing in the Leviathan's tech description that would rule out a redesign like the one Hades is producing.

Also, several points. 1) You have made your point that this is in your opinion not a "real" replacement for the Leviathan several times over. We know by now how you feel about the issue. Continuing to reiterate your position will not help you. You have made your point, now let us continue in peace.
2) So far, we (as FSU) have not made a decision whether to include this model in the mvps or not. Until it is finished, we will not make one.
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Offline Dragon

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It's just that every time I posted, I found some other thing that, in my eyes, reinforced my opinion (except maybe the last one).
I think that I might leave it alone until the model progresses further, then only focus on the artistic side of things.
Quote
That's the point, it's meant to look different because the Leviathan used the exact same model as the Fenris in retail.
I can see the "HTLing philosophy" you're following with this design. My posts were made with that in mind.

 

Offline The E

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Quote
It's just that every time I posted, I found some other thing that, in my eyes, reinforced my opinion (except maybe the last one).

That does not mean you have to post the same thing over and over again.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline FSW

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I quite like it so far.

If there's something I'd change, it's the extra thruster nozzles. They look a bit out of place on the rim of the engine pod. I prefer the more subtle look of the four ancillary nozzles in this older image.

I'm looking forward to flying around this in game!

 
I don't know how far you are into the main body, but if it's not too late, consider squashing the front a bit. It might give the ship a slightly more dynamic and aggressive stance.

edit: it's an animated gif, the first frame is what you have right now, second frame is the suggested modification

[attachment deleted by a basterd]

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Is it going to have one thruster point in the back or 9?
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Offline Alan Bolte

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Style-wise the vent style engines are much more suited to this kind of glow: http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/b/b6/MyancientshipOrion_2.JPG
Not entirely sure how we could achieve that but I'm sure it's not far off if not already possible.
Hmm. I wonder if you could skip the standard thruster effect altogether and just use a glowmap with the "$thruster particles" table entry using something hazy like a nebula poof of the same color as the glowmap.
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