Author Topic: New Features for POF Version 3000 [FS2 = Version 2117]  (Read 21423 times)

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Offline aldo_14

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
Quote
Originally posted by TurboNed


But there could be an array of arrays of arrays of arrays to make a much larger number of "cells," right?  (for future POF formats)

  --TurboNed


The array size is based on the max register size of a 32-bit machine.  whilst you can sort of synthesize larger numbers through exponentials and additional integer value, it impacts on perfromance.  I think I have some C code from last year that does this, but I'll be damned if I can find it.  Something to do with bit-packing a communications stream IIRC.

 

Offline Bobboau

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
but why,
why in the name of hades would you want an aray that big

but anyway were getting a bit off topic,
so is the turret thing setteled, the new soft turrets are in?

what else do we need before the basic outline of the engine gets put together

I want Geo-mod (or something just like it with a diferent name), this is more of an engine thing and we don't realy need to add anything to the POF for it, I'll post in the other thread about this

animations,
could we get full keyframe animation in addition to the logical scripted animations that has already been mentioned, might not be necisary if the scripted animations are comprehensive enough
make sure the lights have a parent object so they can be animated with there parent as well as by them selves,
there sould be a default on or off thing for lights, also for animation

OH OH particle emitters !!!
:jaw:
oh yes that would be just SO very very sweet
look at the values you can set in red faction for it's particle emiters, be sure to include an on and off distance so we can make LODs (if you get farther away swich to a diferen't emiter with lower res textures and fewer particles), colision ditection would be usefull in a few instances
we must have particle emiters
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Offline Kazan

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
Bobboau - the array _isn't_ that big.. but it _can_ _be_

it starts out with a "base value" [100 i think is what i set] then as it needs to resize it doubles it size

so it goes
100
200
400
800
1600
3200..

when it's finished it sizes to exactly the correct size

and instead of using item by item copy it copies memory blocks [ which is a high speed, low processing operation instead of a low speed, high processing operation]
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Offline Bobboau

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
well ok, it was just a realy big number, I was just saying it souldn't be a problem

well what about particle emiters
I want my particle emiters :nod:
I must have particle emiters :mad:
I will have particle emiters :headz:
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Offline LtNarol

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
i still say sequenceable explosions, but i also like the ideas for running lights and atmopheric combat...also be really nice if you could have more than one dockpoitn working at a time.

On note of the engine itself, be really cool if it could support animated backgrounds (spinning plannets)

 

Offline Bobboau

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
well you can make a scripted death animation, this would probly be more of an engine thing than what data would be needed in the pof
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Offline daveb

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
This is all blue sky, but :

If I were you guys, I'd scrap the whole concept of POF-style files altogether. They're way old fashioned and have some pretty sharp limitations.

One sort of off-topic thing I'd suggest about this whole FSF thing - if you really want to get some kind of measurable satisfying progress - scope the sucker down. At the rate this whole operation is exploding with Grand Design you'll achieve nothing. Set a 3 month goal to have a keyboard controlled, low-poly ship running in a window using OpenGL on windows. Simple as that. I'd suggest checking out http://www.gamedev.net. There's a lot of guys full of hot-air on the forums over there (but hey, one could say the same thing about here too ;) ) - _but_ they have lots of useful getting-your-basic-game-up-and-running sorts of material.

I'd be more than happy to give advice (advice is the easy part when you're an armchair game designer).  :)

 

Offline Bobboau

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
I think that is a good time table for a basic rendering engine, Kaz already has a half complete openGL rendering code in his latest version of PCS. so I think as a starting point if we get something that behaves like a game with a three poly ship and none of the frills in three months, I will be impressed. but as I understand it you need to plan out all the stuff you might want in you're engine before you wright the first line of code wether or not it's defanantly gona be in it in the end (thinks of all the hidden quasi-code in the FS2 engine like when you name a ship planet, or the ssm)

of corse we would get quite a head start if we could get the FS source :D :ha:
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Offline EdrickV

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
Quote
If I were you guys, I'd scrap the whole concept of POF-style files altogether. They're way old fashioned and have some pretty sharp limitations.


Seems to me I heard someone say basically the same thing about the AVI format. And it's even older. :) Besides, what we're wanting to use are POF3 files, (As I'm calling them.) with loading/converting support for the older files. Assuming PCS translates at least part of a POF file into plain text, an interesting idea might be to make a version of PCS with an extra tab and a multi-line text box for putting arbitrary POF3 data in while experimenting with the format, at least until the POF3 specs are finalized. Assuming we get far enough along for making POF3 models to be an issue. :)
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Offline Bobboau

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
anyway, what sort of limitations, and what would you recomend we do
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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
....if we get something that behaves like a game with a three poly ship and none of the frills in three months, I will be impressed.



/me tries to imagine a three-poly ship and finds it VERY difficult...seems to remember something about the minimum number of faces a closed object needs in the dimensions it occupies is one greater than the number of dimensions.

for example: a point has one point in 0D space
a line has two points in 1D space
a triangle has three lines in 2D space
a tetrahedron has four triangular faces in 3D space
a hypertetrahedron has five tetrahedral faces in 4D space (okay, I'm taking a wild guess at that one, I honestly haven't a clue)

Anyway, sorry for the derailment, but I simply had to say something that has a chance of making me appear intelligent to the ignorant masses (I hope some ignorant masses read in this forum for me to have not wasted my efforts)

  --TurboNed

Edit: I agree with the spirit of what Bob's said, though...completely.  I do want this project to take off, but I'll be impressed once I see real work being done.
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Offline Bobboau

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
you know as soon as i said that I had the same thought
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Offline Grey Wolf

New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
You need at least 4 polys. That'll form a triangular-based pyramid.
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Offline CP5670

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
Quote
a hypertetrahedron has five tetrahedral faces in 4D space (okay, I'm taking a wild guess at that one, I honestly haven't a clue)


That's quite true, actually. ;)

 

Offline Kazan

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
hey thanks for the input dave.  You're very welcome to code for us if you'd like [as a non-official function of course] or tell us anything you wanted to do in the origional FS2 engine

as for 'get a function one with keyboard support in three months' - I could get an unoptimized OpenGL rendering a ship with keyboard control in not to long using OpenIL [Open Image Library] and the SDL. .. i have a  half-way completely POF renderer already, and it wouldn't be difficult to remove the GLUT code and replace it with SDL code
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Offline Nico

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
hey thanks for the input dave.  You're very welcome to code for us if you'd like [as a non-official function of course] or tell us anything you wanted to do in the origional FS2 engine

as for 'get a function one with keyboard support in three months' - I could get an unoptimized OpenGL rendering a ship with keyboard control in not to long using OpenIL [Open Image Library] and the SDL. .. i have a  half-way completely POF renderer already, and it wouldn't be difficult to remove the GLUT code and replace it with SDL code


for DaveB: I doubt you would help in any way ( you have a job after all :p ), but if thanx to some incredible odd you could, I know you don't like Kazan, so consider helping the project, not him... If you could and didn't want just because of him, that would be sad :(
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Offline Kazan

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New Features for POF Version 3000 (for FSF) [FS2 = Version 2117]
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« Last Edit: April 19, 2002, 08:27:23 pm by 30 »
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